Creationism isn't Right

[anitram]

They can only be referring to Original sin. From whence all human suffering can be traced.

I'm sorry but either recessive genes result in mutations and congenital defects or they do not. Their statement that there is more "sinning" these days and that's why we can't procreate with our siblings is rather self-explanatory.

I also really enjoyed their discussion re: dinosaurs. Apparently they turned carnivorous AFTER the fall. And as for their pointy teeth? That wasn't to eat meat, it was to crack coconuts open! AKA absurd.

 

[BEAL]

Except that it doesn't sum up the theistic position very well at all. Personally, I believe in God, and Jesus and all that stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the Bible is true. I view the Garden Of Eden as a parable as do I much of especially the Old Testament stuff. You're painting a huge group of people with a very broad brush if you are saying we all believe that God appeared in the burning bush.

This was more geared towards those who believe the literal word of the bible.

And i don't see how you can believe in Creationism, yet not take the bible at it's word.

 

[martha]

.There isn't much evidence

 

[anitram]

So the page number matters? Or the fact that you look down on believers because some whack job said that birth defects come from sin matters?

I simply wanted to see whether those of you advocating creationism believe in this stuff. That's why I asked 2861U2 what he thought of it.

Is it tolerant of you to refer to those of the creation museum as "whack jobs?" But it's intolerant of the rest of us to think creationism is scientific garbage?

 

[DublinGuy]

Europeans are arguably free-er than Americans are.

Europe is a wonderful place to live.

i woudl argue that what holds Europeans back is not religion, or lack of religion, but on sclerotic cultural notions of what it means to be French, or German, or Italian. blood-and-soil understandings of nationality are increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century. this is where America has always done well -- we have no myth of origin. we are not from the soil of our nation. we are all immigrants, to an extent.

Nice point. I definitely think that people in Western Europe possess greater freedom than US citizens in general and I'm very glad to live in Europe but your point regarding nationality in Europe may be a valid one. Without wanting to sound too like Bono, the idea of diversity and everyone being an immigrant in the US is a great one. It just seems like a pity that things haven't quite worked out as hoped for by your 'founding fathers'.

 

[hardyharhar]

All the answers have been waiting for us here at interference all along? Why have I been wasting so much time watching Oprah.

I will now alert the media

 

[Snowlock]

This was more geared towards those who believe the literal word of the bible.

And i don't see how you can believe in Creationism, yet not take the bible at it's word.

I never said I believe in Creationism.

 

[INDY500]

Europeans are arguably free-er than Americans are.

Europe is a wonderful place to live.

i woudl argue that what holds Europeans back is not religion, or lack of religion, but on sclerotic cultural notions of what it means to be French, or German, or Italian. blood-and-soil understandings of nationality are increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century. this is where America has always done well -- we have no myth of origin. we are not from the soil of our nation. we are all immigrants, to an extent.

Actually, many of our founders regarded America as a "Second Israel." Thomas Jefferson (that little Deist) wanted the United States seal to depict the Jews leaving Egypt...as Americans left Europe.
Imagine that!

 

[BEAL]

Since I'm at work I'm not spending all that much time reading every word every person has said. Just skimming.

So if I put you in a bubble that you don't belong in, I'm sorry.

 

[Snowlock]

I simply wanted to see whether those of you advocating creationism believe in this stuff. That's why I asked 2861U2 what he thought of it.

Is it tolerant of you to refer to those of the creation museum as "whack jobs?" But it's intolerant of the rest of us to think creationism is scientific garbage?

yeah. There are degrees and context in everything; every day. It's called perspective. There are those of us who follow science until that road ends and then turn to religion to explain the world and our place in it. That doesn't mean that we also believe dancing is a sin or deformed babies come from watching HBO.

 

[deep]

you look down on believers because a whack job

hey,

all work is honorable

 

[DublinGuy]

Except that it doesn't sum up the theistic position very well at all. Personally, I believe in God, and Jesus and all that stuff, but I'm not sure how much of the Bible is true. I view the Garden Of Eden as a parable as do I much of especially the Old Testament stuff. You're painting a huge group of people with a very broad brush if you are saying we all believe that God appeared in the burning bush.

I was speaking mainly of the individuals who do take it literally. Due to my being inept in terms of posting here the quote that I thought would be included didn't end up in my post! My main point was that the person who said be believed that God spoke to Jesus because it's too great not to "want to believe" seems to have an unusual belief-forming process, and that this idea of believing something becasue you want to seems to be an integral part of how theistic beliefs are formed for many, not all, theists.

 

[Snowlock]

Sure, but no one here is dfending those religions as the single one with a lock on right and wrong. No one here is saying that they should be brought back into schools. No one here is decrying that loss of their values as the dwonfall of western civilization.

You're completely exaggerating. Why?

 

[INDY500]

yeah. There are degrees and context in everything; every day. It's called perspective. There are those of us who follow science until that road ends and then turn to religion to explain the world and our place in it. That doesn't mean that we also believe dancing is a sin or deformed babies come from watching HBO.

 

[Snowlock]

I was speaking mainly of the individuals who do take it literally. Due to my being inept in terms of posting here the quote that I thought would be included didn't end up in my post! My main point was that the person who said be believed that God spoke to Jesus because it's too great not to "want to believe" seems to have an unusual belief-forming process, and that this idea of believing something becasue you want to seems to be an integral part of how theistic beliefs are formed for many, not all, theists.

Believing something because you want to is also a pretty good way to describe faith in general. You'd be a pretty sad lot if you thought faith was a waste of time.

But like I said, and I've sure been guilty as well, you should watch out for painting billions of people with a single brush stroke. Not every believer is a fantatic.

 

[DublinGuy]

Believing something because you want to is also a pretty good way to describe faith in general. You'd be a pretty sad lot if you though faith was a waste of time.

But like I said, and I've sure been guilty as well, you should watch out for painting billions of people with a single brush stroke. Not every believer is a fantatic.

Again, I was speaking about some, not all believers. Why are people who think faith to be a waste of time a sad lot though?

 

[Irvine511]

Actually, many of our founders regarded America as a "Second Israel." Thomas Jefferson (that little Deist) wanted the United States seal to depict the Jews leaving Egypt...as Americans left Europe.
Imagine that!

the wrinkle being that they were escaping religiosity and entering secularism?

seems to perfectly go along with deism.

 

[Irvine511]

You'd be a pretty sad lot if you thought faith was a waste of time.

so you demand the respect from atheists that you'd never extend back to one?

 

[INDY500]

the wrinkle being that they were escaping religiosity and entering secularism?

seems to perfectly go along with deism.

America was founded to be a free nation, not a secular one.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.

I'm sure you've visited the Jefferson Memorial. It's right there, in stone.

 

[diamond]

America was founded to be a free nation, not a secular one.



I'm sure you've visited the Jefferson Memorial. It's right there, in stone.

Correct.

I love how "secular progressives" congregate here and think they are in the majority, makes me giggle.

dbs

 

[Irvine511]

America was founded to be a free nation, not a secular one.

ah, but you can't have one without the other.

and Jefferson knew that.

I'm sure you've visited the Jefferson Memorial. It's right there, in stone.

i have. and Jefferson was pretty far out and brilliant.

i've said that i think the impetous behind the DOI, and Jefferson, is the idea that Bono has talked about -- the idea of the shepherd coming in from the field, smelling of shit, and pointed to the king and saying, "in the eyes of God, i am your equal." revolutionary. moving. powerful. and that idea can be a powerful motivator for social justice -- it's not so much "what if not but for the grace of God that were me" and more "that is me" when we look at the child with AIDS in Africa, when we hear about Iraqi storekeepers have their eyeballs drilled, when there's a cholera outbreak after a mudslide in the Phillippeans.

if we are all from the same place -- God -- then we all have the same rights, and those rights never go away.

beautiful. lovely. i'm a fan.

but that's as far as it goes. Jefferson knew, as did they all know looking back across the water at Europe, that man makes God to fit his institutions. and who's a more powerful authority than God?

hence, we remove man's notions -- and all religion is a man-made notion -- of the Almight/Common Creator/God from the institutions themselves ... but not from the people who manage those institutions ... and, voila, you have tangible freedom and opportunity.

 

[Irvine511]

I love how "secular progressives" congregate here and think they are in the majority, makes me giggle.

i love it when people regurgitate O'Reilly soundbytes.

 

[DublinGuy]

i love it when people regurgitate O'Reilly soundbytes.

Ha, nice one. Secular progressives are useful to any society, be they in the minority or not. That O'Reilly jerk spoke at my college recently. Another ridiculously right-wing Irish-American!

 

[diamond]

I don't picture the pilgrims as a bunch of whistling and skipping secularists.

And that Bill O'Reilly articulates in a name a movement that describes a small cross section of the American population is fine with me, and I do not think he'd take umbridge w me using it here.


dbs

 

[Irvine511]

I don't picture the pilgrims as a bunch of whistling and skipping secularists.

the pilgrims weren't, you're right.

the founding fathers, however -- effete secular progressives if ever there were.

 

[BVS]

I don't picture the pilgrims as a bunch of whistling and skipping secularists.

Diamond needs to take a history lesson.

 

[diamond]

the founding fathers, however -- effete secular progressives if ever there were.

i disagree.

 

[2861U2]

Ha, nice one. Secular progressives are useful to any society, be they in the minority or not. That O'Reilly jerk spoke at my college recently. Another ridiculously right-wing Irish-American!

O'Reilly is neither a jerk nor on the right.

 

[phillyfan26]

O'Reilly is neither a jerk nor on the right.

 

[BVS]

O'Reilly is neither a jerk nor on the right.

Are you kidding? He's a grade A asshole, and he may claim he's an independent but that's just to gain points...