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Old 01-12-2002, 07:55 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Anthony:
Thank you so much for your wisdom, as always it was appreciated. You were right, of course, about everything; expecially in thinking that I would appreciate a post like yours and find it comforting - it certainly worked and I hope I can reciprocate if the Time, God forbid, is ever needed.
I am quite happy that I was able to help.

I don't presume to know anything, all I know is what I feel, and the feelings aren't very constructive. Though I know I shouldn't, I am angry. Its not a constructive emotion as it is just an anger directed at anything that is responsible for this, yes including God. Though I don't deny his existence, I am not sure about Heaven. Though I always claimed to not believe in Heaven, I always thought there was a place, but now I am not so sure; I don't know what I believe in.
You surely aren't alone in your feelings. As "rational" as we'd all like to be in all occasions, "irrationality" is just as much a part of our design. As I'd like to believe that God is the ultimate rational and loving Being, I think He'll understand you being angry and irrational for a little while.

What is heaven? No one knows for sure. Honestly, most of our conceptions of heaven and hell have been formed by Dante's "Divine Comedy" in the 1400s. However, I'd like to think that heaven is whatever would make us truly happy. For some, I think that is true union with God (similar to the Buddhist concept). For others, I think it might simply be a utopian version of Earth. But, perhaps, it could be anything.

I don't know how much any of this helps, but the reason why I believe in heaven, hell, and, yes, purgatory is not because of the Bible or even tradition, but, in my dreams, I think I've seen these places. Of course, I cannot prove it whatsoever, but, if my dreams are correct, heaven truly exists and is a fantastical place beyond imagination.

Anyway, hang in there. Take time out for yourself and don't fear irrationality and anger. I think, in the course of what has happened, what you're feeling is natural.

Take care...


"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

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Old 01-13-2002, 02:27 AM   #22
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl:
Anthony, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I can relate as well. I, too, am grieving the loss of my best friend of more than 20 years. He was a deeply spiritual gay man who in many ways was the love of my life, having never experienced the deep connection with a lover than I had with him as a friend. He was diagnosed with advanced lung cancer on October 2, given 5-10 months to live, but died just 29 days later, peacefully, easily, painlessly. That part was a blessing.

Anger is a natural response to such a sudden loss, and I screamed and yelled at God in the car on the 5-hour drive to Denver in November to see U2, just a week after my friend died. I figure if there is a God It is big enough to handle my anger. But each day, I feel more at peace, and ultimately I do believe in the perfection of the cycle of life and death, and all that goes along with that.


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Old 01-13-2002, 02:36 AM   #23
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Old 01-15-2002, 06:20 PM   #24
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Thank you foray, it was a useful thread which I had not read previously, as I had been away for a while as you can imagine.

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Old 01-21-2002, 04:05 PM   #25
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I just now saw your post, and I wanted to join everyone in saying that I am sorry for your loss.

Be sure to lean on us and U2 if you need it. We're always here to listen.

With deepest sympathy,
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Old 01-21-2002, 09:41 PM   #26
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Hi Anthony,
First, a big hug because you need it.
It will be nine years next month since my husband's father and sister were killed in a car crash. I still think of them almost every day. While my situation is in no way like yours, I did learn some valuable things from my experience. I learned that we can never, ever ask God why. Things happen and we more than likely will never know why. There are reasons for what happens, but to question God is futile. Trust Him. I also learned that time passes and is a vital part of your healing. You WILL heal, but allow yourself as much time as you need. All of 1993 is a blur to me, but that time was spent recovering and healing. Let time work for you. Every day will take you farther from the pain. The third thing I learned is that you can never go back to the way you were before. You will always be changed by this experience, so trying to make yourself "normal" again is pointless. Learn from it; make it part of you.

I hope I didn't ramble, and I hope I made sense.

Take care of yourself, Anthony, and let others take care of you. You need to be taken care of, and those who love you need to take care of you.
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Old 01-22-2002, 06:38 PM   #27
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Some years ago I lived in San Francisco for the summer with my grandmother. There I met two men, Josh and Pawel, who were gay lovers who both had HIV. I stayed with them for a week and had the time of my life. It opened my eyes VERY wide though (I was 15 at the time). We went to AIDS clinics with people holding signs saying things like "AIDS is God's way of killing (insert derrogative term here)". I remained very close to Josh.
Last December, Josh became quite ill and he never really recovered. In early February, he had been in the hospital for 4 weeks with a t-cell count of 30% of what you or I would have. Taking the advice of a friend I went out and saw him. He died 3 days later.
I couldn't believe the pain I was feeling. I felt alone, that nobody could understand it. I had never had anybody die before. I cried for a long time, and sometimes I still do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have a small understanding of where you are. I extend my condolences and wish you better times to come. If you need anything, feel free to post again, we're all here for you.

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Old 01-23-2002, 10:47 AM   #28
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Beautiful story, Lilly. I, too, have lost a few friends to AIDS. Can you imagine protesting outside a cancer clinic with signs like that? Such ignorance and cruelty in the name of God. Anyway, I'm very sorry for your loss.

[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 12:20 PM   #29
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[This message has been edited by foray (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 10:02 PM   #30
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Anthony, very sorry to hear of your loss...
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Old 01-23-2002, 10:11 PM   #31
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Anthony, I was crying right before I read this thread and now I've started crying once again. Originally I was crying about how I have no freaking idea what's going to happen in my life. I'm at a crossroads, where uncertainy is the only certainy. I guess you could say that we're going through the same thing in the sense that both of us are faced with a future that could take any direction. We are faced with changes that will inevitably make or break us. Death is one of those changes that not only effects the deceased, but also people like you and me who have to witness and live with their absence.

I with you, brother. And remember that changes can lead to better things. (That's probably the last thing you want to hear right now, but consider that it might be true). Love and peace out...

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Old 01-23-2002, 10:34 PM   #32
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this is incredibly sad news.
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Old 01-24-2002, 05:45 AM   #33
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Ive read this thread about 5 times now and every time couldn't bring myself to reply. Each time I've wished I could say something to you to take away the teeniest amount of the pain you're going through, but I knew I couldn't.
I myself am struggling to still come to terms with the death of my father 20 months ago. I am none the wiser on death, I still don't understand it and question every day why my father had to get cancer and why he was taken from us so quickly before we even had the chance to get used to the idea.
I have been selfish and let it overcome me at times. Ive let my family down adn probably my mother at times.
Trying to understand why it happens or what kind of a God would leave a 10 year old little girl without a father to grow up with can be consuming.
We all deal in our own ways. Its up to you to decide if you are strong enough to allow yourself to grieve the way you need to, not the way others say you should.
I dont have the answers but if you ever want to talk email me anytime at

Take care of yourself Anthony
Peace to you,
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Old 01-24-2002, 09:55 AM   #34
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So sorry to hear about your loss..I literally had tears in my eyes reading what happened..I didn't know your partner was sick.

A new life will begin for her in heaven. She'll watch over you now..

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Old 01-24-2002, 06:27 PM   #35
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Hey Danospano;

I can understand what you're going through, with the whole 'crossroads' point in your life, though I haven't really gotten to that point (I have just started University) just yet, this sort of emotional process always seems to arrive when heavy stuff goes on in your life. And yes, I feel it too.

Thanks for your words, thanks for everybody's; I'm overwhelmed by the humanity displayed and I really can't thank people enough for being so understanding. Thanks to you too, zooropamanda, and you Bonovista... and to everyone.

Thank you's aside, I originally intended for this to be a debating thread, where people would talk about their ideas. I realise that now that I must have been thinking some very strange things (and I HAVE been thinking some very strange things, so its no real surprise) and I realise that you can't really separate your thoughts from your feelings in times like this, if anyone can then please tell me how.

The other day when someone was trying to be helpful and said 'oh well, its all for the best...' I lost my temper rather rudely, and I wasn't justified, atleast, not if you knew what I did in response. However, I thank everyone for not saying 'its all for the best'. A new life filled with wonderful things ahead may be in order, I don't really know or care, however, the last thing that I think is true is 'its all for the best'.

It meant a lot to me, and again, thanks.

Foray, thank you too. I will respond to you, but my hotmail is acting dearranged.

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Old 01-24-2002, 06:36 PM   #36
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Coming in a bit late, but I just wanted to say like everyone else that I'm very sorry for your loss, and my thoughts/prayers are with you. Take care.

Love was never a single emotion


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