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Old 01-08-2002, 06:31 PM   #1
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Death

I have been rather quiet recently because my partner has been incredibly ill, but it wasn't until two days ago that she passed away.

Naturally, anyone who has ever lost anyone close to him or her will have asked certain questions about life, death, and the meaning to it all, if there is any.

I'd like to know what thoughts you have on death. Is it fair? Should one be afraid of it? Does a person have a choice? What do you do when someone close to you dies? Is it wrong of you to blame or hate God, or whomever it was responsible for the death?

Death; what's it all about?

Ant.
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Old 01-08-2002, 06:40 PM   #2
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I don't know you very well, but I'm so so sorry for the death of your partner. What sad news to see or hear about anywhere, when someone you love is taken away.

I don't have the answers (who does really?) and I feel awkward even trying to pose my thoughts or opinions in your thread. I don't know why...

God bless and keep your chin up in these times. I can't imagine what you must be going through, but know that there's people that are going to be keeping you in their thoughts tonight.

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Old 01-08-2002, 06:41 PM   #3
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I just wanted to express my deepest sympathies. I feel totally inadequate to try and throw some sort of literary remedy your way but I just wanted you to know how sorry I am.
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Old 01-08-2002, 07:15 PM   #4
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Anthony, you have my deepest sympathies. I cannot even fathom what you must be going through, but, in time, I hope things get better.

On death, perhaps it was my fairly stoic upbringing, but I do not see it in an incredibly morbid manner. Death is the natural cycle of life; of birth to death. It is something, perhaps regrettably but still reality, that we will all know one day or another. The variables, of course, are when and how.

Why death and not immediate eternal life? I will not be so idiotic to bring up something like original sin, whereas "death" is a punishment for something the first humans did thousands upon thousands of years ago that we must be punished for. On the contrary, the question must be asked if "death" is a punishment whatsoever. But to answer the meaning of "death" inevitably cannot be answered until the meaning of "life."

And what is life? Is it a not-so-simple combination of chemicals and electric pulses or a temporary residence for a divine soul? My own beliefs and my own experiences make me believe in the latter, and, as such, I don't blame or hate God for death. Inasmuch as I've studied science and genetics, in fact, I've learned how fragile the human condition truly is. How one gene can mean the difference between "normal" and cancerous. How chaotic going from a sperm and an egg to a human really is. How, in early stages of fetal growth, we are nearly identical to several different species of mammals looks-wise. And all I really thought, after seeing all this, was how improbable life really seems to be at times. And just how lucky I feel to have known it.

Death, in too many ways, seems to be that anticlimactic ending to the plans we had set. But, like much anything else, it is inevitable. Like life, death is a lesson in itself. Without knowing sadness, could one identify happiness? Could this, perhaps, be a lesson you must learn yourself? And it is a question that few of us can answer; a question that cannot really be answered without learning the meaning of "life" itself.

Anyway, I really hope that you don't take any of this as "insensitive." I just wrote this, perhaps, because you have reminded me a lot of myself at times, and I know that, in the most oddest of ways, a message like this would comfort me. If I am wrong and have made things worse, then I apologize and please disregard all I have written.

Take care...

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
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Old 01-08-2002, 08:56 PM   #5
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I think Melon hit a lot of things right on the head. I found myself agreeing (I know that's weird). Anyways, I lost my son, my father, my brother, 2 grandfathers and a grandmother to death. While I didn't blame God, I certainly questioned him after a few of these.
I hate death, and I hate change. The two really go heand in hand, don't they?
But I believe in an afterlife with my Lord Jesus Christ. That is a great hope, indeed.
Peace be upon you, and may the God of Comfort do so in this time.
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Old 01-08-2002, 09:21 PM   #6
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My sympathies are with you as well, Anthony. We are all here if you need anyone to talk to.

Regarding my views on death: pretty much what melon & 80sU2IsBest said.

~U2Alabama
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Old 01-08-2002, 09:24 PM   #7
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Anthony I am so sorry for your loss, and the pain you are going through. My hear aches for you. It will be 3 years this February that I lost my father, and I am still grieving for him. All those questions you asked are normal, and that is all part of grief. In helping me to understand the whole grief process, I saw a grief counselor who was a big help to me in understanding my feelings. I know that you hurt like hell now, but please take care of yourself. It will get better with time. And remember that is no set time with grief.
From one who has been there.
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Old 01-08-2002, 10:11 PM   #8
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Anthony, My deepest condolences and sympathies. I know it is from a person you have never met, nor will probably ever be in contact with, but I do want to tell you that you are in my prayers.


Ah yes... Death, the only thing that an arrogant man fears, Seriously though, I find it also (like melon) to be a hugely anticlimactic event mostly because we're never sure what is coming next. Melon If I remember you're catholic , and it's soo weird, because Here we are sitting, enjoying life, but living our life for death, and it's the biggest leap of faith. I mean, I believe, but sometimes when you step back and look at it from a non religion point of view.. say from that of an insect.. You live, you die, and you become the ground/soil.. It's quite a cunundrum.. if tha'ts spelled right, And You know, i guess it's at that moment, that I realize, It's supposed to be a huuuge mystery, a Huge unknown, because what have you.. IT's Faith.. The name of a bodacious.. yes i jsut wrote bodacious .. country music singer, an out of date one hit wonder metal group.. No More that is, and oh yeah.. The newest scent from Bath and Body Works.

Prayers and Thoughts,

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Old 01-08-2002, 11:04 PM   #9
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I won't try to address this subject.

Peace be with you all.
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Old 01-08-2002, 11:14 PM   #10
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Death is an adventure that I am looking forward to most of the time. I'm sorry to hear about your losing your partner. It must hurt a whole lot... Please take care.

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Old 01-08-2002, 11:23 PM   #11
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I just lost my grandmother this weekend...although it's not exactly what you're going through, I feel your pain. The thing that helps me get through is knowing that she has merely shed her earthly skin and gone on to something greater. She will forever be my grandmother...whether or not she animates her body or is celebrating in Kingdom Come. She will always live on..just as your partner shall...not matter what state...

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Old 01-09-2002, 01:49 AM   #12
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I'm so sorry to hear this, Anthony. I have nothing profound to say, but I'm thinking of you.
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Old 01-09-2002, 09:06 AM   #13
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An -
My condolences. Like others on the Interference, I too have lost many close relations to death. And for the most part, we may have questioned our faith in God, but realized that death is just part of life.

Find some support amongst others around you, and (although I hate this), keep your head up.
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Old 01-09-2002, 09:23 AM   #14
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Oh my goodness Anthony Im so sorry to hear!!!!!!

My sincere sincere condolences to u........



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Old 01-09-2002, 10:23 AM   #15
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I'm so sorry to hear of your loss Anthony. I don't feel like there is anything I could possibly say that would be appropriate.
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Old 01-09-2002, 03:01 PM   #16
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Hello,
Im so sorry to hear about your partner pasing away.

Death scares me, I cant say its fair or not fair because its life, we cant prevent it, sooner or later it will happen, the only thing i find unfair about it is how quickly someone you love can pass away so young, if there is a God out there I cant understand why he takes such young and innocent lives, really though can anyone really understand death,its one of those things, we can all guess what its like but nobody really knows...

Again im very sorry to hear about your unfortunate news even though ive never spoken to you before, please come and post and tell us how you are doing
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Old 01-12-2002, 06:04 AM   #17
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Thank you everyone for your sympathies and your prayers,they were much needed and they are certainly cherished. I am sorry for not responding sooner, but as you can imagine I did have funeral arrangements and other family business to take care of. Of course, I haven't altogether finished with that, but I'm trying to carry on with Life as normal, but with a slight difference; if anything is certain, Life does go on. I don't say it 'must' go on, but it certainly does.

I thank you all who commented, and to those who didn't want to in consideration of 'offending' or not being appropriate, I DID request it because I did want to know what you thought about, that was the way I thought I could get myself together. I am quite weak in the sense that I only respond to ideas and, hopefully, logic, I try to approach this thing called 'mourning' with an approach based on ideas. It may not be the best way to do it but its all I've got.

Melon;
Thank you so much for your wisdom, as always it was appreciated. You were right, of course, about everything; expecially in thinking that I would appreciate a post like yours and find it comforting - it certainly worked and I hope I can reciprocate if the Time, God forbid, is ever needed.

The truth is I haven't really felt the same about concepts such as Life and Death since she got ill back in August (U2 made it slightly more bearable, we went to see them here in London for what was meant to be the last time for her)and wondered how on Earth it was going to be like. The fact is, as you pointed out, matters such as Life and Death are so frail, so complex that they are hard to define or approach, or even feel anything about. I don't presume to know anything, all I know is what I feel, and the feelings aren't very constructive. Though I know I shouldn't, I am angry. Its not a constructive emotion as it is just an anger directed at anything that is responsible for this, yes including God. Though I don't deny his existence, I am not sure about Heaven. Though I always claimed to not believe in Heaven, I always thought there was a place, but now I am not so sure; I don't know what I believe in.

Anyway, thank you very much to all of you, and now, in an attempt to carry on with Life, I'm going to post a few replies on all those threads that have been pissing me off.

Ant.

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Old 01-12-2002, 06:49 AM   #18
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Hey Ant, I was just wondering about heaven, too, so I created this thread http://forum.interference.com/u2feed...ML/000930.html just recently. I guess you missed it, then, since you've been away, and I hope it helps you somehow? As for me, sometimes I get torn between two opinions: one, is I really look forward to leaving this life and finding out what comes next. Like I said before, it looks like an adventure and I have absolutely no regrets about my life. The only thing that scares me about death is the physical pain that comes with it, therefore, I'd rather die in my sleep cos I'm a physical coward ! On the other hand, I also think about whether I've fulfilled what God wanted me to do with my life. I mean, when I'm near death, do I fight it because I still have much to do in life, or do I resign to it?? I guess I'll only know when it happens.

Those are my thoughts and I feel bad about talking all about me while you are grieving but you said it's what you wanted so here it is . Take care, Ant.

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Old 01-12-2002, 12:47 PM   #19
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Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't have anything to say really except I firmly believe in an afterlife...
God bless, and take care of yourself please..


------------------
In the night of death, hope sees a star and listening love can hear the rustle of a wing.
~Robert Ingersoll
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Old 01-12-2002, 01:17 PM   #20
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Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I can relate as well. I, too, am grieving the loss of my best friend of more than 20 years. He was a deeply spiritual gay man who in many ways was the love of my life, having never experienced the deep connection with a lover than I had with him as a friend. He was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer on October 2, given 5-10 months to live, but died just 29 days later, peacefully, easily, painlessly. That part was a blessing.

But the grief is nearly unbearable at times. My own spiritual beliefs differ quite considerably from most of the people on this forum. I follow an esoteric spiritual path and I believe that the purpose of life and death is for soul to rediscover itself (a process known as Self-Realization) and ultimately merge back into its source (the Divine) much like the drop merges into the ocean. So while I miss my friend terribly, I am more or less at peace with the process itself. He had no fear and no anger, and viewed it as the most important spiritual experience.

So it's great for him but it sucks for me. Actually, sometimes I'm quite jealous of him, that he is free of the limitations that still plague me. Yet, it is for all of us to experience as well, when our own hour comes, and come it will.

Anger is a natural response to such a sudden loss, and I screamed and yelled at God in the car on the 5-hour drive to Denver in November to see U2, just a week after my friend died. I figure if there is a God It is big enough to handle my anger. But each day, I feel more at peace, and ultimately I do believe in the perfection of the cycle of life and death, and all that goes along with that.

I do hope that in time peace will be yours completely.



[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-16-2002).]
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