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View Poll Results: Is Demonic Possession real or group hysteria?
Absolutely real 10 18.87%
Probably real 2 3.77%
It's real, but you have to invite evil influences into your life 8 15.09%
No, not real; anyone claiming this is a mental case. 28 52.83%
There is a good force and a bad force in our universe-a person has to decide which force they choose to serve 2 3.77%
diamondbruno#9, do you have your own church and gospel? 3 5.66%
diamond you always make the best threads; cutting edge, pushing the intellectual and religious envelope; Bravo 6 11.32%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:37 PM   #181
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agreed, supasta.


dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:55 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


some people desperately need the devil to exist.
And some people desperately wish he didn't.

But the greatest trick the devil pulled....
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:14 PM   #183
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Originally posted by nathan1977
But the greatest trick the devil pulled....
...was convincing people that he was more powerful than what he really is. There's certainly been an awful lot of people killed, in the name of God, by people trying to "rid the world of Satan."
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:26 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


...was convincing people that he was more powerful than what he really is. There's certainly been an awful lot of people killed, in the name of God, by people trying to "rid the world of Satan."
Point taken.
Sadly, most ppl don't realize how easy it is to put Satan in check.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:39 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


And some people desperately wish he didn't.

But the greatest trick the devil pulled....


show me the money.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:48 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




show me the money.

Irvine,
Here go.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

Don't spend too much time there, I don't want to have to go fish you out.



dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:55 PM   #187
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^ That's the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled?

Man, what a letdown...I prefer Paradise Lost.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:01 PM   #188
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Milton had a lot of it right based on the information available in his day; some of it his opinion only.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:03 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond



Irvine,
Here go.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

Don't spend too much time there, I don't want to have to go fish you out.



dbs
Quote:
The beliefs, practices and rituals of the Church of Satan have few, if any, points of similarity with the Christian or Muslim concept of Satan. The CoS' Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. Satan is viewed as a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, demonic possession, and profound evil. There are references in LaVey' writings to having conducted a few Black Masses for publicity purposes, in which the Roman Catholic Mass was ridiculed. But, it is unknown whether these references were satirical or reflected actual rituals. Assuming that the black masses were fictional, all of their rituals have no connection to those of Christianity or of any other religion.

Some of their beliefs and practices are:
They do not worship a living deity.
Major emphasis is placed on the power and authority of the individual Satanist, rather than on a god or goddess.
They believe that "no redeemer liveth" - that each person is their own redeemer, fully responsible for the direction of their own life.
"Satanism respects and exalts life. Children and animals are the purest expressions of that life force, and as such are held sacred and precious..."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm


Nice try. Next?
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:12 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk




http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm


Nice try. Next?
Actually here are their tenets and they sound pretty secular to most Christians.

The Nine Satanic Statements

from The Satanic Bible, ©1969

by Anton Szandor LaVey

[français]



1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:19 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Actually here are their tenets and they sound pretty secular to most Christians.

The Nine Satanic Statements

from The Satanic Bible, ©1969

by Anton Szandor LaVey

[français]



1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
Yes, they do sound secular. They strike me as a bunch of harmless, self-indulgent hedonists, which, if that's the way they choose to live their lives, that's fine with me.

But my point, the relevant one, is that they by no means agree with your representation of satan, nor do they worship him, or feel it's possible for satan to "possess" someone.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:21 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Actually here are their tenets and they sound pretty secular to most Christians.

The Nine Satanic Statements

from The Satanic Bible, ©1969

by Anton Szandor LaVey

[français]



1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!



9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

I have no real interest or attraction to the ideals of the Church of Satan, but does anyone think these beliefs are necessarily evil ??
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:25 PM   #193
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Originally posted by TranceEnding



I have no real interest or attraction to the ideals of the Church of Satan, but does anyone think these beliefs are necessarily evil ??
That's what I was just thinking.

Going through the list, I agree with #1 at times, and with 2, 3, 6, 7 and 9 wholeheartedly.

That's more agreement than I generally share with mainstream religions.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:26 PM   #194
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Quote:
self-indulgent hedonists..
I would say these are Satatnist attributes, as are:
not helping the less fornunate, vengence not turning the other cheek-etc.

I wouldn't say ppl of this ilk are completely "harmless".



Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk






But my point, the relevant one, is that they by no means agree with your representation of satan, nor do they worship him, or feel it's possible for satan to "possess" someone.


Possession is a whole different topic of Satan tenets and beliefs.

We were talking about if Satan really existed or not, and many ppl in this thread claim he doesn't. I think a worshipping Satanist would beg to differ.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:28 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by TranceEnding



I have no real interest or attraction to the ideals of the Church of Satan, but does anyone think these beliefs are necessarily evil ??
yes, not overtly though.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:33 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I would say these are Satatnist attributes, and not helping the less fornunate, vengence not turning the other cheek.
I wouldn't say ppl of this ilk are completely "harmless".



1) Not helping the less fortunate does not equal harming them.

2) Sounds kinda like "an eye for an eye.."




Quote:
Possession is a whole different topic of Satan tenets and beliefs.

We were talking about if Satan really existed or not, and many ppl in this thread claim he doesn't. I think a worshipping Satanist would beg to differ.

dbs
Diamond, Diamond. Sigh. Did you not read what I quoted before? Here it is again:

The CoS' Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. Satan is viewed as a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, demonic possession, and profound evil.

I'm saying that to them, he doesn't exist in the way that many Christians believe, and it certainly doesn't sound like they feel he's all powerful, or has the ability to take possession of a human.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:35 PM   #197
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I just find this kind of topic confusing (but interesting ) I think it may be too complicated to simply slap on a good or evil label on anything

I don't really believe in the Devil/Satan as a spiritual entity and find it hard to believe that people can be 'possessed' ... however, I just thought that when people are filled with the holy spirit, or in a 'rapture' ... maybe this is a polar opposite to some sort of demonic possession?

Just rambling
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:41 PM   #198
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if you want to give a name to the darker, more indulgent (for lack of a better word) side of human nature, and then call that Satan, by all means, go ahead.

likewise, if you want to call the belief that there is something more to existence than flesh, and call that God, by all means, go ahead.

but don't talk to me about actual personifications of such things.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:51 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by TranceEnding
I just find this kind of topic confusing (but interesting ) I think it may be too complicated to simply slap on a good or evil label on anything

I don't really believe in the Devil/Satan as a spiritual entity and find it hard to believe that people can be 'possessed' ... however, I just thought that when people are filled with the holy spirit, or in a 'rapture' ... maybe this is a polar opposite to some sort of demonic possession?

Just rambling

I acknowledge that Satan exists but don't believe in him.

When a person feels the Holy Spirit, that person usually feels warm happy and fuzzy and perhaps peaceful inside; like you get doing Yoga, praying or meditating sometimes.

A Satanist is usually hooked on a powerful feeling, always wanting to be #1, and is usually angry, scheming and coniving-never satisfied, because their appetites are never met, they want more-like an addict.

A person feeling an uninvited feeling of Satan or bad spirit will usually feel a coldness around them and an oppressive feeling-based on what I've read.

A possesed person is usaually trapped and totally engulfed and over taken by a satanic spirit from what I've read and researched.

dbs
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:53 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
if you want to give a name to the darker, more indulgent (for lack of a better word) side of human nature, and then call that Satan, by all means, go ahead.

likewise, if you want to call the belief that there is something more to existence than flesh, and call that God, by all means, go ahead.
I think we can agree on those two points.



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