Dangerous historical mistakes repeating themselves?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Mrs. Edge

Bono's Belly Dancing Friend
Joined
Jun 5, 2001
Messages
2,913
Location
Torontonian in Maryland
This article was forwarded to me by my father, who lived through WWII in Holland (who has some amazing stories of how they were starving and eating tulip bulbs, taking turns running a bicycle to get electricity, etc.) from a website called commondreams.org (I had never heard of it before).

I just thought that it was kind of interesting, scary, and has FYM all over it! I hope this won't get people up in arms, that's not the idea of my posting it. Of course some of these analogies don't apply, but enough of them do to give one pause. (the bit about the celebrities, being labeled "un German" if you didn't agree, etc etc...)


When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann

The 70th anniversary wasn't noticed in the United States, and was barely reported in the corporate media. But the Germans remembered well that fateful day seventy years ago - February 27, 1933. They commemorated the anniversary by joining in demonstrations for peace that mobilized citizens all across the world.

It started when the government, in the midst of a worldwide economic crisis, received reports of an imminent terrorist attack. A foreign ideologue had launched feeble attacks on a few famous buildings, but the media largely ignored his relatively small efforts. The intelligence services knew, however, that the odds were he would eventually succeed. (Historians are still arguing whether or not rogue elements in the intelligence service helped the terrorist; the most recent research implies they did not.)

But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted. He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world. His coarse use of language - reflecting his political roots in a southernmost state - and his simplistic and often-inflammatory nationalistic rhetoric offended the aristocrats, foreign leaders, and the well-educated elite in the government and media. And, as a young man, he'd joined a secret society with an occult-sounding name and bizarre initiation rituals that involved skulls and human bones.

Nonetheless, he knew the terrorist was going to strike (although he didn't know where or when), and he had already considered his response. When an aide brought him word that the nation's most prestigious building was ablaze, he verified it was the terrorist who had struck and then rushed to the scene and called a press conference.

"You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in history," he proclaimed, standing in front of the burned-out building, surrounded by national media. "This fire," he said, his voice trembling with emotion, "is the beginning." He used the occasion - "a sign from God," he called it - to declare an all-out war on terrorism and its ideological sponsors, a people, he said, who traced their origins to the Middle East and found motivation for their evil deeds in their religion.

Two weeks later, the first detention center for terrorists was built in Oranianberg to hold the first suspected allies of the infamous terrorist. In a national outburst of patriotism, the leader's flag was everywhere, even printed large in newspapers suitable for window display.

Within four weeks of the terrorist attack, the nation's now-popular leader had pushed through legislation - in the name of combating terrorism and fighting the philosophy he said spawned it - that suspended constitutional guarantees of free speech, privacy, and habeas corpus. Police could now intercept mail and wiretap phones; suspected terrorists could be imprisoned without specific charges and without access to their lawyers; police could sneak into people's homes without warrants if the cases involved terrorism.

To get his patriotic "Decree on the Protection of People and State" passed over the objections of concerned legislators and civil libertarians, he agreed to put a 4-year sunset provision on it: if the national emergency provoked by the terrorist attack was over by then, the freedoms and rights would be returned to the people, and the police agencies would be re-restrained. Legislators would later say they hadn't had time to read the bill before voting on it.

Immediately after passage of the anti-terrorism act, his federal police agencies stepped up their program of arresting suspicious persons and holding them without access to lawyers or courts. In the first year only a few hundred were interred, and those who objected were largely ignored by the mainstream press, which was afraid to offend and thus lose access to a leader with such high popularity ratings. Citizens who protested the leader in public - and there were many - quickly found themselves confronting the newly empowered police's batons, gas, and jail cells, or fenced off in protest zones safely out of earshot of the leader's public speeches. (In the meantime, he was taking almost daily lessons in public speaking, learning to control his tonality, gestures, and facial expressions. He became a very competent orator.)

Within the first months after that terrorist attack, at the suggestion of a political advisor, he brought a formerly obscure word into common usage. He wanted to stir a "racial pride" among his countrymen, so, instead of referring to the nation by its name, he began to refer to it as "The Homeland," a phrase publicly promoted in the introduction to a 1934 speech recorded in Leni Riefenstahl's famous propaganda movie "Triumph Of The Will." As hoped, people's hearts swelled with pride, and the beginning of an us-versus-them mentality was sewn. Our land was "the" homeland, citizens thought: all others were simply foreign lands. We are the "true people," he suggested, the only ones worthy of our nation's concern; if bombs fall on others, or human rights are violated in other nations and it makes our lives better, it's of little concern to us.

Playing on this new nationalism, and exploiting a disagreement with the French over his increasing militarism, he argued that any international body that didn't act first and foremost in the best interest of his own nation was neither relevant nor useful. He thus withdrew his country from the League Of Nations in October, 1933, and then negotiated a separate naval armaments agreement with Anthony Eden of The United Kingdom to create a worldwide military ruling elite.

His propaganda minister orchestrated a campaign to ensure the people that he was a deeply religious man and that his motivations were rooted in Christianity. He even proclaimed the need for a revival of the Christian faith across his nation, what he called a "New Christianity." Every man in his rapidly growing army wore a belt buckle that declared "Gott Mit Uns" - God Is With Us - and most of them fervently believed it was true.

Within a year of the terrorist attack, the nation's leader determined that the various local police and federal agencies around the nation were lacking the clear communication and overall coordinated administration necessary to deal with the terrorist threat facing the nation, particularly those citizens who were of Middle Eastern ancestry and thus probably terrorist and communist sympathizers, and various troublesome "intellectuals" and "liberals." He proposed a single new national agency to protect the security of the homeland, consolidating the actions of dozens of previously independent police, border, and investigative agencies under a single leader.

He appointed one of his most trusted associates to be leader of this new agency, the Central Security Office for the homeland, and gave it a role in the government equal to the other major departments.

His assistant who dealt with the press noted that, since the terrorist attack, "Radio and press are at out disposal." Those voices questioning the legitimacy of their nation's leader, or raising questions about his checkered past, had by now faded from the public's recollection as his central security office began advertising a program encouraging people to phone in tips about suspicious neighbors. This program was so successful that the names of some of the people "denounced" were soon being broadcast on radio stations. Those denounced often included opposition politicians and celebrities who dared speak out - a favorite target of his regime and the media he now controlled through intimidation and ownership by corporate allies.

To consolidate his power, he concluded that government alone wasn't enough. He reached out to industry and forged an alliance, bringing former executives of the nation's largest corporations into high government positions. A flood of government money poured into corporate coffers to fight the war against the Middle Eastern ancestry terrorists lurking within the homeland, and to prepare for wars overseas. He encouraged large corporations friendly to him to acquire media outlets and other industrial concerns across the nation, particularly those previously owned by suspicious people of Middle Eastern ancestry. He built powerful alliances with industry; one corporate ally got the lucrative contract worth millions to build the first large-scale detention center for enemies of the state. Soon more would follow. Industry flourished.

But after an interval of peace following the terrorist attack, voices of dissent again arose within and without the government. Students had started an active program opposing him (later known as the White Rose Society), and leaders of nearby nations were speaking out against his bellicose rhetoric. He needed a diversion, something to direct people away from the corporate cronyism being exposed in his own government, questions of his possibly illegitimate rise to power, and the oft-voiced concerns of civil libertarians about the people being held in detention without due process or access to attorneys or family.

With his number two man - a master at manipulating the media - he began a campaign to convince the people of the nation that a small, limited war was necessary. Another nation was harboring many of the suspicious Middle Eastern people, and even though its connection with the terrorist who had set afire the nation's most important building was tenuous at best, it held resources their nation badly needed if they were to have room to live and maintain their prosperity. He called a press conference and publicly delivered an ultimatum to the leader of the other nation, provoking an international uproar. He claimed the right to strike preemptively in self-defense, and nations across Europe - at first - denounced him for it, pointing out that it was a doctrine only claimed in the past by nations seeking worldwide empire, like Caesar's Rome or Alexander's Greece.

It took a few months, and intense international debate and lobbying with European nations, but, after he personally met with the leader of the United Kingdom, finally a deal was struck. After the military action began, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain told the nervous British people that giving in to this leader's new first-strike doctrine would bring "peace for our time." Thus Hitler annexed Austria in a lightning move, riding a wave of popular support as leaders so often do in times of war. The Austrian government was unseated and replaced by a new leadership friendly to Germany, and German corporations began to take over Austrian resources.

In a speech responding to critics of the invasion, Hitler said, "Certain foreign newspapers have said that we fell on Austria with brutal methods. I can only say; even in death they cannot stop lying. I have in the course of my political struggle won much love from my people, but when I crossed the former frontier [into Austria] there met me such a stream of love as I have never experienced. Not as tyrants have we come, but as liberators."

To deal with those who dissented from his policies, at the advice of his politically savvy advisors, he and his handmaidens in the press began a campaign to equate him and his policies with patriotism and the nation itself. National unity was essential, they said, to ensure that the terrorists or their sponsors didn't think they'd succeeded in splitting the nation or weakening its will. In times of war, they said, there could be only "one people, one nation, and one commander-in-chief" ("Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer"), and so his advocates in the media began a nationwide campaign charging that critics of his policies were attacking the nation itself. Those questioning him were labeled "anti-German" or "not good Germans," and it was suggested they were aiding the enemies of the state by failing in the patriotic necessity of supporting the nation's valiant men in uniform. It was one of his most effective ways to stifle dissent and pit wage-earning people (from whom most of the army came) against the "intellectuals and liberals" who were critical of his policies.

Nonetheless, once the "small war" annexation of Austria was successfully and quickly completed, and peace returned, voices of opposition were again raised in the Homeland. The almost-daily release of news bulletins about the dangers of terrorist communist cells wasn't enough to rouse the populace and totally suppress dissent. A full-out war was necessary to divert public attention from the growing rumbles within the country about disappearing dissidents; violence against liberals, Jews, and union leaders; and the epidemic of crony capitalism that was producing empires of wealth in the corporate sector but threatening the middle class's way of life.

A year later, to the week, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia; the nation was now fully at war, and all internal dissent was suppressed in the name of national security. It was the end of Germany's first experiment with democracy.

As we conclude this review of history, there are a few milestones worth remembering.

February 27, 2003, was the 70th anniversary of Dutch terrorist Marinus van der Lubbe's successful firebombing of the German Parliament (Reichstag) building, the terrorist act that catapulted Hitler to legitimacy and reshaped the German constitution. By the time of his successful and brief action to seize Austria, in which almost no German blood was shed, Hitler was the most beloved and popular leader in the history of his nation. Hailed around the world, he was later Time magazine's "Man Of The Year."

Most Americans remember his office for the security of the homeland, known as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt and its SchutzStaffel, simply by its most famous agency's initials: the SS.

We also remember that the Germans developed a new form of highly violent warfare they named "lightning war" or blitzkrieg, which, while generating devastating civilian losses, also produced a highly desirable "shock and awe" among the nation's leadership according to the authors of the 1996 book "Shock And Awe" published by the National Defense University Press.

Reflecting on that time, The American Heritage Dictionary (Houghton Mifflin Company, 1983) left us this definition of the form of government the German democracy had become through Hitler's close alliance with the largest German corporations and his policy of using war as a tool to keep power: "fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."

Today, as we face financial and political crises, it's useful to remember that the ravages of the Great Depression hit Germany and the United States alike. Through the 1930s, however, Hitler and Roosevelt chose very different courses to bring their nations back to power and prosperity.

Germany's response was to use government to empower corporations and reward the society's richest individuals, privatize much of the commons, stifle dissent, strip people of constitutional rights, and create an illusion of prosperity through continual and ever-expanding war. America passed minimum wage laws to raise the middle class, enforced anti-trust laws to diminish the power of corporations, increased taxes on corporations and the wealthiest individuals, created Social Security, and became the employer of last resort through programs to build national infrastructure, promote the arts, and replant forests.

To the extent that our Constitution is still intact, the choice is again ours.

Thom Hartmann lived and worked in Germany during the 1980s, and is the author of over a dozen books, including "Unequal Protection" and "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight." This article is copyright by Thom Hartmann, but permission is granted for reprint in print, email, blog, or web media so long as this credit is attached.
 
Thank you for posting that, it was very interesting and thought-provoking. I've looked at the commondreams website before and it definitely has some interesting material. I don't necesssarily agree with all of it, but there's certainly plenty to learn and think about there.
 
People will get upset with this comparison.

But the parallels are there.

Most Germans believed their nation?s actions were justified.

No one compared GW Bush to this person in the first year of his presidency. No one compared Clinton, or even Bush 1.

It is the actions of this Administration that cause one to consider reevaluating if the US is on the right course.
 
Actually, I wasn't sure if I should put it in the War section, but since it kind of encompasses more than that...more like a comparison that begins with 9-11, I thought this would be the right place.

Just as a footnote, I asked my dad to clarify something about this terrorist in 1933 (I thought maybe the terrorist came from Austria) because I had never heard about any of this before....this is the problem with our coles notes history curriculum I guess. Below was his response.

Oh, and in case you think my dad was comparing Bush to Hitler by sending me this article in the first place...quite the opposite as you will see. (I guess he has the same sorts of mixed feelings about the war that I do...but he gives Bush quite a bit more credit than I do!) ;)

Yes, the so-called "terrorist attack" was a fire set by a Dutch Jew in the "Reichstag", or German Parliament. The writer of the article meant you to confuse that fire with the attack on the World Trade Centre, 9/11. Yes, Hitler used this incident to get hysterical over "enemies of the State", and it was his first major chance to become a popular leader in Germany. No, no, the Dutch guy came from Amsterdam (I think), and he has nothing to do with Austria, but it was Hitler who decided to annex Austria, the so-called "Anschluss", and make that independent State a part of Greater Germany (Hitler being himself an Austrian by birth).

Thank you for taking an interest in these matters. Yes, it IS kind of
spooky, isn't it? My own "spin" on the recent Iraqi events is to think of Bush as a leader, admirable for "taking out Saddam" against everybody's wishes. If we had had a Bush in 1936, or something, when the Germans, on Hitler's orders, overran the "Rhineland" in direct contravention of the Versailles Treaty, the French and the British should have attacked Germany
immediately, and Hitler, still nowhere near as powerful as he was to become later, would have been "removed", and the Second World War might never have happened, and 6,000,000 Jews might have lived out their natural lives, and millions of soldiers and civilians might have lived without being slaughtered by that madman.

So did Bush do the right thing? In a way - yes. In another way - no. I listen to Tony Blair also, and wonder why he is so strongly on Bush's side? Is he trying to take out Saddam the way Britain
ought to have taken out Hitler? I don't know, of course. But as we all know, the hard part comes right now: what is going to happen to Iraq?
 
This should *not* go in the War forum. I hope it doesn't get moved. It goes way beyond the war to a whole slew of security and other related issues. I have the same mixed-up, mixed, in general, feelings about the war that alot of people actually do. It's a complex issue with no simple solutions. Very, very difficult stuff to come to grips with. It's fascinating as heck for a chronic history student, that's for sure. That's why it's anything but dull for me.
 
oh popyycock.
PIX.001=2001.10.11.Bush.jpg


:up:
:dance:he has such a nice look.. :)
 
diamond, WTF does that have to do with this article or this thread?

Sometimes, I just get really tired here. :|
 
Mrs. Edge said:
Yes, the so-called "terrorist attack" was a fire set by a Dutch Jew in the "Reichstag", or German Parliament.

I've never heard before that Van der Lubbe was a Jew. He was believed to be a communist. Not that it matters that much, as communists were also one of Hitler's big enemies. Whatever really happened (there are stories that there was a tunnel from one of Hitler's offices to the Reichstag), Hitler used the fire to get total control.

The writer of the article meant you to confuse that fire with the attack on the World Trade Centre, 9/11. Yes, Hitler used this incident to get hysterical over "enemies of the State", and it was his first major chance to become a popular leader in Germany. No, no, the Dutch guy came from Amsterdam (I think), and he has nothing to do with Austria, but it was Hitler who decided to annex Austria, the so-called "Anschluss", and make that independent State a part of Greater Germany (Hitler being himself an Austrian by birth).

And I believe Hitler was also 1/8th Jewish. Regarding the unification with Austria, this is because of his idea of the Homeland, a single country where all those of German descent can live. He considered Austrians to be equal to Germans, so Austria should become a part of Germany.
The same holds for Chzechoslovakia. He initially proclaimed he only wanted to annex Sudetenland (which is just a part of Chzechoslovakia) as the people there were also 'Germans' and should belong to Germany. Of course, he abandoned this ideology a few years later when he invaded Poland, a country with no German ties whatsoever.

C ya!

Marty
 
martha said:



It was easier than a serious answer that addresses the things brought up in the article.
capt.1049901490.war_us_iraq_northern_front_sulf102.jpg


this pic says alot.:)

this fella or his descendents will never agree w/the premise of this thread..:)

DB9
 
diamond said:
capt.1049901490.war_us_iraq_northern_front_sulf102.jpg


this pic says alot.:)

this fella or his descendents will never agree w/the premise of this thread..:)

DB9

Please, go watch Triumf Des Willens (Triumph Of The Will) or other footage of Hitler giving speeches. You've never seen so many cheering people together. As the original article said (should you've read it), the Austrians were also cheering Hitler when he annexed Austria. With a small seach you may even find a photo almost exactly like the one you posted, only with a different person kissing a different leader.

Marty (who... never mind)

(edited for spelling mistakes)
 
Last edited:
I found the article very though provoking and interesting.
The commonalities are very scary, though not I think not surprising.

I'v often thought of Perle, Wolfowitz and other neoconservatists as so far to the right and mixed with corporate America that they truly are like the Fascist of Germany and Italy.
 
diamond......

It was pretty predictable that your blinding worship of Dubya would prevent you from looking at this article rationally and objectively.

Did you actually READ this article in its entirety? It is about so much more than the war and the freeing of the Iraqis!

As verte said, it has all kinds of implications for every day life way beyond the current war. I don't even see what "straws" you think people are grasping at!

The only "premise" was to show the parallels between Europe in the 30s and the US today. There are differences yes, but also similarities that I think are unnerving...

I don't see this article as anti-US, but a thought provoking cautionary tale based on an observation of historical facts. If there's one thing it's NOT it's Poppycock. Just because this administration can do NO WRONG in your eyes, doesn't mean you have to be so PATRONIZING of everyone else!

:|
 
diamond said:
marty
u and a few others here are grasping at straws.

db9

No, diamond, you are the one avoiding the issue. Your posting of a picture that really has nothing to do with the topic of the article says a lot. Rather than address the real similarities the writer points out, you still hold on to visceral visuals. One picture can indeed say 1000 words, but in your case, it's 1000 words that are meaningless to the discussion here at hand.
 
It would require diamond to be multicultural. How dare we stand between him and his fuhrer. :sexywink:

Joking aside, I would comment more on this, but then I would be revealing too much of my potential thesis topic. If we're all so lucky, I'll get it published...lol.

Melon
 
:angry:

listen to me ya bunch of little chirppers. im working here, i will read this proganda later and give u my most unbiased eloequent diamond opinion.

thank u
DB9
:):angry:
 
diamond said:
:angry:

listen to me ya bunch of little chirppers. im working here, i will read this proganda later and give u my most unbiased eloequent diamond opinion.

thank u
DB9
:):angry:

So if you disagree with something, its automatically labeled poppycock and propoganda and your only argument is to post a picture of GW?

At least give us your reasons why you think its rubbish. I can't wait to read your unbiased, eloquent response :yes:
 
melon said:
M.A.--but I never do anything simple or easy. :sexywink:

Melon

I want to take you out to dinner when it is done!!!!!! North End on me!

Peace
 
I read the article. I do read some of the articles put on Common Dreams, and I find it way left of my political beliefs.

AS to this Article, maybe there are similarities. That said, I do not believe that the US occupation of Iraq to be a permanent thing. It does not = Germanies invasion of Austria.

That said, the security police and homeland information has bothered me from the start. I liked that the Patriot act was a five year deal. It now seems that they want to make it a permanent deal. I do not support this at all. I think there needs to be a congressional check on things. Making it permanent hurts the checks and balances built in.

PEace
 
Back
Top Bottom