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Old 05-12-2004, 10:40 AM   #1
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"Conservatives Circle The Torture Wagon"


Conservative media pundits revel in their "personal responsibility" and "stand up like a man" mantras. But when the spotlight shines on one of their own, they quickly become the epitome of the lame stereotypes they have long perpetrated of the whining, sissy-boy left, blaming everyone but themselves for the problems that ail us.

Case in point: After days of silence on the abuse by American soldiers of Iraqi prisoners and the detrimental affect it will have on U.S. national security, the conservative National Review ran a piece online by Jonah Goldberg, trying to offer us some "context" for these crimes.

In Goldberg Land, who do you suppose is to blame for the abuse and the ensuing public relations disaster? Was it the president, for taking us to war based on false claims about weapons of mass destruction, incurring the wrath of Muslims in the region and thus opening us up to even more hatred and violence should something like this abuse occur? Was it Donald Rumsfeld, for doing the war on the cheap, allowing the command to break down, leaving many tasks to civilian private contractors who could operate without any authority and covering up reports of wrong-doing from Congress?
I have a feeling that this article is going to be replaced very soon, as this site does not archive these opinions (precisely why I paste the whole articles, while still linking and giving credit to the author and site). But, since Interference.com looks down on that now, if the above link no longer works, click here.



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Old 05-12-2004, 03:09 PM   #2
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Interesting article, but it's often that way the men who speak about principles and honesty are often the ones who don't have ANY principles but power/money and they have to talk about honesty all the time that people start to beLIEve that they are honest men. And at the moment everyone can see that they are liars it's allways the other ones fault.
For a verry long time it was the communists who were guilty - and on the other side of the world it was all the capitalists fault.
Now it's the terrorists fault or americas fault. People with a lack of honesty and courage never look at themselfes if something went seriousely wrong.

In the end it's a democracy (or republic) we get the government we deserve, the majority of citizen decides if they want to have hyprocrats or not. Most of the time sadly we can only choose between a bad and a even worse candidate.

ps of course all our governemts and soldiers are perfect it's just the evil media, the terrorists, the muslims, the jews, the communists or whatever - choose your favourite reason

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Old 05-14-2004, 09:33 AM   #3
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Did you hear the one where Rush compares rape and beatings to "blowing off steam?"


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Old 05-14-2004, 09:51 AM   #4
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Yeah, right, rapes and beating are "blowing off steam". I guess Rush doesn't give a damn about morality.
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Old 06-19-2004, 02:38 AM   #5
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Old 06-19-2004, 01:05 PM   #6
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BTW, the original article is gone. That's why I like to post the entirety of them; if I hadn't archived the entire article on my own forum, this discussion wouldn't even be capable of being furthered.

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Old 06-19-2004, 05:00 PM   #7
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more of the article

No, the true culprit was CBS.

"Of course, CBS had every right to do what it did," Goldberg wrote, discussing the airing of the photographs of the brutality. "But that's irrelevant. Nobody's suggesting the government should have stopped them. I'm suggesting that CBS should have stopped itself. Now we'll all have to live with the consequencesand some of us will die from them."

In Goldberg Land, "when shocking images might stir Americans to favor war"such as those depicting people jumping from the Twin Towers during the 9/11 attacks and those showing the charred bodies of American civilian contractors in Iraq"the Serious Journalists show great restraint." But, Goldberg claims, "when those shocking images have the opposite effect, the Ted Koppels let it fly."

I don't know about you, but I recall seeing the images of the people jumping from the windows of the Twin Towerson television and certainly in newspapersover and over again, until the families of the victims finally complained to the media about insensitivity and sheer overkill. No one asked for the footage to be censored as a way of inhibiting war, which, in the case of Afghanistan, the vast majority of Americans (including just about every liberal media pundit) were in favor of, and still are to this day. As far as the destruction of the buildings goes, we've seen that from every angle and still do, in news programs and documentaries. And it was on the front page of the New York Timesthe paper that right-wing conservatives view as the Bush-hating, antiwar organwhere I saw the photos of the burned bodies of the contractors a few weeks ago.

Put a hole in one of the conservatives' offensive theories about who's to blame for the brutality of the Iraqi prisoners, however, and they'll spin out yet another one. If it's not CBS and the rest of the "liberal media" that is at fault, then surely it must be Bill Clinton and the homosexuals, right? Last week, I actually heard right-wing radio chat while in a taxi, in which callers and the host agreed that we wouldn't have seen this kind of "homosexual" brutality against the prisoners "if Bill Clinton had not let homosexuals into the military." And if the torturers are not gay themselves, then surely they're a product of the "Clinton era" and its homo-loving policies, says James Taranto, the often idiotic moralizer at the Wall Street Journal's OpinionJournal. A link to Taranto's attempts to blame the barbaric soldiers' actions on the American academic left had me cackling with laughter soon after it came to me in my email box. Get this:

"[I]t also occurs to us that increasing the quality of military recruits would probably help avoid future Abu Ghraibs. One constructive step toward that end would be for elite universities to drop antimilitary policies, so that the military would have an easier time signing up the best and brightest young Americans. Many academic institutions have barred ROTC or military recruiters from campus for left-wing political reasonsfirst as a protest against the Vietnam War, and later over the Clinton-era 'don't ask, don't tell' law. Whatever the merits of these positions, it's time the academic left showed some patriotic responsibility and acknowledged that the defense of the countrywhich includes the defense of their own academic freedomis more important than the issue du jour."

Could anybody make more of a stretch in attempting to demonize those he despises while deflecting criticism of his own? Well, there's always Ann Coulter. Via David Brock's terrific new MediaMatters.org web sitewhich is focused on all of the bile-spewers on the right I found this quote from Coulter, speaking on Fox News and blaming the soldiers' brutality on women. "I think the other point that no one is making about the abuse photos is just the disproportionate number of women involved, including a girl general running the entire operation. I mean, this is a lesson, you know, one million and 47 on why women shouldn't be in the military. In addition to not being able to carry even a medium-sized backpack, women are too vicious."

Similarly, the antifeminist columnist Linda ChavezGeorge W. Bush's one-time Labor Secretary nominee, who withdrew when she was found to be paying an illegal immigrant housekeeper off the bookssuggested that "the presence of women in the unit actually encouraged more misbehavior, especially of the sexual nature that the pictures reveal."

Another conservative finger-pointer seemed to get Rush Limbaugh all hot and sweaty during his week-long quest to downplay the images as nothing more than college fratboy games. Donna M. Hughes, on National Review online, asked, "Why are we shocked by these images from Abu Ghraib, but when the victims are women (or gay men) the images are called pornography or 'adult entertainment'?" Yes, she was attempting to explain and excuse the behaviorand give anti-porn crusader John Ashroft more grist for his twisted millby claiming that the reservists might have engaged in these acts of torture because they'd seen them played out in porn films. (Of course, according to that logic we should ban The Passion of the Christ, because if people played out the sadomasochistic scenes in that film, we'd be taking down bloody crosses from every street corner.)

That got Limbaugh thinking and making some lurid confessions: "If you look at these pictures, you cannot deny that there are elements of homoeroticism I've seen things like this on American websites. You can find these if you have the passwords to these various porn sites, you can see things like this. And [Hughes'] point was maybe these kidsthe soldiers, the guards, whoever, who are of a certain age group, who've grown up with access to this are simply acting out what they've seen on these websites or something, just for the fun of it, or maybe other reasons."

Another crackpot deflection regarding the brutality, to be sure. But now we also know what Limbaugh was doing on those oxycontin-dazed nights: fumbling for his passwords, looking for those homoerotic websites. Live and learn.

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