Do you believe in God???

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by mug222


This is such a twisted tangle of logic that I don't even know where to begin. I never said anything resembling "God cannot reveal himself." In fact, nothing in my statement contradicts anything in yours: my beliefs, if they can be called that, allow for the possibility that God exists and chooses not to show himself. It also allows for the possibility that God exists and has shown himself. It also allows for the possibility that God exists and cannot show himself. It also allows for the possibility that God does not exist and therefore cannot show himself.

In fact, it allows for every conceivable possibility and says that it is impossible in a human's lifetime to know which one is true. How can that possibly be a controversial statement? I don't even understand what you are debating here.

I meant no offense - I was merely seeking a clarification.

I now understand your position a little better, but it begs another question: if it's impossible to know what is true about God, isn't it also impossible to know what's true about anything?

[Discoteque]

I believe in one God, the Lord Jesus Christ!

He gave me His salvation, gave me a new lease on life, and for that I am forever grateful!

[mug222]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba


I meant no offense - I was merely seeking a clarification.

I now understand your position a little better, but it begs another question: if it's impossible to know what is true about God, isn't it also impossible to know what's true about anything?

Absolutely, and that's why I've often had trouble dealing with certain solipsistic thoughts--how can I prove you exist? How can I prove the entire world I see is not but a figment of my imagination? How can I prove I exist? Descartes had the same line of thinking, but when he arrived at the last question he felt he had arrived at an undeniable truth: "I think, therefore I am." My problem is that I don't understand why that is necessarily self-evident.

I've read books and papers ad infinitum on consciousness and its relation to philosophy, and have determined that I will never be able to answer the above questions. My solution has been to not dwell on these thoughts, since I will never be able to answer them concretely. I ignore them, and they can't torment me anymore--that is, until your question. Thanks a lot.

[Achtung Bubba]

No problem.

[Johnny Swallow]

I believe in poetry
I believe in M&Ms
I believe in cheap perfume
I believe in you
I believe in vision
I believe in Television.

[adamswildhoney]

I do believe in God!

[Stories for Boys]

i most definately believe in God........but right now i'm thinking over what i really believe about all the other stuff, like theology and such issues.......it's not easy figuring everything out when you've grown up in a conservative christian reformed home..........*hugs* to my parents for raising me right, but i don't know right now........

[Saracene]

I've no idea whether God exists or not, so I'll just leave it at that.

[whiteflag]

Hey Stories,


Can I make one suggestion that might help you in the long run?


Get to thoroughly know where you come from before you go seeking other spiritual paths. Make a study of the many expressions of the Christian faith first and never think of it as all the same everywhere. You might be surprised at the number of smart people who just leave the faith without really investigating it outside of the church they grew up in. Then they end up studying other religions with only a fraction of a fraction of Christianity to compare them with(but they think they know all there is to know). Can you see how that can't make for well-informed spiritual descisions?

I know it sounds simple minded to tell you to take the first step before taking another. But people try all the time to take them all at once or else they try to skip steps in their impatience to get moving on. It doesn't have to be that way.

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
I believe in the God of Abraham, good and great, just and merciful; three in one - the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; a God Who has given everything so that we may enjoy an eternity in His presence; a God Who has given us just two commandments which form the basis of our entire existence:

1. Love God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul.

2. Love everyone else as you love yourself.

He is God of Truth, who has given us an existence of Freedom in a universe of Beauty, and who has shown us incomparable Love.

[U2002revolution!]

yes, but sometimes (alot of times actually) i wish i didn't.....

[melon]

I believe in God. I just no longer believe in most who profess to be Christians.

Melon

[joyfulgirl]

I'm kind of amazed that I'm the only person who believes God dwells within us, despite all the Biblical quotes that point to that. Or, I suppose, one could believe in a specific God and that this specific God is inside of us but that wasn't an option.

Just curious...do the Christians here believe that God dwells within us? Or do you believe in an external God?

[speedracer]

Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Just curious...do the Christians here believe that God dwells within us? Or do you believe in an external God?

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I believe that God makes Himself known to us both by direct contact and by the teachings of pastors, the Bible, etc.

[Stories for Boys]

Originally posted by whiteflag
Hey Stories,


Can I make one suggestion that might help you in the long run?


Get to thoroughly know where you come from before you go seeking other spiritual paths.

ok, first of all, it's fine that you make a suggestion, but you really are quite a bit off on this one...not the suggestion, just that you think it applys to me...that's why i'm going to explain this for you...

Make a study of the many expressions of the Christian faith first and never think of it as all the same everywhere.

ok, i've gone to christian schools my whole life (minus 1 year in 6th grade)...i've taken classes that are solely about other religions and how they compare/contrast/relate to christianity...i know.....

You might be surprised at the number of smart people who just leave the faith without really investigating it outside of the church they grew up in.

in the past couple of years, i've been "straying" outside my parent's christian reformed church and started trying a couple of my friends' churches...in all honesty, i feel i worship god better in some of them....

Then they end up studying other religions with only a fraction of a fraction of Christianity to compare them with(but they think they know all there is to know). Can you see how that can't make for well-informed spiritual descisions?

first, i know more than a "fraction of a fraction of christianity"...lets see...besides the fact that i've had christian education, and am heading to a christian college next year, i've also gone to church twice a sunday, catechism, and youth group every week for my whole life. i know i don't know everything (and everything isn't meant to be known), but i think i know a little.

second, did i make the impression that i was "leaving the faith"??? i'm not...i'm still a christian, i just am not sure about the whole theology thing...in fact, i think that crc people tend to make everything more black and white than it can ever possibly be...as someone just told me, it was all the restrictions and rules of the pharisees that led them astray....i think i've been taking your advice for the past couple of years by trying to branch out and form my own beliefs instead of blindly following my parents...i think that's perfectly healthy, and i was merely stating that i was doing some soul searching...

I know it sounds simple minded to tell you to take the first step before taking another. But people try all the time to take them all at once or else they try to skip steps in their impatience to get moving on. It doesn't have to be that way.

i'm actually a bit annoyed that you would assume things about me...i mean, i realize we've never spoken, but faith can be a fragile thing...as wonderful as it is for you to be trying to "save" me, i really don't need it...to be sure...and you should be a little more careful next time...

no hard feelings at all, don't get me wrong, just know your facts before advising...if you want to chat sometime, let me know and i'm willing.

[whiteflag]

I am really sorry that you thought I was assuming things about you. I did not write my post with "saving" you on my mind.

I made my statements on a "just in case" basis, thats all. I suppose using the phrase "in the long run" wasn't as accurate as it could have been. My mistake. I was making no assumptions about you. But I happen to know of many people who have gone through similar periods of questioning who in the course of wrestling with Christian theology get swept away from the faith in one form or another. People in your position aren't necessarily lost in my experience, but I think its safe to say that they are more vulnerable.

Who knows what tommorrow will bring? Many people feel sure that they won't leave the faith for all their questioning, but along comes some crisis and before you know it, they've chucked their original belief. Even people with really good Christian backgrounds like yourself. Its not that people don't have the right to leave, but I wonder how many would leave the faith if they were given advice similar to what I gave here long before some crisis hit them.

I believe in doing my best to ensure that if people do leave the faith, that they do it with the widest possible knowledge and perspective on it. It really concerns me that so many don't have much knowledge about the faith they come to deny.

Ok, I admit that I stepped out of line on this one. I should have kept my trap shut in retrospect, but at the time I thought it was worth the risk to say what I said. I hope that you can forgive my mistake.

[Spiral_Staircase]

Originally posted by Stories for Boys


...am heading to a christian college next year...

Are you, by chance, going to Hope, Calvin, or Northwestern? Just curious, because I know people at all 3 schools, and they seem to be a common choice for students from the Christian Reformed Church in Michigan. Not making any assumptions, though...just curious.

[sulawesigirl4]

Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase


Are you, by chance, going to Hope, Calvin, or Northwestern? Just curious, because I know people at all 3 schools, and they seem to be a common choice for students from the Christian Reformed Church in Michigan. Not making any assumptions, though...just curious.

*knows a few people from that last one* oh wait...that would be me.

[Ultraviolet Light]

Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase
Hope, Calvin, or Northwestern

<~Calvin

students from the Christian Reformed Church in Michigan.

<~one of said students

*sigh*

[Spiral_Staircase]

Originally posted by Ultraviolet Light

<~Calvin


<~one of said students

*sigh*

Ok, long shot....do you know Mike Wooten, he's an RD in one of the dorms (don't know which one, but I think it has like 3 or 4 names...like Sagman-Bennet-Robbins-Oppenheim and Taft).