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Old 08-31-2005, 04:21 PM   #1
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CWP Carrier Saves a Life

One news story not being flashed across the planet.

Armed good guy saves a person from being stabbed to death:
http://www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=11742
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Old 08-31-2005, 04:23 PM   #2
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[sarcasm] Yeah, the solution to violence is more violence. Obviously. [sarcasm]

Sorry dude but my kind of libertarianism doesn't extend to NRA style gun glorification.
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Old 08-31-2005, 04:47 PM   #3
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"Sorry dude but my kind of libertarianism doesn't extend to NRA style gun glorification."

Sorry financeguy, I did not mean for my post the glorify gun violence.

I live on a farm, in a rural area.

We view guns as a tool, like a shovel, hammer, knife, etc...

It's strange to me that you view my post as some "Gun Glory"
post and not just the story of how a person stopped an evil person from stabbing someone to death.

I live in an area where almost all the residents own firearms.
You wanna guess how many murders we had the past year?

Or ten years...

Our faith and values have a lot to do with our low crime rate,
not the number of guns in our closets.

It's time we start blaming the weapons and evil in hearts,

not inanimate objects.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

I live on a farm, in a rural area.

We view guns as a tool, like a shovel, hammer, knife, etc...

Please explain why you need guns. What aspects of farming require you to possess guns?

I have plenty of friends from farming backgrounds. Most of them manage to get on fine without guns.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:48 PM   #5
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"Please explain why you need guns. What aspects of farming require you to possess guns?"


financeguy,

Again, you do not comment on my original post.

*but we will continue the discussion*

Would you please post a list of tools to kill a pig or cow?

A list of tools to rid your farm of rattlesnakes in the barn or a tool to rid coyotes from killing your sheep, chickens, and other farm critters

*something of a problem in our area*

A firearm is simply a tool.

The evil is not in the tools, but in our hearts.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
Would you please post list of tools to kill a pig or cow?

A list of tools to rid your farm of rattlesnakes in the barn or a tool to rid coyotes killing your sheep?

A firearm is simply a tool.

The evil is not in the tools, but in our hearts.

Well we don't have too many rattlesnakes or coyotes over here so I can't think of a solution to that one I have to admit.

Tools to kill a pig or cow - I really don't know much about farming, but surely in most cases there are ways that don't involve guns?

One thing I would say - I remember a friend of mine who helps to run a farm got into a little dispute over land with some of his fellow farming neighbours some years ago. Fisticuffs almost resulted, but luckily they sorted it out amicably in the end. Had guns been involved, maybe it wouldn't have had a happy ending.
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
A firearm is simply a tool.

The evil is not in the tools, but in our hearts.
Agreed. And that might work fine most of the time in rural areas, but not in big cities.
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:02 PM   #8
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financeguy,

You replied twice,

One reply:

"Agreed. And that might work fine most of the time in rural areas, but not in big cities."


Why?

Did I mentioned something a few posts back about faith and values?
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:07 PM   #9
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Oh look a gun thread

I'm just going to say that, while there might be positive stories out there, the disadvantages of having a gun ridden society by far outweighs the benefits, especially in scaredy-cat America.

And I sure hope you don't think "faith and values" are more prevalent in rural areas?
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
Did I mentioned something a few posts back about faith and values?

Yes you did but the point I am making is these kind of homespun values don't necessarily transfer to big city environments. Maybe they should, but they don't in practice.

I wouldn't like to see more guns in my home city. There is enough gun crime as it is (although still less than in many US cities), even though the law on gun ownership is very restrictive. The penalties for ownership of a gun without a license are high, and personally I would like to see it kept that way.

But anyway I don't really buy the argument that all that are needed are faith and values to keep people from abusing guns.

I know that in rural Ireland in the nineteenth century, most people were very observant in their faith, guns were freely available, and there were plenty of killings involving guns.
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Old 08-31-2005, 06:13 PM   #11
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I think the lower rate of voilence might also have something to do with not always being in close proximity to other people in rural areas. My area is rural, but not super rural, and I can go without seeing other people for days at a time. Hell, someone (a long time resident in the area) commented to me just recently that he didn't even know there was a house back here. It's been here 22 years!
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:37 PM   #12
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No, iron horse, your post doesn't glorify guns.

I am for better gun control but I think this article was clearly a case of a licensed, responsible gun owner being in the right place at the right time.

Rather than sarcastically dismissing this one as "the solution to violence is more violence," I'd suggest we read the details and see that the victim of the stabbing (Joyce Cordova) is in critical condition, and if her ex-husband (who got shot) had been given any more time in his act of massacre, Ms. Cordova may have been fatally beyond critical. Sure, we can call Due Moore's actions "violence," but to me it looks more like an act of defending a woman who was being stabbed by her ex-husband.

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Old 08-31-2005, 07:41 PM   #13
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I will say I think the bastard deserved it.
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:12 PM   #14
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You folk who support the actions of the man with the gun - you're Christians. How on earth does that work? What happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill? Seriously, you are condoning a big mother of a sin. But that's for you and God. Dont mind me pointing out the obvious. But just quickly while we are on that, do folk in your position feel almighty enough to declare who is worthy of life? Of who can be judged and execute actions to that effect? I had believed it was also a sin to do the work of God as well.

But legally. Killing is a crime, yes? Full stop? America doesn't really need police, does it. You lot seem very determined to do it yourself. Oh, even when it is in defence of an absolute innocent person. 'Cause, we can rank people. I like that. I like the idea of me being better or more worthy than someone else. I like the idea [*edit typo] of me being above the law in certain situations.

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Old 08-31-2005, 08:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
No, iron horse, your post doesn't glorify guns.

I am for better gun control but I think this article was clearly a case of a licensed, responsible gun owner being in the right place at the right time.
I'm forced to agree that there are many legitimate uses for guns in rural areas. Not only is it useful for farming, but also hunting. And most all of these people are very responsible gun owners with no problems.

I don't know all the specifics of this situation, but the gun owner was legally in possession of the firearm and has clearly cooperated with authorities. I'll let the police deal with the details.

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Old 08-31-2005, 08:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
You folk who support the actions of the man with the gun - you're Christians. How on earth does that work? What happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill? Seriously, you are condoning a big mother of a sin. But that's for you and God. Dont mind me pointing out the obvious. But just quickly while we are on that, do folk in your position feel almighty enough to declare who is worthy of life? Of who can be judged and execute actions to that effect? I had believed it was also a sin to do the work of God as well.

But legally. Killing is a crime, yes? Full stop? America doesn't really need police, does it. You lot seem very determined to do it yourself. Oh, even when it is in defence of an absolute innocent person. 'Cause, we can rank people. I like that. I like the idea of me being better or more worthy than someone else. I like the idea [*edit typo] of me being above the law in certain situations.

Yes, I am a Christian. I am of the researched conclusion that the originally translated commandment was "Thou Shalt Not Murder." This is a case of a human defending the life of another, as tragic as the consequences may have been. I am not judging any of these people regarding their place in heaven (or wherever they may end up).

You ask me (and people who agree with me, I presume) to confirm that "Killing is a crime." I'll say that murder and manslaughter are crimes. Self defense and, in some cases, acting to defend the life of an innocent persoon, are permissible under the law. Mr. Due Moore acted within the law in this case. I don't really think he used a "ranking" system but probably happened upon a man armed with a knife repeatedly stabbing an unarmed woman, who, most likely, did not want to be stabbed/murdered by the man with the knife. Who in the hell was he to rank his life over hers?

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-31-2005, 09:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

I live in an area where almost all the residents own firearms.
You wanna guess how many murders we had the past year?

Or ten years...

Our faith and values have a lot to do with our low crime rate,
not the number of guns in our closets.

It's time we start blaming the weapons and evil in hearts,

not inanimate objects.
Sorry that has little to do with owning guns, faith, or values and more to do with population per square mile.

My cousin grew up in a rural area where these same guns, faith, values are held and she was murdered at a Valentines Day's dance by a jealous lover. She was 19.

If we look at this article a little harder we could also make the conclusion that if repeat domestic violence offenders and restraining orders were taken a little more seriously we wouldn't have had a woman stabbed.

This isn't your first gun thread, you also called those that weren't allowed to freely shoot stray cats being controlled by the thought police. So there does seem to be a hint of gun glory in your posts.
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Yes, I am a Christian. I am of the researched conclusion that the originally translated commandment was "Thou Shalt Not Murder." This is a case of a human defending the life of another, as tragic as the consequences may have been. I am not judging any of these people regarding their place in heaven (or wherever they may end up).

You ask me (and people who agree with me, I presume) to confirm that "Killing is a crime." I'll say that murder and manslaughter are crimes. Self defense and, in some cases, acting to defend the life of an innocent persoon, are permissible under the law. Mr. Due Moore acted within the law in this case. I don't really think he used a "ranking" system but probably happened upon a man armed with a knife repeatedly stabbing an unarmed woman, who, most likely, did not want to be stabbed/murdered by the man with the knife. Who in the hell was he to rank his life over hers?

~U2Alabama
So who does the ranking of life here? The man with the concealed weapon might not have. To say would be supposing. However, there are people in here who have justified his killing someone else. We can label it under law as whatever we like, and there are certainly differences in murder and manslaughter etc. But really, for some schmoe on the street to do the work of the legal system and also God, I find it a bloody huge stretch.
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Old 09-02-2005, 11:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


So who does the ranking of life here? The man with the concealed weapon might not have. To say would be supposing. However, there are people in here who have justified his killing someone else. We can label it under law as whatever we like, and there are certainly differences in murder and manslaughter etc. But really, for some schmoe on the street to do the work of the legal system and also God, I find it a bloody huge stretch.
Well, I'm not a Christian, so I'm not worried about sin, but to me people who commit domestic violence are lower than the scum on the bottom of a rock and if one gets blown away while stabbing a victim in Walmart that's just too damned bad. Too bad more of them don't meet the same fate.
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:27 PM   #20
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It's great that her life was saved, but i'm not sure i like the idea of people carrying guns with them at the wal-mart
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