Death and the G8

humble guy · 07-20-2001, 03:05 PM

I am currious to views of others as to the reasons for the protests and the manner in which these protests are conducted and responded to. So many times the message gets lost in the sensationalism...
Thanks

[This message has been edited by humble guy (edited 07-20-2001).]

Klodomir · 07-21-2001, 11:00 AM

As I understand it, it was an Italian man who was part of a violent demonstration attacking a police van. When he threw a fire extinguisher at the van, the police shot him and apparently proceeded to run him over with a jeep.

It's a very sad story. Another life lost, and for what?

While not defending the horrible actions of the Italian police, I will say this: These things wouldn't happen if people didn't use politics or football as an excuse for acting out their aggressions. Violent demonstrations rarely have anything to do with the matter at hand. The way it looks to me, this man did not die for any "cause", only for the aggression of himself, his fellow protesters and the Italian police.

Whether he gets anything done, at least Bono is there talking, not bashing people's heads in.

Klodomir · 07-21-2001, 11:06 AM

I just found this article:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001...debt_dc_1.html

80sU2isBest · 07-21-2001, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klodomir:
As I understand it, it was an Italian man who was part of a violent demonstration attacking a police van. When he threw a fire extinguisher at the van, the police shot him and apparently proceeded to run him over with a jeep.

The Dallas Moning News hd photos this morning. The man that was shot wasn't actually doing the worst of the violence. In the same picture is one man shoving a huge wooden plank through the window of the police vehicle (which has officers inside, and another man has a big pole and is about to do the same.

My question is this; as I understand it, this meeting is about debt relief, right? And as I understand it, the G8 all seem to be in support of this, right? So what are the protestt for? maybe I don't have the full picture. If I don't, will someone please fill me in? Thanks.

U2Bama · 07-21-2001, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
My question is this; as I understand it, this meeting is about debt relief, right? And as I understand it, the G8 all seem to be in support of this, right? So what are the protestt for? maybe I don't have the full picture. If I don't, will someone please fill me in? Thanks.

I've been wondering that too. Of all of the media coverage I've read, the only "protestors" seem to represent one of 2 camps of theory: (1) they want the G8 nations to convert to anarchy, or (2) they want the G8 nations to convert to totalitarian communism.

I'm not bashing the protestors; I just hope that someone can give me an idea of what it is the protestors are seeking. Thanks.

~U2Alabama

Klodomir · 07-21-2001, 03:28 PM

So far there has been no report of what this particular group was protesting against. All that has been said was that they were anti-globalization protesters, but that's basically an umbrella term for all protests taking place at the summit.

I'm more than happy to bash the violent groups (maybe bash is not the appropriate term here, but I'm sure you know what I mean), because they are as usual ruining it for everybody else. Once again, the peaceful protests are overshadowed by a few hooligans who only show up to fight. We see it again and again. Anarchists and autonomists will show up wherever there are TV cameras and pick fights with anyone who crosses their path. At elections and referendums they will try to start riots, later claiming that they spontaneously reacted to outcome of the election or referendum, but time and again we see that they had carefully planned their attacks in advance.

As I said before, it is very sad that this young man died, but it is also sad that the people working hard at achieving results at the summit may not be able to do their best work because of this.

80sU2isBest · 07-21-2001, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klodomir:
that has been said was that they were anti-globalization

Really? So am I.

but you won't catch me throwing stuff at officers or anyone!

Klodomir · 07-21-2001, 05:52 PM

I don't think anyone in their right mind would. That's why I'm saying that it's just an excuse.

Rono · 07-22-2001, 02:12 AM

Hi there,

Sorry to say this, it seems the only way to make
your point clear to the selfprotecting politicians
of the G8 country`s. They only intrested to stay
rich at the cost of poor country`s. Big company`s
need low wage country`s to make more profit.
Oke, the G8 promised some exstra money to the third
world but now actions at the ~ drop the debt ~.

------------------
I can`t change the world but i can
change the world in me.

Read you, Rono.

erok · 07-22-2001, 02:50 AM

The protesers are all anti-globalization and communists. ("in theory, communism works Lisa."...Simpsons anyone?) They think the G8 summit is some sort of conspiricy of global control, which it isn't.

While it's sad that a person had to die, he/she will become a martyr for this movement...which is exactly what these prostesters want. They're all paranoid about "globalization". This is not the purpose of the G8 summit. It's nothing more than a meeting of the minds.

These people have been listening to too much Art Bell.

Klodomir · 07-22-2001, 04:18 AM

Rono, do you really think that violence is going to make them change their minds?

Anyway, I don't care what they say their political agenda is, to me they're just a bunch of thugs.

Rono · 07-22-2001, 07:14 AM

Klodomir, No but i understand it.

Yes, all people that are concerned about the future
of the world are communists and misguided people.
Erok, you are right

Damn, i am angry

------------------
I can`t change the world but i can
change the world in me.

Read you, Rono.

anitram · 07-22-2001, 09:13 AM

Violence ruins compromise. Simple as that.

bonofnattic · 07-22-2001, 06:24 PM

I don't know what to think. How much of the "globalization paranoia" is really just paranoia? From what I've read/heard, these people fear the power of the WTO because of their seemingly unlimited ability to override national & international laws in order to increase their own profit potential. NO, I DIDN'T hear this on ART BELL! Anyway, if the above is true, which I really have no idea what is true regarding the WTO & G8 issues because it may BE paranoia-only,...oops, anyway, if the above IS true, then we should all be concerned. I guess my biggest concerns are that Corporations would give little or no regard to environmental issues with no legal consequences to said Corporations. They get more wealthy, & thus more powerful, & the rest of us can just take-a-leap. Am I paranoid?

Manu Chao · 07-22-2001, 09:20 PM

Speaking of violence in protests, I was in Quebec for the Summit of the Americas... being there is actually another world from "seing it on TV" or only thinking of it. I was like thatg before.. "violence during a protest is useless and is for loosers".. now I say "nah... those actions are on the moment". People there believe in their cause, my cause as well that I share with them. Medias, surprisingly (I could demonstrate by Quebec) showed the extreme minority who were there only to make useless violence.

There, I tell you, you've got a wall to protect leaders of countries. This wall represents, to me and to the protesters, the kinda "now that we're elected, fuck off" politicians. It's a symbol to protesters. Tearing it appart (as I did in Quebec) is not violent in my opinion.

Then, you've got police throwing you gas for, a lot of time, no reasons. Police is another symbol. People are there for many reasons, many causes.... environment, debt relief.. even the "Angry Grannies" are there, religious people, priests, socialists, communists, anarchists of course, even capitalist people as I saw in Quebec (with great surprise).. all those people, for different causes and ideas and beliefs are linked to one objective : change things to make them better. And we all feel that we're thrown off a system that is imposed by governments and corporation.
As I read in a book by a I-don't-remember-who philosopher... "Democract-socialists fight with ideas... corporatives and the actual system fights with money". This thought could be the closest feeling you can get in a protest like that.

It's completely different when you are there.

------------------
=HJ Clandestino=

Pis si � moins y'en avait moins de pauv' cr�tins
Pr�ts � mourir pour la Patrie
Kalishnikov et compagnie
Pour faire rouler l'�conomie
~~Cuba clandestino, Marijuana illegal~~

bonofnattic · 07-23-2001, 12:38 AM

Bono is pissed because he said that the violence ruined meetings between African leaders & the G8 leaders. He said that violence is never right & that it is "ok to bang your fist on the table, but it's never ok to put your fist in the face of your enemy, whether you are a protestor or the police." (paraphrased) That's the most sensible thing I've heard regarding anger towards the rich nations. I didn't realize that Bono & Geldof were there discussing debt relief.

Klodomir · 07-23-2001, 03:38 AM

I didn't really want to bring Bono into this, but I completely agree with what he said.

Holy John, this is happening all over the world now, so I'm sure almost all of us have seen it, and are not only thinking about it or watching on TV. I myself have seen violent protests, and I have seen how they achieved nothing and only ruined it for the peaceful protesters who can actually speak in coherent sentences, as opposed to these Neanderthal warriors. I'm not saying that the G8 summit would have solved all the world's problems if it hadn't been disrupted like this, but if they had just been able to take one more tiny step in the right direction, that's more than what the violent protesters have achieved, namely nothing.

humble guy · 07-26-2001, 07:07 PM

Thank you all for your comments.

07-20-2001, 03:05 PM	#1
humble guy Babyface Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 0 Local Time: 06:13 AM	Death and the G8 I am currious to views of others as to the reasons for the protests and the manner in which these protests are conducted and responded to. So many times the message gets lost in the sensationalism... Thanks [This message has been edited by humble guy (edited 07-20-2001).] __________________

07-21-2001, 11:00 AM	#2
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	As I understand it, it was an Italian man who was part of a violent demonstration attacking a police van. When he threw a fire extinguisher at the van, the police shot him and apparently proceeded to run him over with a jeep. It's a very sad story. Another life lost, and for what? While not defending the horrible actions of the Italian police, I will say this: These things wouldn't happen if people didn't use politics or football as an excuse for acting out their aggressions. Violent demonstrations rarely have anything to do with the matter at hand. The way it looks to me, this man did not die for any "cause", only for the aggression of himself, his fellow protesters and the Italian police. Whether he gets anything done, at least Bono is there talking, not bashing people's heads in. __________________

07-26-2001, 07:07 PM	#18
humble guy Babyface Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 0 Local Time: 06:13 AM	Thank you all for your comments. __________________

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07-21-2001, 11:06 AM	#3
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	I just found this article: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2001...debt_dc_1.html

07-21-2001, 03:28 PM	#6
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	So far there has been no report of what this particular group was protesting against. All that has been said was that they were anti-globalization protesters, but that's basically an umbrella term for all protests taking place at the summit. I'm more than happy to bash the violent groups (maybe bash is not the appropriate term here, but I'm sure you know what I mean), because they are as usual ruining it for everybody else. Once again, the peaceful protests are overshadowed by a few hooligans who only show up to fight. We see it again and again. Anarchists and autonomists will show up wherever there are TV cameras and pick fights with anyone who crosses their path. At elections and referendums they will try to start riots, later claiming that they spontaneously reacted to outcome of the election or referendum, but time and again we see that they had carefully planned their attacks in advance. As I said before, it is very sad that this young man died, but it is also sad that the people working hard at achieving results at the summit may not be able to do their best work because of this.

07-21-2001, 05:52 PM	#8
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	I don't think anyone in their right mind would. That's why I'm saying that it's just an excuse.

07-22-2001, 02:12 AM	#9
Rono Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,163 Local Time: 07:13 AM	Hi there, Sorry to say this, it seems the only way to make your point clear to the selfprotecting politicians of the G8 country`s. They only intrested to stay rich at the cost of poor country`s. Big company`s need low wage country`s to make more profit. Oke, the G8 promised some exstra money to the third world but now actions at the ~ drop the debt ~. ------------------ I can`t change the world but i can change the world in me. Read you, Rono.

07-22-2001, 02:50 AM	#10
erok Babyface Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 4 Local Time: 06:13 AM	The protesers are all anti-globalization and communists. ("in theory, communism works Lisa."...Simpsons anyone?) They think the G8 summit is some sort of conspiricy of global control, which it isn't. While it's sad that a person had to die, he/she will become a martyr for this movement...which is exactly what these prostesters want. They're all paranoid about "globalization". This is not the purpose of the G8 summit. It's nothing more than a meeting of the minds. These people have been listening to too much Art Bell.

07-22-2001, 04:18 AM	#11
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	Rono, do you really think that violence is going to make them change their minds? Anyway, I don't care what they say their political agenda is, to me they're just a bunch of thugs.

07-22-2001, 07:14 AM	#12
Rono Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 6,163 Local Time: 07:13 AM	Klodomir, No but i understand it. Yes, all people that are concerned about the future of the world are communists and misguided people. Erok, you are right Damn, i am angry ------------------ I can`t change the world but i can change the world in me. Read you, Rono.

07-22-2001, 09:13 AM	#13
anitram Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NY Posts: 18,918 Local Time: 02:13 AM	Violence ruins compromise. Simple as that.

07-22-2001, 06:24 PM	#14
bonofnattic The Fly Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Memphis, TN, 38104 Posts: 226 Local Time: 06:13 AM	I don't know what to think. How much of the "globalization paranoia" is really just paranoia? From what I've read/heard, these people fear the power of the WTO because of their seemingly unlimited ability to override national & international laws in order to increase their own profit potential. NO, I DIDN'T hear this on ART BELL! Anyway, if the above is true, which I really have no idea what is true regarding the WTO & G8 issues because it may BE paranoia-only,...oops, anyway, if the above IS true, then we should all be concerned. I guess my biggest concerns are that Corporations would give little or no regard to environmental issues with no legal consequences to said Corporations. They get more wealthy, & thus more powerful, & the rest of us can just take-a-leap. Am I paranoid?

07-22-2001, 09:20 PM	#15
Manu Chao Babyface Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Montr�al, Qu�bec, Canada Posts: 23 Local Time: 06:13 AM	Speaking of violence in protests, I was in Quebec for the Summit of the Americas... being there is actually another world from "seing it on TV" or only thinking of it. I was like thatg before.. "violence during a protest is useless and is for loosers".. now I say "nah... those actions are on the moment". People there believe in their cause, my cause as well that I share with them. Medias, surprisingly (I could demonstrate by Quebec) showed the extreme minority who were there only to make useless violence. There, I tell you, you've got a wall to protect leaders of countries. This wall represents, to me and to the protesters, the kinda "now that we're elected, fuck off" politicians. It's a symbol to protesters. Tearing it appart (as I did in Quebec) is not violent in my opinion. Then, you've got police throwing you gas for, a lot of time, no reasons. Police is another symbol. People are there for many reasons, many causes.... environment, debt relief.. even the "Angry Grannies" are there, religious people, priests, socialists, communists, anarchists of course, even capitalist people as I saw in Quebec (with great surprise).. all those people, for different causes and ideas and beliefs are linked to one objective : change things to make them better. And we all feel that we're thrown off a system that is imposed by governments and corporation. As I read in a book by a I-don't-remember-who philosopher... "Democract-socialists fight with ideas... corporatives and the actual system fights with money". This thought could be the closest feeling you can get in a protest like that. It's completely different when you are there. ------------------ =HJ Clandestino= Pis si � moins y'en avait moins de pauv' cr�tins Pr�ts � mourir pour la Patrie Kalishnikov et compagnie Pour faire rouler l'�conomie ~~Cuba clandestino, Marijuana illegal~~

07-23-2001, 12:38 AM	#16
bonofnattic The Fly Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Memphis, TN, 38104 Posts: 226 Local Time: 06:13 AM	Bono is pissed because he said that the violence ruined meetings between African leaders & the G8 leaders. He said that violence is never right & that it is "ok to bang your fist on the table, but it's never ok to put your fist in the face of your enemy, whether you are a protestor or the police." (paraphrased) That's the most sensible thing I've heard regarding anger towards the rich nations. I didn't realize that Bono & Geldof were there discussing debt relief.

07-23-2001, 03:38 AM	#17
Klodomir Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 1,198 Local Time: 07:13 AM	I didn't really want to bring Bono into this, but I completely agree with what he said. Holy John, this is happening all over the world now, so I'm sure almost all of us have seen it, and are not only thinking about it or watching on TV. I myself have seen violent protests, and I have seen how they achieved nothing and only ruined it for the peaceful protesters who can actually speak in coherent sentences, as opposed to these Neanderthal warriors. I'm not saying that the G8 summit would have solved all the world's problems if it hadn't been disrupted like this, but if they had just been able to take one more tiny step in the right direction, that's more than what the violent protesters have achieved, namely nothing.