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Old 01-07-2003, 09:21 PM   #41
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lol bama, I'll keep up the good work. *salute*

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Old 01-07-2003, 09:24 PM   #42
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To be quite honest, if the Democrats don't stop this utter foolishness and stop playing the race card, they may actually piss me off to the point that I will never vote for them again. It isn't our fault that a disproportionate number of minorities and poor people serve in the military; nobody held a gun to their head when they went to the recruiters' offices. It is their fucking job, for God's sake! They even get a salary.

Conyers is pissing me off too. Lucky for him that he wasn't my representative in Michigan, because he wouldn't get my vote in the future. Just when I thought we would be able to get past this race crap.

I never thought I would say this openly, but the Bush Administration officials are right: we *do* have a well-trained volunteer army, and forcing people into the military via a draft serves no purpose, except for political wrangling.


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Old 01-07-2003, 09:32 PM   #43
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To the benefit of the Democrats, I do not think that this stunt by Rangel and now Conyers is reflective of the Democratic members of Congress or even the Congressional black caucus, and most people will realize this. It is simply a ploy to make people think about the sacrifice of war AND the racial balance of the volunteer standing military troops. Although I understand their concern over the issue, I strongly disagree with their tactic.

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Old 01-08-2003, 03:44 PM   #44
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Originally posted by U2Bama
Although I understand their concern over the issue, I strongly disagree with their tactic.

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Old 01-08-2003, 06:38 PM   #45
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Rumsfeld: No Need for Draft; 'Disadvantages Notable'
By Kathleen T. Rhem
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7, 2003 -- The United States is not going to implement a military draft, because there is no need for it, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said today.

Rep. Charles Rangel said last week he was planning to introduce such legislation in the New Year. Rep. John Conyers Jr. has since expressed support.

"I believe that if those calling for war knew their children were more likely to be required to serve -- and to be placed in harm's way -- there would be more caution and a greater willingness to work with the international community in dealing with Iraq," Rangel wrote in a recent commentary in the New York Times.

Rumsfeld dismissed the notion out of hand during a Pentagon press briefing. "I don't know of anyone in this building or in the administration who thinks that anyone ought to go to war lightly," he said. "I know the president doesn't, and I know I don't."

The country doesn't need a draft because the all-volunteer force works -- in fact, the United States has the most effective military in the world precisely because it is all-volunteer, Joint Chiefs Chairman Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers said.

"(The all-volunteer force is) efficient; it's effective; it's given the United States of America, the citizens of this great country, a military that is second to none," Myers said.

"The people that are in the armed services today are there because they want to be there and are ready and willing and, without any question, capable of doing whatever the president may ask," Rumsfeld added.

The secretary described "notable disadvantages" to having a conscripted force. He said people are involuntarily forced to serve, some for less than they could earn on the outside. There are many exemptions, which change all the time, thus providing for unfair situations. Troops are "churned" through training, serve the minimum amount of time and leave -- thus causing more money to be spent to churn more draftees through the system.

He also dismissed the notion that the all-volunteer force leads to a disproportionate number of blacks and other minorities being killed in battle.

"I do not know that that's historically correct," Rumsfeld said. "And I do not know that, even if it were historically correct, that it's correct today."

He and Myers kept coming back to their bottom line: America is better off for the force it has today.

"We have people serving today -- God bless 'em -- because they volunteered," Rumsfeld said. "They want to be doing what it is they're doing. And we're just lucky as a country that there are so many wonderfully talented young men and young women who each year step up and say, 'I'm ready; let me do that.'"
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Old 01-08-2003, 11:36 PM   #46
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20/20 is doing an episode on the Draft issue tonight.

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Old 01-09-2003, 12:29 PM   #47
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They should pass a law saying that inorder to be a member of Congress you must have a child in the service, leave the rest of us out of it.
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan
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Old 01-09-2003, 12:59 PM   #48
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There are many laws that apply to the general population, that do not apply to the members of Congress.....
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Old 01-14-2003, 08:46 PM   #49
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Defense disputes racial imparity
By Bill Gertz

The Pentagon yesterday disputed assertions by two congressmen who seek a reinstatement of the draft that blacks are assigned to disproportionate numbers of combat positions. Top Stories
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"Blacks tend to be concentrated in administrative and support jobs, not in combat jobs," the Pentagon report says. "This is in sharp contrast to the situation in a draft force."
The 11-page report says blacks make up 21 percent of the enlisted force, but only 15 percent of infantry, armored and artillery units. Blacks are about 12 percent of the overall population.
The report was made public in response to calls last week for reinstituting the draft by lawmakers who claimed that military burdens fell unfairly to minorities and the underprivileged.
In support and administrative jobs, blacks account for 36 percent of all U.S. military personnel, and 27 percent of all medical and dental personnel in the armed forces.
The report was produced by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness to highlight the benefits of the all-volunteer force, which proponents said had resulted in the most professional military in American history.
"Contrary to myth, data show that the enlisted force is quite representative of the civilian population," the report said, noting the benefits since the draft ended in 1973.
The report stated that casualties in the 1991 Persian Gulf war were consistent with racial representation in combat and noncombat jobs.
Blacks made up 23 percent of the 550,000 U.S. troops deployed to the Gulf and accounted for 17 percent of the combat and noncombat deaths.
Whites made up 71 percent of U.S. forces during the Gulf war and accounted for 76 percent of the deaths. Hispanics made up 4 percent of the forces and took 4 percent of the deaths in the conflict.
Two black Democrats, Reps. Charles B. Rangel of New York and John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, introduced legislation last week to reinstate the draft, claiming that minorities and poor people were disproportionately represented in the nation's military, while affluent families were underrepresented.
"For those who say the poor fight better, I say give the rich a chance," Mr. Rangel said.
Mr. Rangel opposes the Bush administration's push for a war to disarm Iraq and wants Congress to pass a draft law to create what he regards as a more-representative military force.
The Defense Department report said today's professional military is not manned mostly by poor and uneducated troops.
"Today, black recruits closely parallel their representation among the youth population," the report said. "As with all [volunteer force] recruits, these young men and women are high school graduates with above-average aptitude; they are not the 'poor and uneducated.'"
The report said that 32 percent of recruits come from homes where the father is a high school graduate, compared with 31 percent of the general population in the same age group.
Also, 21 percent of the recruits have fathers who have at least a college education, compared with 30 percent of the general population for the same age group.
The report praised the benefits of an all-volunteer military force over a conscripted force.
"The all-volunteer force has served the nation for more than a quarter-century, providing a military that is experienced, smart, disciplined and representative of America," the report said.
The volunteer force lets the military build more advanced weapons because the service members are smarter and better-trained. Draftees quit the service early, requiring larger numbers and more training.
"With a conscripted force comes higher personnel turnover, which results in substantial costs," the report said. "Shorter enlistment terms, characteristic of a draft, result in high personnel turnover and a degradation in unit stability and performance."
Training costs are higher with a draftee military, thus reducing warfighting preparedness, the report said.
"With a volunteer military comes a more motivated force," the report said. "Data show that people perform better if they are true volunteers than if they are coerced into military service."
Many of today's military leaders are veterans of the Vietnam War and oppose the draft because of problems with draftees during the conflict.
A senior defense official who briefed reporters said the military leadership was "horrified" by congressional proposals to reinstate the draft.
"No one wants to go back to a situation where the people didn't want to serve; in fact, might have been hostile to the purposes to which they were put," the official said.

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