Don't ask - Don't tell - RIP - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2008, 06:01 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You are...

And I could care less what MLK's neice says...

And I could also care less about your SPECULATIONS of what MLK would feel or believe. You have nothing to base your speculations on, therefore you're just reaching and projecting your own beliefs.
Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.
__________________

financeguy is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:29 PM   #22
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:35 PM
I understood BVS' point to be that it can be inspiring and psychologically beneficial for gay people to see examples of highly regarded, admired 'out' gay people from all walks of life, just as it's inspiring for women and black people to have such models. That despite very real continued prejudices in certain arenas, all kinds of possibilities are still open to you. To identify those sorts of common themes in three different historically disadvantaged groups' experiences is obviously not to say that their struggles are exactly the same in all regards, or that people from one group don't enjoy advantages relative to the others in certain situations. The main difference with this particular situation (gay military people who gave their lives in service) is that gay is an identity which can be concealed, whereas blackness and femaleness can't be concealed. But there's no reason why it should be concealed, and Major Rogers' own history of campaigning against DADT as a gay man certainly suggests he didn't think it should be.
Quote:
the leader of the African-American gay community
Did they all get together and have an election or something?

Yes, black ministers and black people, like white ministers and white people, can be homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic etc.--just as gay men can be sexist, women racist etc.--which shouldn't surprise anyone; those prejudices are all historically present in mainstream American culture after all, and no one lives under a rock.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:29 PM   #23
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.
I understand that, but honestly that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

There were many black men that didn't agree with women's rights, and many women that didn't believe in race equality, does that somehow weaken the argument? No.
BVS is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:44 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,324
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I say he's moved on to greater things and if he did look down on us he would wonder why you're so angry and tell you not to be-that life is too short

Cut the crap diamond. Because "you don't" I am "angry". Some things are well worth getting "angry" about. Stick to the topic and please leave your assessments of my emotional state out of it-and you have done that numerous times.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:49 PM   #25
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I think if MLK were alive today he wouldn't support the gay movement,


I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
martha is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 07:49 PM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha




I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
Clearly she did not know the guy!!!!!


On a side note, my point for the thread is that it should not matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be who you are and be able to serve in the military. Period.

I wonder if the soldiers he saved worried that it was a gay soldier that saved him. And all this talk that he was not open about his gayness - is shite - because he had to HIDE who he was to serve.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 07:58 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Clearly she did not know the guy!!!!!


On a side note, my point for the thread is that it should not matter what your sexual orientation is, you should be who you are and be able to serve in the military. Period.

I wonder if the soldiers he saved worried that it was a gay soldier that saved him. And all this talk that he was not open about his gayness - is shite - because he had to HIDE who he was to serve.
Matt-

Another thing about this story is, as far as I can tell this soldier--and please correct me if I'm wrong , -he unknowling step on an IED.

If this is the real case, then this would be different if a gay soldier were to push to straight soldiers out of the way from a live gernade, so for clarification's sake-please give us the actual account. What actually happened?

From researching this story all I see thus far is that he unknowling lost his life, which is still a great sacrafice to his country, so please clarify about what actually happened.

thx,

<>
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:01 PM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You are...

And I could care less what MLK's neice says...

And I could also care less about your SPECULATIONS of what MLK would feel or believe. You have nothing to base your speculations on, therefore you're just reaching and projecting your own beliefs.
Show us where Dr King supported homosexual relations and abortion on demand.

dbs
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:42 PM   #29
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 01:35 PM
/
martha is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:43 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha




I'm glad you can channel Dr. King. You should have a reality show about it.

You do know that Mrs. King fully supported gay marriage, right?
Never claimed that, although one can pore over his sermons and get a clear idea of what he believed.

Last time I checked Corretta King wasn't an ordained minister and didn't support gay marriage when the Rev was alive.
Let me know if I'm mistaken on that one.

Quote:
Actually, there's a fair degree of evidence backing up Diamond's point that many African American Ministers disagree with the gay rights movement trying to align themselves with the struggles of Black Americans in the past.

Now his neice Dr. Alveda King is a ordained minister and is alive.

http://www.kingforamerica.com/

I will take her word on her interpretation of Dr King's teachings over the wistful thinkers of FYM.

<>
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:14 PM   #31
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:35 PM
This is getting a bit ridiculous...you're the one who dragged out the topic of "what would MLK have thought about all this" with your "I think if MLK were alive today he wouldn't support the gay movement, nor abortion on demand and backhand Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and call them out for being poverty pimps that they are, dividing America and rebuke them for attempting to pervert his cause and mission" then on through all this stuff about his niece. Who cares what King might or might not have thought about gay people at the time, or what he might think if still alive today? MLK was a great leader in the fight against racial segregation, not an infallible all-purpose dowser's wand for The Right Answer on any and every social justice issue that might move to the fore at some particular point in time. And even if he were that, he's dead now and has been for 40 years. No one should need to know his precise stance on whatever topic in order to form--and defend--a stance of their own.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:29 PM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,786
Local Time: 04:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

Quote:
Bayard Rustin (March 17, 1912 – August 24, 1987) was an American civil rights activist, important largely behind the scenes in the civil rights movement of the 1960s and earlier, and principal organizer of the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. He counseled Martin Luther King, Jr. on the techniques of nonviolent resistance. Rustin was openly gay and advocated on behalf of gay and lesbian causes in the latter part of his career.

A year before his death in 1987, Rustin said: "The barometer of where one is on human rights questions is no longer the black community, it's the gay community. Because it is the community which is most easily mistreated."
melon is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:30 PM   #33
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,856
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I think if MLK were alive today he wouldn't support the gay movement,


funny, his wife does.

and finishing the thread, i see this has been mentioned. and the response was expectedly nonsensical.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:46 PM   #34
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland


Did they all get together and have an election or something?

Yes. We met last week.

maycocksean is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:48 PM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Diamond,

What's your take on Rev. King's views of marital faithfulness?

Just sayin. . .

Nobody's perfect.
maycocksean is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:08 PM   #36
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




funny, his wife does.

and finishing the thread, i see this has been mentioned. and the response was expectedly nonsensical.
his wife didn't when he was alive, and his wife wasn't an ordained minister unlike his neice who is now, seems to be better versed in theology than corretta and which i notice you keep glossing over these unfomfortable facts -common for most libreals.

dbs
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:09 PM   #37
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
Diamond,

What's your take on Rev. King's views of marital faithfulness?

Just sayin. . .

Nobody's perfect.
i think abernathy was a chump for writing what he did.

dbs
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:18 PM   #38
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,856
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


his wife didn't when he was alive, and his wife wasn't an ordained minister unlike his neice who is now, seems to be better versed in theology than corretta and which i notice you keep glossing over these unfomfortable facts -common for most libreals.

dbs


it was 1968, sweet pea.

i don't see what on earth one's being an ordained minister or not has to do with anything, unless you are saying that Coretta Scott King might agree that the religious tend to be bigots.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:20 PM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 01:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
MLK was a great leader in the fight against racial segregation, not an infallible all-purpose dowser's wand for The Right Answer on any and every social justice issue...
exactly my point.

some have took it upon themselves to mix race/sexuality/abortion and all lumped them into a triology, and attempt to lumped them into all Dr King's mission, and I'm calling them on it.

Yes Melon and I'm glad Dr King had a gay friend and he has his interpretation of how he wished or hoped Dr King would come out in favor of the gay lobby today. Dr. King never did, altho some have tried to claim he did, he did not, had he I'm sure most African Americans would be in favor of your views, and most African Americans aren't in favor of gay rights.

Now if Dr King had or even alluded to, it would be a slam dunk for you guys. Cheer up though you still have Jesse and Al our your side-great company I might add.

dbs
diamond is offline  
Old 04-01-2008, 10:23 PM   #40
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,856
Local Time: 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
[B]
some have took it upon themselves to mix race/sexuality/abortion and all lumped them into a triology, and attempt to lumped them into all Dr King's mission, and I'm calling them on it.

hello ... pot? this is the kettle calling. what's that color again?



[q]most African Americans aren't in favor of gay rights.[/q]

neither are most Mormons.

except you'll find that African-American homophobia comes from a place that's beyond a book read with magic glasses.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×