Does anyone else find this more than a little disturbing?? - Page 2

sallycinnamon78 · 06-30-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

Aren't you like 16 or 17 years old? I am impressed. You put some men who are much older than you are to shame. Good on you there.

Yeah. Well said!

A_Wanderer · 06-30-2007, 12:06 PM

Having a waist that is about 70% of the hips is a cue of fecundity, things like clear complexion that signal youthfullness and reproductive potential are attractive. Now there is a lot of variation in human sexuality (now if we just ignore homosexuality for a moment) and I would agree that there is social control (the waxing and waning of what constitutes an attractive weight for instance), but theres a reason that we don't like asymmetrical faces or square jawed women; they wouldn't make as good a mate (asymmetry = ill health, and jawline a hormone proxy), sex drives are the concequence of evolution and aspects of human sexuality emerge from it. Variation between cultures and extremes like this sort of fetishisation are social but judging potential partners based on looks isn't and we shouldn't be apologetic for it.

And I say that as somebody who finds whatever vapid skeletor takes up the front page of the latest scandle mag rather repellent and definitely treats wit, charm and intelligence as traits right up there with looks.

Butterscotch · 06-30-2007, 02:02 PM

I can understand guys prefering girls with slim waists, but I can't understand anyone thinking that ridiculously squooshed in the middle woman is hot. She looks out of proportionto reality. She looks like she's dying, like something heavy fell on her and she's being squeezed and suffering to death. That's not sexy, unless you have a very ill fetish, and then it's not healthy.

shart1780 · 06-30-2007, 03:12 PM

My point is that women feel that they need to be thin because society expects that of them. Men find thin women attractive because basically all of society tells them that thin women are the most attractive. What's the difference in this situation? Both the men and the women are striving for a standard. The men GENERALLY look for thinner women and the women generally try to be thinner. On the same note you could say that women look for guys that are in better shape and men (not as many, but still a lot) strive to get bigger and more muscular. It's just how society works.

I hate it when women go on about how stupid men are. I don't know, it's just really gets on my nerves. know how it feels to have your body picked on because I used to be pretty darn thin and girls didn't like it. I've gained a lot of mass since then, but 'm still thinner than average I'd say. Women find me WAY more attractive now. But you don't hear me going around talking about how stupid women are because they find me more attractive now. I think that's a silly attitue and it's honestly pretty annoying. This is how things are in the real world and it can't be helped. And I'm not saying all thin women are better in some way than heavier ones.

Of course I'm talking about initial attraction here. When you really get to know someone it probably won't matter nearly as much how they look (unless they're really beastly). It would be a lie if a woman said she'd find Brad Pitt just as attractive if he gained 100 lbs, and it would be a lie if men said they'd find Angelina Jolie more attractive if she gained 100 lbs (although she'd look better if she didn't look like the stick she is).

The girl I like A LOT now is overweight but I find her extremely attractive. I am attracted to her body, but I'm mostly attracted to her because of small things about her I've learned to appreciate that other men might not initially notice. The things that sort of epitomize her in my eyes. Would I find her more physically attractive if she lost a few pounds? Of course. Would it make me more fond of her? No.

And PLEASE don't put words in my mouth. When did I EVER say anything about it being ok for men to mould women? I never did. I just said thin women are generally more attractive.

financeguy · 06-30-2007, 03:41 PM

I think if we look at the reasons why there is this dominant, anti-feminine aesthetic in the fashion industry, it could be because most designers are gay men, and they like to see their clothes on models who have boyish figures.

BVS · 06-30-2007, 05:29 PM

Well you are consistent, I'll give you that...

shart1780 · 06-30-2007, 11:17 PM

I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm assuming it wasn't a compliment.

BVS · 06-30-2007, 11:32 PM

I was speaking to financeguy, hence why I posted after his post without quoting...

shart1780 · 07-02-2007, 04:29 AM

I didn't bother looking at the picture until now.

Wow. That's just disturbing. I wouldn't think that would be humanly possible. The woman's husband must have had a skeleton fetish or something.

sallycinnamon78 · 07-07-2007, 03:11 PM

Yes well, thanks for your comments. In the first place, this thread was about that sort of extreme modification, not stereotypes of attractiveness. Hence I posted the link to the pic and the articles. That is what I was banging on about in particular. Not the rest of it. As anyone who had followed the link and then read my comments would have understood.

phillyfan26 · 07-07-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shart1780
And PLEASE don't put words in my mouth. When did I EVER say anything about it being ok for men to mould women? I never did. I just said thin women are generally more attractive.

Uh, gee, I don't know...

Quote:

Originally posted by shart1780
I don't understand how it's stupid to have a narrow view of who's attractive. It can't be helped. If you're going to take the blame off of women for doing stupid things because society expects it of them maybe you should consider the fact that men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive.

"Men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive." Are men suddenly not part of society?

You said it's not stupid to have a narrow view of women's attractiveness. Uh, it is. Especially considering it's not usually a "view" but an expectation.

shart1780 · 07-08-2007, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sallycinnamon78
Yes well, thanks for your comments. In the first place, this thread was about that sort of extreme modification, not stereotypes of attractiveness. Hence I posted the link to the pic and the articles. That is what I was banging on about in particular. Not the rest of it. As anyone who had followed the link and then read my comments would have understood.

Well maybe if you actually paid attention to what I was talking about you wouldn't have had a conniption fit on me.

shart1780 · 07-08-2007, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26

Uh, gee, I don't know...

"Men find thin women attractive because society says thin women are attractive." Are men suddenly not part of society?

You said it's not stupid to have a narrow view of women's attractiveness. Uh, it is. Especially considering it's not usually a "view" but an expectation.

Who said it's an expecation? If you're trying to tell me you don't find thin women more attractive than fat women you are a liar. Plain and simple. The reason you find them more attractive is because EVERYWHERE you look the media and pop culture and women talking about how fat they look conditions you to find thin women more attractive. Just look at other societies in other times in history where heavier women were considered more desireable. It's not because every man was born with a different brain. It's all about conditioning.

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Good grief I can't believe I'm actually having to try and prove this point.

BVS · 07-08-2007, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shart1780

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? You admit you are shaped by media, but then admit it's wrong...

Yet you are calling those who don't fit to your standard, "abnormal".

Once again you fail to make any sense in this forum.

verte76 · 07-08-2007, 06:56 AM

I have a picture of one of my ancestors. The lady is quite clearly wearing a corset. She looks like an hourglass. Yes, this is disturbing.

phillyfan26 · 07-08-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shart1780

Who said it's an expecation? If you're trying to tell me you don't find thin women more attractive than fat women you are a liar. Plain and simple. The reason you find them more attractive is because EVERYWHERE you look the media and pop culture and women talking about how fat they look conditions you to find thin women more attractive. Just look at other societies in other times in history where heavier women were considered more desireable. It's not because every man was born with a different brain. It's all about conditioning.

Yes, it's stupid if you can't get past how thin a girl looks and see her for her personality, but we will always find thin women initally more attractive because that's how we are. If you feel differently than you're abnormal. If you want to disagree with me then maybe you should take a look in all of the magazines and movies and TV shows. Are the most popular women overweight? No.

Good grief I can't believe I'm actually having to try and prove this point.

Somehow you are still separating men from society, the media, and pop culture.

shart1780 · 07-08-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? You admit you are shaped by media, but then admit it's wrong...

Yet you are calling those who don't fit to your standard, "abnormal".

Once again you fail to make any sense in this forum.

It makes perfect sense. I don't think you understand the difference between initial physical attraction and being able to look past it and find beauty in other things. My point is that men are initially more attracted to thin girls. I don't see how that's wrong. If we were going to a club together and we looked at two girls and I said "man, the thin one is really pretty, but the other one isn't that attractive to me because she's really overweight" you're not gonna say "OMG you're so mean and wrong! How dare you look at it that way!!". That attitude is just silliness.

It is wrong to be unable to look past that though. An example would be acknowledging a girl isn't quite as attractive to you because she's overweight and still liking her and finding beauty in other things about her other than just her waist size.

phillyfan26 · 07-08-2007, 01:02 PM

But it's about where you lay the blame that's the problem.

shart1780 · 07-08-2007, 01:08 PM

I don't think it's a problem. Why should I personally feel bad about who I find most attractive? I can't force myself to feel otherwise. At the same time I don't only give thin girls the time of day. Like I said, the girl I like right now is overweight. I don't understand who you think I should lay the blame on. The average joe guy, or the miniscule percent of people who actually control what we see in the media and such. As far as I see i they're the ones who set most of the trends.

phillyfan26 · 07-08-2007, 01:15 PM

I find it hard to believe that the media is this completely separate entity from society.

06-30-2007, 12:06 PM	#22
A_Wanderer ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Wild West Posts: 12,518 Local Time: 11:08 AM	Having a waist that is about 70% of the hips is a cue of fecundity, things like clear complexion that signal youthfullness and reproductive potential are attractive. Now there is a lot of variation in human sexuality (now if we just ignore homosexuality for a moment) and I would agree that there is social control (the waxing and waning of what constitutes an attractive weight for instance), but theres a reason that we don't like asymmetrical faces or square jawed women; they wouldn't make as good a mate (asymmetry = ill health, and jawline a hormone proxy), sex drives are the concequence of evolution and aspects of human sexuality emerge from it. Variation between cultures and extremes like this sort of fetishisation are social but judging potential partners based on looks isn't and we shouldn't be apologetic for it. And I say that as somebody who finds whatever vapid skeletor takes up the front page of the latest scandle mag rather repellent and definitely treats wit, charm and intelligence as traits right up there with looks. __________________

07-08-2007, 01:15 PM	#40
phillyfan26 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 30,343 Local Time: 08:08 PM	I find it hard to believe that the media is this completely separate entity from society. __________________

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06-30-2007, 02:02 PM	#23
Butterscotch War Child Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 716 Local Time: 01:08 AM	I can understand guys prefering girls with slim waists, but I can't understand anyone thinking that ridiculously squooshed in the middle woman is hot. She looks out of proportionto reality. She looks like she's dying, like something heavy fell on her and she's being squeezed and suffering to death. That's not sexy, unless you have a very ill fetish, and then it's not healthy.

06-30-2007, 03:12 PM	#24
shart1780 Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,861 Local Time: 01:08 AM	My point is that women feel that they need to be thin because society expects that of them. Men find thin women attractive because basically all of society tells them that thin women are the most attractive. What's the difference in this situation? Both the men and the women are striving for a standard. The men GENERALLY look for thinner women and the women generally try to be thinner. On the same note you could say that women look for guys that are in better shape and men (not as many, but still a lot) strive to get bigger and more muscular. It's just how society works. I hate it when women go on about how stupid men are. I don't know, it's just really gets on my nerves. know how it feels to have your body picked on because I used to be pretty darn thin and girls didn't like it. I've gained a lot of mass since then, but 'm still thinner than average I'd say. Women find me WAY more attractive now. But you don't hear me going around talking about how stupid women are because they find me more attractive now. I think that's a silly attitue and it's honestly pretty annoying. This is how things are in the real world and it can't be helped. And I'm not saying all thin women are better in some way than heavier ones. Of course I'm talking about initial attraction here. When you really get to know someone it probably won't matter nearly as much how they look (unless they're really beastly). It would be a lie if a woman said she'd find Brad Pitt just as attractive if he gained 100 lbs, and it would be a lie if men said they'd find Angelina Jolie more attractive if she gained 100 lbs (although she'd look better if she didn't look like the stick she is). The girl I like A LOT now is overweight but I find her extremely attractive. I am attracted to her body, but I'm mostly attracted to her because of small things about her I've learned to appreciate that other men might not initially notice. The things that sort of epitomize her in my eyes. Would I find her more physically attractive if she lost a few pounds? Of course. Would it make me more fond of her? No. And PLEASE don't put words in my mouth. When did I EVER say anything about it being ok for men to mould women? I never did. I just said thin women are generally more attractive.

06-30-2007, 03:41 PM	#25
financeguy ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 10,122 Local Time: 02:08 AM	I think if we look at the reasons why there is this dominant, anti-feminine aesthetic in the fashion industry, it could be because most designers are gay men, and they like to see their clothes on models who have boyish figures.

06-30-2007, 05:29 PM	#26
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:08 PM	Well you are consistent, I'll give you that...

06-30-2007, 11:17 PM	#27
shart1780 Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,861 Local Time: 01:08 AM	I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm assuming it wasn't a compliment.

06-30-2007, 11:32 PM	#28
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:08 PM	I was speaking to financeguy, hence why I posted after his post without quoting...

07-02-2007, 04:29 AM	#29
shart1780 Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,861 Local Time: 01:08 AM	I didn't bother looking at the picture until now. Wow. That's just disturbing. I wouldn't think that would be humanly possible. The woman's husband must have had a skeleton fetish or something.

07-07-2007, 03:11 PM	#30
sallycinnamon78 New Yorker Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,977 Local Time: 02:08 AM	Yes well, thanks for your comments. In the first place, this thread was about that sort of extreme modification, not stereotypes of attractiveness. Hence I posted the link to the pic and the articles. That is what I was banging on about in particular. Not the rest of it. As anyone who had followed the link and then read my comments would have understood.

07-08-2007, 06:56 AM	#35
verte76 Blue Crack Addict Join Date: May 2002 Location: hoping for changes Posts: 23,331 Local Time: 01:08 AM	I have a picture of one of my ancestors. The lady is quite clearly wearing a corset. She looks like an hourglass. Yes, this is disturbing.

07-08-2007, 01:02 PM	#38
phillyfan26 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 30,343 Local Time: 08:08 PM	But it's about where you lay the blame that's the problem.

07-08-2007, 01:08 PM	#39
shart1780 Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,861 Local Time: 01:08 AM	I don't think it's a problem. Why should I personally feel bad about who I find most attractive? I can't force myself to feel otherwise. At the same time I don't only give thin girls the time of day. Like I said, the girl I like right now is overweight. I don't understand who you think I should lay the blame on. The average joe guy, or the miniscule percent of people who actually control what we see in the media and such. As far as I see i they're the ones who set most of the trends.