Could I bring the KKK to speak in public schools during Black History Month?

[Ormus]

Because I think that's certainly the precedent that this sets.

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/04/041307schoolsuit.htm

School Sued Over Anti-Gay Protest
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Posted: April 13, 2007 - 7:00 pm ET

(Allendale, New Jersey) An Allendale student is suing Northern Highlands Regional High School alleging it violated his civil rights when it told him he could not organize an event to counter The National Day of Silence - the annual day when LGBT students and their supporters draw awareness to homophobia in classrooms by keeping silent in school.

This year The National Day of Silence will be observed on April 18.

Jason Aufiero, an evangelical Christian and a senior at Northern Highlands, wanted to organize a "Day of Truth" on school grounds to present what his attorney's the conservative Christian Alliance Defense Fund calls the Bible-based position "that homosexual behavior is immoral."

The Arizona-based ADF, in its lawsuit on Aufiero's behalf, alleges that the school and its administrators attempted to derail the event, violating Aufiero's rights to free speech and the free exercise of religion.

The school disputes that it attempted to cancel the event but says it has reservations about some of the material Aufiero intended to distribute on school property.

"He is going to be able to have his Day of Truth and do whatever he is legally entitled to do," Superintendent Robert McGuire told the Daily Record.

McGuire said principal John Keenan had asked Aufiero's parents to come in for a meeting to discuss the event. But they refused, instead going to the ADF to file suit.

Earlier this month a high school in Danbury, Connecticut rescinded its ban on an ex-gay preacher after the AFD threatened to take the school district to court.

The student Bible-study group at Danbury High School had invited Valerie Pinnex, a North Carolina pastor who considers herself to be a "former homosexual", to speak at an event at the school leading up to "The Day of Truth", a conservative Christian response to the Day of Silence.

Danbury High Principal Catherine Richard initially objected saying the event was "too controversial".

After the school caved in to the ADF demand the law firm issued a warning to schools across the country that if they observe The National Day of Silence they face legal action if they bar speakers opposed to homosexuality.

A study released by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network to coincide with last year's National Day of Silence, showed that homophobia is widespread in the nation's schools.

Nearly one-in-five students reported they had been physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation and over a tenth because of their gender expression.

Three-quarters of students surveyed said that over the past year they heard derogatory remarks such as "faggot" or "dyke" frequently or often at school, and nearly nine out of ten reported hearing "that's so gay" or "you're so gay" - meaning stupid or worthless - frequently or often.

Over a third of students said they experienced physical harassment at school on the basis of sexual orientation and more than a quarter on the basis of their gender expression.

The study also showed that bullying has had a negative impact on learning.

So does this mean that white supremacists' civil rights are being violated if racist speakers are barred from speaking in public schools during Black History Month?

Are laws that ban protests during worship services an unconstitutional abridgment of free speech?

Or is this just yet another example of double standards against gays in America?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Ban both, no double standard.

 

[Ormus]

Ban both, no double standard.

So I'm guessing you're not a fan of Black History Month then?

 

[BVS]

Or is this just yet another example of double standards against gays in America?

Just another double standard...

 

[BVS]

Jason Aufiero, an evangelical Christian and a senior at Northern Highlands, wanted to organize a "Day of Truth" on school grounds to present what his attorney's the conservative Christian Alliance Defense Fund calls the Bible-based position "that homosexual behavior is immoral."

What exactly is the immoral homosexual behavior being commited here?

Being silent?

 

[A_Wanderer]

So I'm guessing you're not a fan of Black History Month then?

I have no strong opinion one way or another; but then I have no history to do with it whatsoever.

 

[Ormus]

I have no strong opinion one way or another; but then I have no history to do with it whatsoever.

So unless you're personally affected, we should just summarily ban everything?

 

[A_Wanderer]

No, I as an Australian with no ancestors who came via America I don't have an opinion on Black History Month because it has nothing to do with my countries history or any of my ancestors. Slavery was a shaping force in your country and the history of it encompasses both white and black - for better of worse (thats not a statement of support for slavery). I suppose a comparable issue would be how the Australian public system treats colonisation and aboriginal history and it would be fair to say that it is very politically correct across the board.

Now in the case of public schools and what should be allowable I guess it should be more clearly defined; I don't think that exclusive and bigoted events should be allowed to take place on public property (so no hate groups) and I do think that there is ample precedent of events that are inclusive being held (so allowing speakers against homophobia seems alright) and this drags in the issue of religious freedoms in a US public school so the answer is obvious, call a constitutional lawyer

 

[Ormus]

Now in the case of public schools and what should be allowable I guess it should be more clearly defined; I don't think that exclusive and bigoted events should be allowed to take place on public property (so no hate groups) and I do think that there is ample precedent of events that are inclusive being held (so allowing speakers against homophobia seems alright) and this drags in the issue of religious freedoms in a US public school so the answer is obvious, call a constitutional lawyer

Good. This is a lot more clear than this:

Ban both, no double standard.

 

[maycocksean]

So does this mean that white supremacists' civil rights are being violated if racist speakers are barred from speaking in public schools during Black History Month?

Are laws that ban protests during worship services an unconstitutional abridgment of free speech?

Or is this just yet another example of double standards against gays in America?

I don't know if this would stand up in court, but I'd say prohibit the "Day of Truth" from conducting their event to coincide with the Day of Silence, just out of respect. It seems like such a basic thing, respect. But it seems to be getting lost in the shuffle these days.

As to whether they could hold their event at some other time. . .that's a bit more dicey.

I'm just a little bit disturbed that I sense that various Religious Right legal groups are bringing up issues on purpose in the schools to get their agenda into the public schools (remember the whole 4th grader with the brochures? The whole way the mother handled that just stank of someone trying to create a legal situation). It's not that I don't think it's their right. . .perhaps it is, but to me it is so plainly against the spirit of Christ.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Are laws that ban protests during worship services an unconstitutional abridgment of free speech?

Yes.

 

[phillyfan26]

What exactly is the immoral homosexual behavior being commited here?

Being silent?

That's my question. What are they protesting against?

 

[maycocksean]

Not necessarily. Laws that prevent the DISRUPTION of worship services which is what is suggested here, should not be considered abridgement of free speech.

Laws that prevent silent protesting in front a church, say during a worship service WOULD be an a violation of the protesters free speech.

 

[Ormus]

Re: Re: Could I bring the KKK to speak in public schools during Black History Month?

I don't know if this would stand up in court, but I'd say prohibit the "Day of Truth" from conducting their event to coincide with the Day of Silence, just out of respect. It seems like such a basic thing, respect. But it seems to be getting lost in the shuffle these days.

But should the "Day of Truth" even be allowed in schools at all? I think it comes down to "exclusive" versus "inclusive." This "event" only exists to antagonize, belittle and demean a minority group; in other words, it exists solely to make a mockery out of the sentiments behind the Day of Silence.

And it's that antagonism and mockery that makes me say that it sets a horrible precedent. Racist events coinciding with Black History Month would never be allowed. An event commemorating the anniversary of the Holocaust would never allow a neo-Nazi Holocaust denier to come up afterwards and tell students that the Holocaust never existed. And, yet, here we have a group of fundamentalist Protestants who are essentially demanding their right to both antagonize gays like a racist would during Black History Month and deny the existence of homosexuals, contrary to all credible scientific and psychiatric evidence, like a Holocaust denier would during a Holocaust memorial service.

And that's what makes me so angry about this!

 

[maycocksean]

Yeah, I would also question the appropriateness of such an event at school at any time, but I definitely feel that it would be wrong to have it coincide with the Day of Silence.

 

[MrBrau1]

You do "KKK History Month."

Get the kids versed in important dates and figures in cross burning and lynching history.

 

[Rono]

No, I as an Australian with no ancestors who came via America I don't have an opinion on Black History Month because it has nothing to do with my countries history or any of my ancestors. Slavery was a shaping force in your country and the history of it encompasses both white and black -

Accept for the slave trade that is ofcourse,.....and slave trade is not nothing.

Australia is conected with british history i thought .

 

[Snowlock]

Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to organize mean simply freedom to do so. You can't prohibit someone from that just because you think it's morally wrong. You can't have it both ways. Once you start establishing rules as to what we're "free" to protest against, we're no longer free. It doesn't matter who's protesting what. We have to have that right.

 

[redhotswami]

Why do these fundamentalist groups insist on poisoning the minds of young children who are going to school? Why can't they promote their agendas outside the classroom? I just find it all interesting that public schools now have become such a hot topic. Isn't it more worth their time to annoy those with voting rights?

 

[BVS]

Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to organize mean simply freedom to do so. You can't prohibit someone from that just because you think it's morally wrong. You can't have it both ways. Once you start establishing rules as to what we're "free" to protest against, we're no longer free. It doesn't matter who's protesting what. We have to have that right.

Well you're missing the point...

How many schools allow the KKK?

 

[Axver]

Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to organize mean simply freedom to do so. You can't prohibit someone from that just because you think it's morally wrong. You can't have it both ways. Once you start establishing rules as to what we're "free" to protest against, we're no longer free. It doesn't matter who's protesting what. We have to have that right.

So, it's anarchism for you then, eh?

You do realise there is a difference between freedom and discrimination, don't you?

 

[indra]

Why do these fundamentalist groups insist on poisoning the minds of young children who are going to school? Why can't they promote their agendas outside the classroom? I just find it all interesting that public schools now have become such a hot topic. Isn't it more worth their time to annoy those with voting rights?

Because it's easier and more effective to indroctrinate children than adults.

 

[redhotswami]

Because it's easier and more effective to indroctrinate children than adults.

i dunno...i think the results of the last u.s. presidential election would be an exception.

 

[indra]

i dunno...i think the results of the last u.s. presidential election would be an exception.

...or maybe a case in point. After all, fundie groups have been actively recruiting for decades now. Perhaps Dubya and his ilk are some of the fruits of their labour. I'm often shocked by how conservative, and in many cases rigid, many young people I meet are.

 

[CTU2fan]

Of course it's a double standard.

Historically there's never been freedom of speech inside public schools, from banning books and censoring the school paper to no cussing. I'm interested to see what would happen if that were ever challenged, but my guess is the school will cave just like the Danbury school did.

Oh and speaking of the Danbury situation, what the hell exactly is a "former homosexual"? Did she experiment in college, kiss a girl at a party or something, and is now doing her pennance? I didn't think sexuality was like religion where you can wake up one day & just switch...silly me.

 

[fly so high!]

Accept for the slave trade that is ofcourse,.....and slave trade is not nothing.

Australia is conected with british history i thought .

Yeah.....and your point being?

 

[U2democrat]

The KKK threatened to kill my Dad. Needless to say I'm not so fond of them.

 

[MadelynIris]

Why do these gay rights groups insist on poisoning the minds of young children who are going to school? Why can't they promote their agendas outside the classroom? I just find it all interesting that public schools now have become such a hot topic. Isn't it more worth their time to annoy those with voting rights?

Because it's easier and more effective to indroctrinate children than adults.

i dunno...i think the results of the last u.s. presidential election would be an exception.

Would you all not agree that this issue is still 'political'? I realize that most here would not like it to be political -- but wouldn't you agree, it still is? Therefore, it would still be appropriate for others to protest/excercise free speech?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

There was a similar story recently about a girl/parents who sued because she wanted to wear a t-shirt in "protest" of the day of silence, and there was an issue over what she could say on the tshirt. I had a thread about it, something like "be happy not gay".

It is about homophobia, not homosexuality-and I don't see how it isn't a double standard. There is something fundamentally wrong and sad when promoting understanding and decency on the part of kids/teens towards each other in schools is twisted by some people for their own agendas. It's a day of silence to promote decency towards fellow students (which is necessary considering how some kids/teens treat each other in schools in general, let alone how they might treat gay students), and they act as if all who participate are running around shouting that everyone should be gay and "promoting" homosexuality, whatever that means. Even if anyone did do that, it's not as if heterosexuality isn't promoted constantly in one way or another.

I think allowing racist events and speakers during black history month is a valid comparison. Of course I suppose some would beg to differ and justify that on their belief that gay people choose to be gay, whereas minorities don't choose to be minorities. As if they are choosing the gay "lifestyle" and thus "promoting" it in events such as this. I don't believe that at all, but some people do. Or at least that's how they justify their stance.

 

[MadelynIris]

From the dayofsilence.com website:

DAY OF SILENCE, April 18, 2007: The Day of Silence is an annual event held to bring attention to anti-LGBT bullying, harassment and discrimination in schools. Students and teachers nationwide will observe the day in silence to echo the silence that LGBT and ally students face everyday. In it's 11th year, the Day of Silence is one of the largest student-led actions in the country.

They really make it a point to call out that it's "student-led" indicating that it is not a function of the school itself. Links to "how to organize" etc... on the website would indicate that they expect students and teachers to conduct this based on free speech rights.

Black History month, I think is observed nationally by federal law. Not saying that LGBT issues should not be observed nationally by law, just that they aren't currently (again, still in this political stage).

On a side note, I kind of feel bad for those who are bullied and not LGBT. I guess they have their day... I'm just not sure it's publicized as much.