Dubya or Clinton? Who "deserves"....

Trash Can · 08-08-2001, 11:44 AM

the most compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for what he is, or rather, for what he does, believes, and says????
Does you "deserve" it and the other not?
Is one EVIL, and the other "misunderstood"?
Does "intellect" matter more than "morality"? Or vice versa?
Is a liar truley a liar ONLY IF his lies are discovered?
Is being a slave to sexual "fixes" worse than being a slave to "big money"? Are one or both slaves to both??
Does Clinton's sins make Dubya's sins permisable? And vice versa.
Does any of it matter?

Trash Can · 08-08-2001, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Does you "deserve" it and the other not?
B]

..I speek inglish good.

"Does ONE deserve it and the other not."

Please forgive me.

Like O2 · 08-08-2001, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trash Can:
Does one "deserve" it and the other not?

Is one EVIL, and the other "misunderstood"?

Is being a slave to sexual "fixes" worse than being a slave to "big money"?

Yes

Yes

Yes

Like O2 · 08-08-2001, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trash Can:
Does any of it matter?

No

hermes · 08-08-2001, 10:36 PM

Also, let's not forget that Forgiving sins and excusing sins are two different things entirely

------------------
Steve
SAME OLD STORY- Hardcore American Comedy

pub crawler · 08-09-2001, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trash Can:
[Dubya or Clinton? Who "deserves"] the most compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for what he is, or rather, for what he does, believes, and says????

Of course, neither is more deserving of forgiveness than the other, all things being equal.

Quote:

Is one EVIL, and the other "misunderstood"?

Hmmm, well the Republican President is sometimes characterized by Democrats as "evil," so I'll assume the word "evil" in your query refers to Bush and the word "misunderstood" refers to the way Clinton is sometimes characterized, usually by Democrats.

I'm not excited about Bush as a President, but I'll admit it's probably not fair to call him "evil," even though I don't protest too much when people call him that.

Clinton? I don't have any complaints about the man.

Quote:

Does "intellect" matter more than "morality"? Or vice versa?

Okay, again reading between the lines, I'll assume we're talking about the characterization of Bush as dumb and of Clinton as immoral.

I'm not a Bush supporter but I think most of the "Bush is an idiot" stuff is empty, if not mean-spirited rhetoric. Hey, we humans like to beat up our enemies, don't we?

As far as the morality question and it's relevance to Clinton, if during his presidency it was revealed that he formerly was a bank robber, then I would have had serious questions about his character.

In actuality, it was revealed that, while in office, he received oral sex from an intern.

In my opinion Clinton's fling with Monica had nothing to do with his performance as President. It was embarrassing for him, yes, but inconsequential as far as National Security was concerned.

We ain't gonna lose a war because Clinton's gettin' a hummer.

The beating that Clinton took in the press was merely the Republicans taking their turn at calling the "other side's" President "evil." Currently with Bush, the Democrats are taking their turn. It's all quite absurd.

Quote:

Is a liar truley a liar ONLY IF his lies are discovered?

If I'm understanding the reference here, this presumes that Clinton's sexual escapades with Monica had something to do with his running of the country.

Quote:

Is being a slave to sexual "fixes" worse than being a slave to "big money"?

No.

Quote:

Are one or both slaves to both??

I couldn't say.

Quote:

Does Clinton's sins make Dubya's sins permisable? And vice versa.

No.

Quote:

Does any of it matter?

It's hard to say. I don't know.

------------------
-pub

Salome · 08-09-2001, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trash Can:
[Dubya or Clinton? Who "deserves"] the most compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for what he is, or rather, for what he does, believes, and says????

neither one

Quote:

Is one EVIL, and the other "misunderstood"?

both are misunderstood

Quote:

Does "intellect" matter more than "morality"? Or vice versa?

intellect,
even if you lack morality yourself, your intellect can tell you what's best for the people in your country

Quote:

Is a liar truley a liar ONLY IF his lies are discovered?

a liar is always a liar
both men are liars: it's in the job description (it's the same anywhere in the world)

Quote:

Is being a slave to sexual "fixes" worse than being a slave to "big money"?

no

Quote:

Are one or both slaves to both??

both are slaves

Quote:

Does Clinton's sins make Dubya's sins permisable? And vice versa.

no

Quote:

Does any of it matter?

no

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

Trash Can · 08-09-2001, 11:41 AM

Wellllllllllll, I guess as hard as I try, I can't completely "shake" the political beliefs (lies?) I grew up with.
I was taught that Democrats were good. Republicans - bad. Democrats for the little man; the poor; the black, brown, and "yellow" ("Asian". "Yellow" may not be PC). Republicans for the rich and powerful, and white.
Note my reply at the end of this thread: http://www.u2news.com/u2feedback/For...ML/000534.html

Whether thats true or not, I have come to a some conclusions: It is NOT that "Black and white". Both parties lie. Both are ruled by power, greed and money. There is NO "noble" cause. NONE. Everyone has an agenda... most times the goal is to achieve the agenda at any cost, no matter who or what is harmed, destroyed, or murdered. And the most important thing is "image". Sell it to Mr. & Mrs. Joe Blow. Whether its to offer some token tax return, or move into a Harlem office to be with the "real people".
There is NO "Mr. Smith" going to Washington.
Whether one gets oral sex (AND it IS "sex"!)in the oval office and then LIES about it under oath --- Which IS the one true and ONLY fact that should lead to any sort of impeachment process, "lying under oath"!--- Or whether one is a puppet, "carried" into the Oval Office by his Party, his father, and Big Oil and special interests; when it is clear that he has NO business being there....

awwww, it all sucks, folks.
Wake up.
We've replaced the "Pervert & Liar", with the "Dimwit & Liar".
I just thank God that our Gov't does have "checks & balances"... for the most part, and is NOT a Monarchy or Dictatorship.

ANYWAYYYYYY... whew, I feel better. Nothing like a short stint on the 'ol soap box to stroke the ol' ego.

Pray... and hope.

Peace.

80sU2isBest · 08-09-2001, 05:28 PM

Jiminy Cricket, what a pessimistic attitude. TC, there are still good politicians left. And Dubya is a good man. And so was Jimmy Carter.

U2Bama · 08-09-2001, 05:43 PM

He lusts in his heart.

80sU2isBest · 08-09-2001, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2Bama:
He lusts in his heart.

Ha! I remember that!

melon · 08-10-2001, 05:30 AM

I don't trust Republicans in matters of economics, foreign policy, domestic policy, or morality.

I don't trust Democrats in matters of morality.

See...it's all a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. If you are expecting perfection, don't even go to church, because even the ministers are imperfect.

Melon

------------------
�Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality.� - Hui-neng (638-713)

melon · 08-10-2001, 05:41 AM

Trash Can,

Your observations on Democrats--working class, poor, etc.--ran into trouble starting with the Reagan era. He successfully ran a propaganda campaign to make the word, 'liberal,' an incredibly dirty word. Ever since, Democrats have been, what I would say, 'leftist centrist rightists.'

Clinton, by all accounts, was not a liberal. His economic policy approach was very moderate Republican in nature. His social policy was very moderate Democrat in nature as well. Clinton was a great centrist, needless to say. It was very necessary, as we were coming out of a very conservative twelve years, and an extremist transition would not have bade well for our nation.

Of course, now we do have Mr. Bush, Jr. in office, who is as conservative as Reagan in many regards, but does not have nearly the success Reagan had in courting the media. Plus, the 50-49-1 Senate is not as friendly to Bush's extreme policies as he would like. The silver lining to it all? The resistance to the White House's conservatism is fairly high, paving the way for the Democrats to return to a more traditionally liberal base, as is evidenced by some of the bills that the Democratic-led Senate have passed, knowing full well that the White House will likely want to veto it.

The bad news? Nader and his allies are not likely to fade away, and--like him or not--he will split the Democratic vote in the next election, like how Perot split the Republican vote in 1992 and 1996. Naderites had better keep that in mind for the future election, and I do expect the Democratic candidate for President in 2004 to expouse a more liberal agenda, whether it be Gore (who I know is more liberal than he tried to let on in the last election) or someone else.

The point? It's not clear cut at all.

Melon

------------------
�Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality.� - Hui-neng (638-713)

z edge · 08-11-2001, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trash Can:
[
I just thank God that our Gov't does have "checks & balances"... for the most part, and is NOT a Monarchy or Dictatorship.

[/B]

Don't you mean MONICA and DICTATORSHIP ??

z edge · 08-11-2001, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
.

See...it's all a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. If you are expecting perfection, don't even go to church, because even the ministers are imperfect.

Melon

Pretty good statement there Melon. If it wasn't for my old neighbor ,who is a fanatical religious freak, I would go to church more often. He is one of those people who is off the deep end and drives people away from GOD.

He judged me on a continual basis, told people I was a "demon" because I drink and have women stay the night at my house.

"..judge not lest ye be judged.."

AMEN

Trash Can · 08-13-2001, 05:15 PM

..."Jiminy Crickets"!!!!????

okayyyyyyyyyyyyy.

I don't have faith in politicians. Nope.
Not in Dubya, Bubba, or Ralph. ( In fact, it is because of Nader, that I feel we did not get the lesser of two evils this past election! Dubya should reward Nader with some cushy diplomatic position.)

I only have faith in God. He is perfection. He will not fail me. I know His one and only agenda.

Everyone else, is human and prone to fail (As I fail), be it the Pope, Rush Limbaugh, and definately Dubya.

08-08-2001, 11:44 AM	#1
Trash Can Acrobat Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 399 Local Time: 04:04 PM	Dubya or Clinton? Who "deserves".... the most compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for what he is, or rather, for what he does, believes, and says???? Does you "deserve" it and the other not? Is one EVIL, and the other "misunderstood"? Does "intellect" matter more than "morality"? Or vice versa? Is a liar truley a liar ONLY IF his lies are discovered? Is being a slave to sexual "fixes" worse than being a slave to "big money"? Are one or both slaves to both?? Does Clinton's sins make Dubya's sins permisable? And vice versa. Does any of it matter? __________________

08-13-2001, 05:15 PM	#16
Trash Can Acrobat Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 399 Local Time: 04:04 PM	..."Jiminy Crickets"!!!!???? okayyyyyyyyyyyyy. I don't have faith in politicians. Nope. Not in Dubya, Bubba, or Ralph. ( In fact, it is because of Nader, that I feel we did not get the lesser of two evils this past election! Dubya should reward Nader with some cushy diplomatic position.) I only have faith in God. He is perfection. He will not fail me. I know His one and only agenda. Everyone else, is human and prone to fail (As I fail), be it the Pope, Rush Limbaugh, and definately Dubya. __________________

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08-08-2001, 10:36 PM	#5
hermes Acrobat Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: a blank page Posts: 360 Local Time: 04:04 PM	Also, let's not forget that Forgiving sins and excusing sins are two different things entirely ------------------ Steve SAME OLD STORY- Hardcore American Comedy

08-09-2001, 11:41 AM	#8
Trash Can Acrobat Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 399 Local Time: 04:04 PM	Wellllllllllll, I guess as hard as I try, I can't completely "shake" the political beliefs (lies?) I grew up with. I was taught that Democrats were good. Republicans - bad. Democrats for the little man; the poor; the black, brown, and "yellow" ("Asian". "Yellow" may not be PC). Republicans for the rich and powerful, and white. Note my reply at the end of this thread: http://www.u2news.com/u2feedback/For...ML/000534.html Whether thats true or not, I have come to a some conclusions: It is NOT that "Black and white". Both parties lie. Both are ruled by power, greed and money. There is NO "noble" cause. NONE. Everyone has an agenda... most times the goal is to achieve the agenda at any cost, no matter who or what is harmed, destroyed, or murdered. And the most important thing is "image". Sell it to Mr. & Mrs. Joe Blow. Whether its to offer some token tax return, or move into a Harlem office to be with the "real people". There is NO "Mr. Smith" going to Washington. Whether one gets oral sex (AND it IS "sex"!)in the oval office and then LIES about it under oath --- Which IS the one true and ONLY fact that should lead to any sort of impeachment process, "lying under oath"!--- Or whether one is a puppet, "carried" into the Oval Office by his Party, his father, and Big Oil and special interests; when it is clear that he has NO business being there.... awwww, it all sucks, folks. Wake up. We've replaced the "Pervert & Liar", with the "Dimwit & Liar". I just thank God that our Gov't does have "checks & balances"... for the most part, and is NOT a Monarchy or Dictatorship. ANYWAYYYYYY... whew, I feel better. Nothing like a short stint on the 'ol soap box to stroke the ol' ego. Pray... and hope. Peace.

08-09-2001, 05:28 PM	#9
80sU2isBest Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 4,970 Local Time: 11:04 AM	Jiminy Cricket, what a pessimistic attitude. TC, there are still good politicians left. And Dubya is a good man. And so was Jimmy Carter.

08-09-2001, 05:43 PM	#10
U2Bama Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine Posts: 3,405 Local Time: 11:04 AM	He lusts in his heart.

08-10-2001, 05:30 AM	#12
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ásgarðr Posts: 11,789 Local Time: 12:04 PM	I don't trust Republicans in matters of economics, foreign policy, domestic policy, or morality. I don't trust Democrats in matters of morality. See...it's all a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils. If you are expecting perfection, don't even go to church, because even the ministers are imperfect. Melon ------------------ �Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality.� - Hui-neng (638-713)

08-10-2001, 05:41 AM	#13
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ásgarðr Posts: 11,789 Local Time: 12:04 PM	Trash Can, Your observations on Democrats--working class, poor, etc.--ran into trouble starting with the Reagan era. He successfully ran a propaganda campaign to make the word, 'liberal,' an incredibly dirty word. Ever since, Democrats have been, what I would say, 'leftist centrist rightists.' Clinton, by all accounts, was not a liberal. His economic policy approach was very moderate Republican in nature. His social policy was very moderate Democrat in nature as well. Clinton was a great centrist, needless to say. It was very necessary, as we were coming out of a very conservative twelve years, and an extremist transition would not have bade well for our nation. Of course, now we do have Mr. Bush, Jr. in office, who is as conservative as Reagan in many regards, but does not have nearly the success Reagan had in courting the media. Plus, the 50-49-1 Senate is not as friendly to Bush's extreme policies as he would like. The silver lining to it all? The resistance to the White House's conservatism is fairly high, paving the way for the Democrats to return to a more traditionally liberal base, as is evidenced by some of the bills that the Democratic-led Senate have passed, knowing full well that the White House will likely want to veto it. The bad news? Nader and his allies are not likely to fade away, and--like him or not--he will split the Democratic vote in the next election, like how Perot split the Republican vote in 1992 and 1996. Naderites had better keep that in mind for the future election, and I do expect the Democratic candidate for President in 2004 to expouse a more liberal agenda, whether it be Gore (who I know is more liberal than he tried to let on in the last election) or someone else. The point? It's not clear cut at all. Melon ------------------ �Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality.� - Hui-neng (638-713)