Do you think The death penalty Is Right?

[thacraic]

This is often repeated but not true.


I just read the "Law of the Land"

The Constitution and all the amendments
there is no mention God directly or indirectly.

Only the 1st amendment mentions religion.

You do not think that the laws of this country are not rooted in Judeo-Chrisitian belief?

 

[Dreadsox]

You do not think that the laws of this country are not rooted in Judeo-Chrisitian belief?

A great number of the founding fathers were deists not Christian.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

A great number of the founding fathers were deists not Christian.

If this is true, they had no problem with a sovereign and virtuous society under God.

 

[Dreadsox]

If this is true, they had no problem with a sovereign and virtuous society under God.

OK...I lied.

 

[thacraic]

A great number of the founding fathers were deists not Christian.

That isn't an answer though.

Are the laws on which our society operates rooted in Judeo-Christian belief?

 

[deep]

You do not think that the laws of this country are not rooted in Judeo-Chrisitian belief?

I think this falls in that category of things we are taught and never examine.

wtf is Judeo-Christian anyway?

Is it bullshit term made up by people as some phony claim of inclusion or decency?

 

[deep]

If this is true, they had no problem with a sovereign and virtuous society under God.

Nancy Reagan

"Just say no."

 

[BVS]

And it didn't pass, and it's off the table for now.

But it should have never even been an issue. It will come up again and it's a discrace to this country and our constitution.

I don't support abstinence only, but I think that abstinence should be encouraged. Of course there will be those who won't choose abstinence, and protection should be taught, but taken note that it is NOT a guarantee. Nothing worse? Surely life and death issues oughta be more important.

Sex IS a life and death issue and not to be taken like this.

I have used prostitution (and I wish I was exaggerating, but some forumers actually believe it should be legalized) to show where the whole "pro-choice" line will lead you. I'm not saying you're for it, but things are taken to extremes. Civil rights was a great movement, but it has been distorted into OJ getting off scott free, thanks to his numerous scumbag lawyers, as well as affirmative action. Women's suffrage was a great historical movement, and the terminology has been abused by those who push for abortion and prostitution.

Basically my interpretation of the liberal agenda: anything goes, legalize everything, after all, life has no meaning. And if anyone disagrees with our agenda, we label them bigots, homophobes, and racists. We'll abuse freedom of speech as much as possible, and we'll cry censorship when it offends people.

Where to start? Your grasp of politics is sometimes scary. OJ had absolutely nothing, NOTHING to do with the civil rights movement or affirmative action. Where do you get this?

And your going to extremes such as prostitution or what does not help your case because you are using extremes that no one is pushing for. Have you seen a liberal politician run on the platform? No. But we've seen politicians run on the issues that I've brought up. Until I see evidence of what you are talking about as far as mainstream politics and not some forumers then really this disscusion is lost.

 

[thacraic]

I think this falls in that category of things we are taught and never examine.

wtf is Judeo-Christian anyway?

Is it bullshit term made up by people as some phony claim of inclusion or decency?

Ok here...
Judeo-Christian Roots

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. (Psalms 19:7 - 8)

American Founding Ideal:

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams, February 22, 1756

"These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil .... This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this...

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the holy scriptures ... [and] are found upon comparison to be really part of the original law of nature. Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. William Blackstone


and here.....

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." (Leviticus 25:10)

"Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 34:17)

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

American Founding Ideal:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" George Washington

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address


Just to name a few.

It is not some bullshit term made up by anyone. It is something that was devised to provide a definition for a concept. From the few quotes I pasted in, what else would you call it?

 

[Dreadsox]

Civil rights was a great movement, but it has been distorted into OJ getting off scott free, thanks to his numerous scumbag lawyers, as well as affirmative action.

Chalk this up to one of the most intelligent rants ever seen in FYM

 

[thacraic]

Oh one more Judeo-Christian thingy that would realllllllly apply to this thread.....

Judeo-Christian Roots

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut. 24: 6)

American Founding Ideal:

".but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 2)

 

[Dreadsox]

Ok here...
Judeo-Christian Roots

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. (Psalms 19:7 - 8)

American Founding Ideal:

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams, February 22, 1756

"These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil .... This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this...

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the holy scriptures ... [and] are found upon comparison to be really part of the original law of nature. Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. William Blackstone


and here.....

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." (Leviticus 25:10)

"Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 34:17)

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

American Founding Ideal:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" George Washington

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address


Just to name a few.

It is not some bullshit term made up by anyone. It is something that was devised to provide a definition for a concept. From the few quotes I pasted in, what else would you call it?

You should really cite the web page you got this from....in the interests of scholarly behavior.....otherwise we cannot attack the source you pulled it from.

 

[Dreadsox]

Oh one more Judeo-Christian thingy that would realllllllly apply to this thread.....

Judeo-Christian Roots

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut. 24: 6)

American Founding Ideal:

".but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted." (U.S Constitution, Art. III, Section 3, Paragraph 2)

And this....

Since I am looking at the web pages you are copying from.

 

[Dreadsox]

Actually we have much more in common with the Code of Hammurabi since he received his laws on tablets from god, little g. They really do make sense.

 

[verte76]

Actually we have much more in common with the Code of Hammurabi since he received his laws on tablets from god, little g. They really do make sense.

I would agree with this. I think U.S. laws and our constitution are completely, totally secular. I say this as a practicing Catholic.

 

[deep]

Ok here...
Judeo-Christian Roots



Just to name a few.

It is not some bullshit term made up by anyone. It is something that was devised to provide a definition for a concept. From the few quotes I pasted in, what else would you call it?

I still say Judeo-christian is a bullshit term

employed by conservatives as a claim of inclusion or decency

My Jewish friends would never use the term.

this site does not have founding fathers using term

 

[Dreadsox]

Bad link deep....

 

[thacraic]

Actually we have much more in common with the Code of Hammurabi since he received his laws on tablets from god, little g. They really do make sense.

Well that is all fine and well Dread. But the question is not what similarities our laws hold to Hammurabi's system. The question is what guided the founding fathers in their decisions when implamenting laws in this country.

Whether or not one agrees with the Bible or Judeo-Christian ethics or whatever is of no consequnce. What is being asked is where did our laws come from?

 

[Dreadsox]

lets see......

How many of the founding fathers would you characterize as being part of the religious right?

I would agree that they are based on the Bible, but not based on the Religious Rights distorted view of the Bible.

 

[Dreadsox]

Well that is all fine and well Dread. But the question is not what similarities our laws hold to Hammurabi's system. The question is what guided the founding fathers in their decisions when implamenting laws in this country.

Whether or not one agrees with the Bible or Judeo-Christian ethics or whatever is of no consequnce. What is being asked is where did our laws come from?

I would say provide links to your sources...and we can chat.

 

[thacraic]

I still say Judeo-christian is a bullshit term

employed by conservatives as a claim of inclusion or decency

My Jewish friends would never use the term.

this site does not have founding fathers using term

I couldnt use the site. I never said the founding fathers used the term Judeo-Christian. What is being said is they used the Bible to set up our system of law. Since the Bible is Judeo-Christian in origin (duh) what else would you say our laws are rooted in?

How can you deny history?

 

[thacraic]

I would say provide links to your sources...and we can chat.

I did mate. Two of them.

 

[Dreadsox]

Well that is all fine and well Dread. But the question is not what similarities our laws hold to Hammurabi's system. The question is what guided the founding fathers in their decisions when implamenting laws in this country.

Whether or not one agrees with the Bible or Judeo-Christian ethics or whatever is of no consequnce. What is being asked is where did our laws come from?

hammurabi preceeds the Bible. therefore, the code of laws is truly the basis of all law.

 

[Dreadsox]

I did mate. Two of them.

Wow...I must be blind....where is the link?

 

[thacraic]

lets see......

How many of the founding fathers would you characterize as being part of the religious right?

I would agree that they are based on the Bible, but not based on the Religious Rights distorted view of the Bible.

Not very many. I think a large part of them were freemasons and that is a big NO-NO in my book.

I am not even talking about the religous right here ok? I am not talking about the direction this country is taking or the impending doom people see on the horizon because people shot down the gay marriage vote in their states. I am talking about the origin of American law.

All this started because of what I see as a fairly truthful statement that the reason the death penalty is turned into a religious/political discussion is because of its origin.

 

[Dreadsox]

Not very many. I think a large part of them were freemasons and that is a big NO-NO in my book.

that's a shame.....every mason I know is a good person

 

[thacraic]

Wow...I must be blind....where is the link?

You're not blind im just a moron.

I don't know what happened to that post! And I think I said something clever too along with the links (that doesn't happen often so Im bummed about it). Anyhoo...

This is the site http://www.nccs.net/index.html

And this is the section of the site I pulled those quotes from

http://www.nccs.net/newsletter/may03nl.html

 

[thacraic]

that's a shame.....every mason I know is a good person

Dear Lord!

Is EVERYTHING I say something you have to disagree with?

That fine they are good people ok? They have some pretty creepy practices though. I guess you are going to disagree with that as well..

This is going wayyyyy off topic at this point. Maybe we can get back on track sooooon.

 

[Dreadsox]

OK...and examining their site, I would say that they, also pushing Bible Cd's to earn money, would have a reason for pumping the "Judeo-Christian" links to the constitution.

 

[deep]

I couldnt use the site. I never said the founding fathers used the term Judeo-Christian. What is being said is they used the Bible to set up our system of law. Since the Bible is Judeo-Christian in origin (duh) what else would you say our laws are rooted in?

How can you deny history?

http://www.nccs.net/newsletter/may03nl.html



here is the site again


all the items you posted were bits of writings and speechs

one may have been a law

it was laws we were talking about, right?

Article. III.

Section. 1. The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section. 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; — to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; — to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; — to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; — to Controversies between two or more States; — between a State and Citizens of another State [Modified by Amendment XI]; — between Citizens of different States; — between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Section. 3. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

so we could not have the above without

Judeo-Christian Roots

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deut. 24: 6)