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Old 11-13-2002, 10:54 AM   #21
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Funny thing about pot: It contains all kinds of carcinogens, but it has never once been known to cause cancer. It's true. It's confounded scientists for the longest time. Unlike cigarettes, marijuana has never killed anyone.

Another interesting fact: Pot isn't a pain reliever, per se. What it does is mess with a person's short term memory, so the person will, in effect, forget that he/she is in pain.

They really need to legalize it, dammit. I have bad dealer karma.
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Old 11-13-2002, 11:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
Funny thing about pot: It contains all kinds of carcinogens, but it has never once been known to cause cancer. It's true. It's confounded scientists for the longest time. Unlike cigarettes, marijuana has never killed anyone.

Another interesting fact: Pot isn't a pain reliever, per se. What it does is mess with a person's short term memory, so the person will, in effect, forget that he/she is in pain.

They really need to legalize it, dammit. I have bad dealer karma.
All true, according to what I've read. Whenever marijuana has been linked with cancer, it has been the combination of marijuana and cigarettes. Whenever it has been linked to car accidents, it has been the combination of alcohol and marijuana.

As for pain relief, users generally adamantly insist it dulls pain, but this is in fact inconsistent with the findings of studies. I tend to trust my own personal experience here rather than studies, as do doctors working with the terminally ill who are fighting to have medical marijuana legalized. Memory loss or pain relief? To me it doesn't matter.

Anyway, no one is saying it's not dangerous at all. But the fact that many substances that are significantly more dangerous are legal still leads me to believe the illegality of marijuana is mostly a political issue. In fact, it's incredibly obvious to me. Prescription drugs, for example, are linked to over 100,000 deaths per year according to a study published in the Journal of the AMA. Aspirin is linked to over 7,500. Marijuana 0.
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Old 11-13-2002, 01:03 PM   #23
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if pot is as bad as tobacco
then selling tobacco should also be made illegal
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Old 11-13-2002, 01:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
if pot is as bad as tobacco
then selling tobacco should also be made illegal
You're right. I've advocated its illegality from the start here.

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Old 11-13-2002, 01:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Whenever it has been linked to car accidents, it has been the combination of alcohol and marijuana.
Think about that:
On a German Autobahn (2 lanes) i'm on the left lane with 300km/h you (smoked Marijuana)and change the lane because you try to overtake a Truck..

I think it's pretty obvious that your decreased reaction and problems with reality could lead to a deadly crash.
(You still giggle while i crash with 200km/h into your back and didn't have the time to think about what would have been a adequate reaction)

The main problme to link this with statistics is that Police irgnored non-alcoholic drugs in car accidents in the past.
That changed and i'm pretty sure that you can find statistical proofs for that soon.

Quote:
Anyway, no one is saying it's not dangerous at all. But the fact that many substances that are significantly more dangerous are legal still leads me to believe the illegality of marijuana is mostly a political issue. In fact, it's incredibly obvious to me.
Think the other way - it's a political/historical issue that some dangerous drugs are legal.
But - is it a good idea to make every drug legaly avail. just because it's less dangerous than alcohol?

Quote:
Prescription drugs, for example, are linked to over 100,000 deaths per year according to a study published in the Journal of the AMA. Aspirin is linked to over 7,500. Marijuana 0.
It depends how you count the deaths - i'm not enough of a expert to tell you if there is any physical damage through pot that can kill you But i can asure that i knew someone (school times) who died because he didn't see the risk of what he was doing (swimming in a big lake during a storm) because he smoked Marijuana.

I have no problem with Marijuana as medcine (pain relief).
I'm sure that some people know how to handle marijuana and don't abuse it.But i also know some ppl. where marijuana ruins there life.

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Old 11-13-2002, 01:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
But marijuana is the least of our concerns when it comes to cancer. Good lord, hairspray, deodorant, pesticides, fertilizers, air pollution and most things under your kitchen sink are WAY bigger concerns. Chemical sensitivity is the illness of the 21st century and it's chemicals that are the biggest concern, not moderate amounts of marijuana. To me the concern over marijuana stills reeks of puritanical control.
If the marijuana was just sitting under your kitchen sink with the rest of the chemicals, I'd agree with you. But it's getting smoked. It's going into your body in high doses. It's smoking marijuana, drinking high doses of pesticides, and using your hairspray as a breath-freshener that pose a cancer risk.
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Old 11-13-2002, 01:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


Think about that:
On a German Autobahn (2 lanes) i'm on the left lane with 300km/h you (smoked Marijuana)and change the lane because you try to overtake a Truck..

I think it's pretty obvious that your decreased reaction and problems with reality could lead to a deadly crash.
(You still giggle while i crash with 200km/h into your back and didn't have the time to think about what would have been a adequate reaction)

The main problme to link this with statistics is that Police irgnored non-alcoholic drugs in car accidents in the past.
That changed and i'm pretty sure that you can find statistical proofs for that soon.



Think the other way - it's a political/historical issue that some dangerous drugs are legal.
But - is it a good idea to make every drug legaly avail. just because it's less dangerous than alcohol?



It depends how you count the deaths - i'm not enough of a expert to tell you if there is any physical damage through pot that can kill you But i can asure that i knew someone (school times) who died because he didn't see the risk of what he was doing (swimming in a big lake during a storm) because he smoked Marijuana.

I have no problem with Marijuana as medcine (pain relief).
I'm sure that some people know how to handle marijuana and don't abuse it.But i also know some ppl. where marijuana ruins there life.

Klaus
Klaus--I certainly do not advocate smoking weed and then driving. However, study after study after study has shown that regular marijuana users are very conservative drivers (first time users definitely shouldn't drive). They know they're high, they don't want any trouble, they use extra caution in driving. In one famous study conducted by the British Ministry of Transportation (or whatever it's called) the only time the marijuana user became confused was when they had to drive around in circles in a figure 8 which, frankly, is confusing to me under any circumstances. The marijuana user, recognizing they are high, would say, "better take a back road--I ain't driving around that roundabout." (That wasn't in the study--I just made that up but I bet it's true).

Alcohol, on the other hand, promotes risk-taking and recklessness in driving. Reaction time is decreased under the influence of marijuana but significantly less than under fatigue and alcohol. Fatigue is the #1 cause of fatal car accidents, followed by alcohol, with 'other drugs' a distant third.

I advocate decriminalizing marijuana in the US, not legalizing it.

And kids, don't smoke or drink and drive.
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Old 11-13-2002, 02:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase


If the marijuana was just sitting under your kitchen sink with the rest of the chemicals, I'd agree with you. But it's getting smoked. It's going into your body in high doses. It's smoking marijuana, drinking high doses of pesticides, and using your hairspray as a breath-freshener that pose a cancer risk.
Sprial, do you really think drinking high does of pesticides and putting hairspray into your mouth is the only way these products are dangerous? My best friend died from lung cancer last year. A rare form of lung cancer, non-smoking related, that is only seen in people with exposure to chemicals such as pesticides. He was 42 and in otherwise perfect health. But he lived in places as a child where he was exposed to a lot of shit.

Most household cleaning products are extremely toxic. My friend with chemical sensitivities can be sent to the emergency room if he sits beside someone who's wearing perfume in the threatre for 30 minutes. I have had to de-toxify my home so that he can come over. And this is becoming an increasingly large problem in our toxic world. I grew up in a farming community in Virginia. My father used to spray crops with pesticides with his airplane. An alarming number of people in the community have really weird, obscure life-threatening illnesses. I myself get migraines and have dizzy spells every time I visit my mother because I live in such a clean non-toxic environment today that I am extremely sensitive to the levels of toxicity in that part of the country.
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Old 11-13-2002, 02:27 PM   #29
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I know some people who lost their driving licence because of Marijuana consume - and i think it's ok .
Also i think it's a sad thing that some ppl throw their life away because of a drug imho they should be able to do this - it's a free country. But liberty stops where others will be harmed.
And Marijuana and driving is such a thing.
If you are not able to do the right things as fast as possible at the steering wheel you a re a danger to the public.
(Imagine s.o. who smoked Marijuana and a tire of his car blews) The roads are far to crowded - chances are pretty high that an innocent person will be harmed or even killed..
(Same for Alcohol too of course)
Just because it's less dangerous than the most dangerous thing dosn't make it harmless.

Quote:
And kids, don't smoke or drink and drive.
Right - don't drive if you reduced your ability to do so - no matter which drug (alcohol, marijuana, pills,.. whatever) you took

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Old 11-13-2002, 03:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Sprial, do you really think drinking high does of pesticides and putting hairspray into your mouth is the only way these products are dangerous?
don't take me too seriously. I say stupid stuff all the time.

But on that topic....I found this article interesting when someone posted it around here a few weeks ago (my apologies if you saw it the first time around). Considering your experiences, it might make you angry. It was just a very different take on the issue of carcinogenic synthetic chemicals than what I'm used to hearing.

Ok....back to pot.
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Old 11-13-2002, 04:16 PM   #31
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Another thing about pot and driving (or pretty much anything): Pot makes people paranoid, some more than others, and people are less likely to drive high than they are to drive drunk. Drunkenness gives a person a sense of confidence. Highness does the opposite. The few times I've driven high, I was always very careful never to go over the speed limit, always come to a full stop when necessary, and try to stick to side roads.
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Old 11-13-2002, 04:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase


don't take me too seriously. I say stupid stuff all the time.

But on that topic....I found this article interesting when someone posted it around here a few weeks ago (my apologies if you saw it the first time around). Considering your experiences, it might make you angry. It was just a very different take on the issue of carcinogenic synthetic chemicals than what I'm used to hearing.

Ok....back to pot.
Oh. I should've known you were just messin' with me.

That's an interesting article (no, I hadn't seen it before). "What do you when doctors disagree?" as they say. I mean, there's new and contradictory info everyday about the effects of pollution and chemicals on health. The guy seems to be legit (I like that he doesn't take money from the chemicals industry, for ex) but his findings definitely aren't in sync with most of what's out there, as you say. I hope he's right but I remain skeptical.
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Old 11-13-2002, 04:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
I know some people who lost their driving licence because of Marijuana consume - and i think it's ok .
Also i think it's a sad thing that some ppl throw their life away because of a drug imho they should be able to do this - it's a free country. But liberty stops where others will be harmed.
And Marijuana and driving is such a thing.
If you are not able to do the right things as fast as possible at the steering wheel you a re a danger to the public.
(Imagine s.o. who smoked Marijuana and a tire of his car blews) The roads are far to crowded - chances are pretty high that an innocent person will be harmed or even killed..
(Same for Alcohol too of course)
Just because it's less dangerous than the most dangerous thing dosn't make it harmless.



Right - don't drive if you reduced your ability to do so - no matter which drug (alcohol, marijuana, pills,.. whatever) you took

Klaus
Klaus, your concerns are certainly reasonable. I don't disagree with you exactly--but I tend to think that the dangers of marijuana are exaggerated and what angers me most is the political aspect of it here in the US. I enjoy a smoke here and there, but if it were to go away forever I certainly would get over it.

And I meant to say earlier--I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.

Not George Lucas > I was going to mention the paranoid thing but realized that argument could be used against me ("so you think it's okay for paranoid people to get behind the wheel?"). But I agree with you--someone high on marijuana is way more likely to hand somebody else the keys and say "man, I'm too high to drive" whereas someone drunk on alcohol can feel invincible. While it's best to be awake, alert, and under the influence of no drug or alcohol, I still maintain that the marijuana users on the highway are of far less concern than, say, people talking on their cell phones.
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Old 11-14-2002, 12:42 AM   #34
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See i smoke weed. Once a month or twice. i bet you when i got high on Sunday and came back into the bar everyone knew i was high. I sat down had a good time. But you know what noone said anything they just went on with it.

People if you really think smoking weed, and only smoking weed is a big problem then you have some seriuos issues. There are so many more important problems in the world then weed.

I never see a thread about crack, or cocaine or PCP. Why because you think only addicts do that. Well those drugs kill many many ppl and you dont seem to be outraged, or i should rephrase that you seem to be more outraged about people smoking weed at their own free will and being able to put it down when they want. People that arnt spend a 100$ a pop to get high ppl that pay 10$ a g(thats CANADIAN!!!)

If you think drugs are so bad then why not talk about the drugs that actually kill ppl and ruin lives as soon as that drug enters their life.

Your drug priorites are totally twisted!!! Dont start at the most harmless drug and work your way up start with smack or crack or coc. I just dont see the point in argueing about a drug that does such little harm compared to so many more things.
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Old 11-14-2002, 10:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by UltravioletU2
. I do think pot is safer than alcohol in the sense that people who are high are usually less dangerous than those intoxicated (general statement here).
uh yeah. This makes sense actually if you think about it. Like someone stoned is going to have enough will to get there arse up off the coach and drive a car or something.

As for the health part. I think there is enough information out about shit you are going to inhale. If you wanna damage your body that is all on you. It is a choice. I don't hear of many people being tied down and some one holding there nose while having a bong or cig held to their mouth.
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