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Old 08-23-2007, 09:52 PM   #141
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Originally posted by yolland


I might be more inclined to acknowledge the possibility of some kind of morally (not legally) mitigating 'sociocultural factors' *perhaps* being involved here were it not for Vick et al.'s firsthand involvement in behavior like killing 'underperforming' dogs by hanging, drowning and bludgeoning them. I can't swallow the idea that that's how someone who sincerely sees these dogs as 'sporty' born killing machines acts.
Well, you've acknowledged the possibility a lot longer than I did!


My problem with the argument that dog fighting is "just sport" is that that's simply NOT true! Why do people dog fight? Because they make thousands of dollars betting or owning the winning pits! You don't make money doing dog sports like lure coursing, agility, rally-O, French ringsport...in fact you spend a LOT of it. We do these dog sports because they are fun for us and the dog and they showcase the various tasks a given breed was designed to perform. Pit bulls were intended for bull baiting and family companionship. Being a bully breed, they have the magnificently immense neck/shoulders/chest, plus the will of a bull itself. The dog sport appropriate for Staffordshire Terriers and their varieties is weight pull, not pit fighting. Last dog show I went to we met a woman waiting in line to get her Staffy Bull's pic taken because he had pulled 15 times his bodyweight. He was getting lots of treats and lovins from everyone. THAT is how we appreciate and treat sporting dogs. With any other breed, if the sport becomes too dangerous, people rethink the sport and the breed. For example, recently there were several instances of some Malinois coming off of Schutzhund trials with broken legs and shoulders b/c the decoy was hitting them so hard. There was a huge outcry against the decoy, but a lot of people are re-thinking the selection of drive in the Malinois breed because they are so drive-y they are hitting too hard, their bite work is out of this world, and the decoys HAVE to break their bones to finish the exercise. Anyone who truly loves and appreciates dogs and their sportiness is also overly critical of situations where a dog might get hurt. Not only allowing, but encouraging dogs to maime other dogs is unfathomable.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:25 AM   #142
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
They're banned over here and it's illegal to own an American Pitbull, due to combined poor breeding which has seen too many enter the country with behavioural problems, and owners not being equipped to handle such a breed sufficiently.
When I was in Australia I was scared by how aggressive all the dogs have been.
Really, almost every dog would bark, growl, jump at the fence and so on.

Having the job of a door knocker, I didn't enter any garden if there was a dog or dog sign. It wasn't worth it.

I was once in a house that had two dobermen. When I was inside it was friendly dogs, calm and nice.
Later, when I walked by the backgarden one of the dogs came to the fence, barking and making very clear that I should stay on my side of the fence.

I really don't know why these dogs were so aggressive, even if you kept away from the yard.
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:38 AM   #143
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According to ESPN Radio, Vick will plea on Monday that he was present when the dogs were killed but didn't participate in the killing and didn't gamble on the fighting itself.

This seems to contradict the testimony of the three other defendants. So, it will be interesting to see how this will all play out.
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:50 AM   #144
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both he and his lawyer are fools. everyone's gonna see right through this.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:02 AM   #145
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Originally posted by BonoManiac
According to ESPN Radio, Vick will plea on Monday that he was present when the dogs were killed but didn't participate in the killing and didn't gamble on the fighting itself.

So what? Neglect is neglect. It's HIS kennel, HIS property, and HE was there. I just watched a clip last night of a woman whose dog was infested with thousands of ticks. The dog survived and got a new home; the woman was punished. It doesn't matter that she wasn't killing the dog with her own hands.

He should just keep his mouth shut from now on. Every time they try to make excuses, he becomes more of a joke.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:28 AM   #146
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Originally posted by Liesje
I just watched a clip last night of a woman whose dog was infested with thousands of ticks. The dog survived and got a new home; the woman was punished.
The conditions some of those dogs are in on the Animal Cops/Animal Precinct type shows are just disgusting. Between starvation, embedded chains, untreated injuries, ticks...just horrible.

I think the "I was there but didn't kill any dogs" thing is just a PR stunt. If Vick maintains that he never physically hurt a dog his supporters will have that to hold on to, and they'll be able to say "it's all he say she say from guys trying to save themselves some jail time". Of course nobody will buy it, and even if they did Vick is/was the boss so if he was there then the drownings/hangings whatever were his call.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:30 AM   #147
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I think the "I was there but didn't kill any dogs" thing is just a PR stunt. If Vick maintains that he never physically hurt a dog his supporters will have that to hold on to, and they'll be able to say "it's all he say she say from guys trying to save themselves some jail time". Of course nobody will buy it, and even if they did Vick is/was the boss so if he was there then the drownings/hangings whatever were his call.
I'm sure it is a PR stunt, but no one's that stupid! IMO, it's not ANY better to own a kennel of 50 dogs on your property and KNOW that these things are going on, but not do anything about it and then try to convince people you've been victimized. Either way, he's an ass, but now he's more of an ass for being such a pansy about it.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:47 AM   #148
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That's the nature of some athletes though, they get too used to preferential and deferential treatment.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:56 AM   #149
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i'm tired of the vick brothers avoiding responsibility for their actions. i mean, i know other athletes get away with loads of stuff...these two get on nerves bc i've seen them get away with crap since college.
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:10 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje


I'm sure it is a PR stunt, but no one's that stupid! IMO, it's not ANY better to own a kennel of 50 dogs on your property and KNOW that these things are going on, but not do anything about it and then try to convince people you've been victimized. Either way, he's an ass, but now he's more of an ass for being such a pansy about it.
" I didn't inhale" has a lot to answer for...............
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:19 AM   #151
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Said last night on the news the NAACP has declared Vick is 'not a victim' and should take responsibilty for his actions.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:53 AM   #152
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The plea is all about the NFL personal conduct policy, and if he is allowed to do it that way that's just a joke in my opinion.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:27 PM   #153
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The plea is all about the NFL personal conduct policy, and if he is allowed to do it that way that's just a joke in my opinion.
That's probably true, but looking at the hard line new commish Roger Goodell has taken on personal conduct I think Vick is through regardless of how the plea agreement reads.
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:41 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoManiac
According to ESPN Radio, Vick will plea on Monday that he was present when the dogs were killed but didn't participate in the killing and didn't gamble on the fighting itself.

This seems to contradict the testimony of the three other defendants. So, it will be interesting to see how this will all play out.
Now he's saying that he did help kill the dogs, but didn't gamble:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7...PHCP&GT1=10347

Quote:
Michael Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and helping kill pit bulls. He denied ever betting on the fights, only bankrolling them. . .
According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.
I don't know if I find it sad, hilarious, or pathetic that in Michael Vick's mind gambling is worse than killing dogs .

I guess it all boils down to the issue that admitting to gambling is more of a problem if he wants to return to the NFL someday. That's just nuts.

eta: In Vick's statement of facts, he was aware of the killing in 2002 but did not "kill any dogs at this time" in 2002.

However, in April of 2007, when the 8 dogs were killed by hanging or drowning because they performed poorly, "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective effort of Peace, Phillips, and Vick."

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7153032_37_1.pdf
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:00 PM   #155
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ESPN are a bunch of shrills. Len Pasquarlli (sp?) is a giant douche, and is probably the unnamed source who provided that garbage. LP has been very forgiving in the information regarding Vick. Many believe it's due to him getting information from Vicks agent. Sort of a tic for tact.

Someone at the station needs to respond to what they're doing. They come out with a report stating something that is completely wrong.

Vick has admitted to everything. It's not a watered down plea like ESPN tried to have everyone believe last night.

Check out the link below for a very detailed account of the Plea:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:07 PM   #156
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Originally posted by kellyahern
I don't know if I find it sad, hilarious, or pathetic that in Michael Vick's mind gambling is worse than killing dogs .

I guess it all boils down to the issue that admitting to gambling is more of a problem if he wants to return to the NFL someday. That's just nuts.
He's been suspended indefinitely by Goodell because of the gambling. It's not really surprising that the gambling issue is the "cause" of his suspension - gambling and everything associated with it is something that causes sports leagues to shudder. It'll be interesting to see how long this indefinite suspension lasts for because he didn't game on NFL games. Part of me says that the suspension would be lifted at some point, but part of me sees Goodell playing hardball with this conduct policy and sticking to the indefinite suspension.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:35 PM   #157
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So how much time will this scumbag get in jail? I'd throw the book at him and lock him up for 10 years, that or parachute him into Baghdad with a big target on his back.
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Old 08-30-2007, 04:02 PM   #158
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(CNN) -- When young Tyler Reab got his autographed Michael Vick football for Christmas in 2005, he was shaking with excitement. Who knew it would end like this: his pet dog, Otis, munching on the once-cherished ball until it popped, its slobbery remnants hawked on eBay.

But that's just what has happened in the aftermath of Vick's guilty plea to a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. Tyler ultimately chose man's best friend over his once favorite sports star.

"From the beginning, it was his choice as to what he wanted to do with it," his father Chris Reab told CNN.com. "I commend him."

Tyler of Corvallis, Oregon, and his uncle, Jason Cripe, shot I-Report video in which Otis is fed the ball. The black, 1-year-old mixed breed is skeptical at first, but quickly warms to the football, walking around with it in his mouth.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayof...ml#cnnSTCVideo

"Get it, get it," Tyler says in the video, as he and his uncle laugh with glee.

Otis eventually chews it so hard the ball deflates.

Cripe says he gave the ball to his nephew as a Christmas present. It came in a clear case and it soon became the boy's "prized possession." Tyler, now 13, often used Windex to buff up the case, giving it a spit-clean shine.

But after the recent turn of events with Vick, the boy decided to get rid of it. After all, everyone in the Reab house loves animals and there was no place for Vick anymore, his dad said.

The chewed-up football is selling on eBay with a starting bid of 99 cents. The family has pledged to donate 100 percent of the proceeds to the Oregon Humane Society and Hope for Kids Foundation, a nonprofit organization that seeks to protect Oregon's after-school programs.

"I'm really proud of him," the father said of his son.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:00 PM   #159
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Someone else sold their dog chewed Vick trading cards for like $7500 (for the Humane Society).
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:39 PM   #160
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First Vick says he didnt know about it.

Second Vick says he knew about it but never did anything about it.

Third he is apologizing on espn after his courtdate was sentenced stating the fast that he was really sorry, well sorry for what? Knowing what was happening?? There was def more to the story then the public new.

Now he's saying he helped kill the dogs but didnt gamble..

This is a load of bull shit. He's guilty
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