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Old 10-24-2007, 12:15 PM   #41
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Well, by your line of reasoning, there´s no point in having two different bathrooms for different genders because "we can all control ourselves". Give me a break.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:19 PM   #42
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No-we can have two different bathrooms but, at the same time, we can also control ourselves. We can be private and modest while at the same time being progressive and human rather than animal and see ourselves as such-the two aren't mutually exclusive.

The shower issue is some red herring that some bring up here and it always seems to be regarding a gay issue. Why is that? Are the scoutmasters showering with the Boyscouts?
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:33 PM   #43
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
No-we can have two different bathrooms but, at the same time, we can also control ourselves. We can be private and modest while at the same time being progressive and human rather than animal and see ourselves as such-the two aren't mutually exclusive.

The shower issue is some red herring that some bring up here and it always seems to be regarding a gay issue. Why is that? Are the scoutmasters showering with the Boyscouts?
You´re right in an ideal world everyone will control themselves but in the flawed world we occupy it cannot be expected from the entire population. You have to prevent.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:36 PM   #44
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You´re right in an ideal world everyone will control themselves but in the flawed world we occupy it cannot be expected from the entire population. You have to prevent.
Are you talking about showers or about gay people being allowed in boyscouts? People do bad things because of the kind of people they are, not their sexual orientation-and that is related to this scout issue. There could be straight scoutmasters doing lots of bad things.

I shouldn't walk down a street, because I have to prevent xyz from a nefarious gentleman. Or maybe I should wear a burqa.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:38 PM   #45
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I dunno - I haven't heard much about people raping each other at nudist camps. They seem perfectly capable of not attacking every sexually attractive naked body they see..? I mean, that's a lot of naked body parts out there for the eye to see, and yet, these people manage to get on wonderfully.

Sure, I can see where there'd be discomfort, but if you can't control yourself, then you have a serious problem on your hands. To tell you the truth, I've seen sufficient naked men in my lifetime that the sight of a penis doesn't really do anything for me - it's just there. At worst, I might start laughing just because it looks so silly just dangling there.

Of course, it doesn't help that I work in an animal clinic, where all you see all day are male bits dangling, and have to, with a straight face, explain what neutering is. I mean, literally, I had to explain to this guy over the phone that neutering meant removing the male testicles. Five times, no less, with a client standing there laughing like a lunatic. I was like, "Must. Not. Laugh."
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:50 PM   #46
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Are you talking about showers or about gay people being allowed in boyscouts? People do bad things because of the kind of people they are, not their sexual orientation-and that is related to this scout issue. There could be straight scoutmasters doing lots of bad things.

I shouldn't walk down a street, because I have to prevent xyz from a nefarious gentleman. Or maybe I should wear a burqa.
You can´t talk about one issue without the other one. Like I said before Boy Scouts, like the army, have a lot of intimacy with each other. I know you guys will probably hit the roof with this but just as there´s a boy´s tent and a girl´s tent, in order for things to work correctly there should be a "homosexual" tent.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:56 PM   #47
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well, for one, just because somebody is homosexual does not mean they are trying to hump everyone belonging to their sex. you have to give them more credit than that.

and, why the need for separate tents for homosexuals? are you trying to prevent sex from happening? does having a separate tent for females and males stop them from sleeping together if they really wanted to? after spending my time in the military, i already know the answer to this question.

they are separated by sex because of the physiology and different needs, not because of their orientation.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #48
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they are separated by sex because of the physiology and different needs, not because of their orientation.
I´ve always been under the impression that it has been for both reasons. I´ll try to read more on this but you can go ahead and explain that. I really doubt it was just because of physiology. But I´ll agree with you if you can back up your point.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #49
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People can have intimacy with each other in normal, everyday boring life and work life and social life and not have any sexual actions take place. That includes gay people as well-they are not hypersexual humans, they are just humans like all of us. The extent to which we control our desires is the personal responsibility, as individual human beings. It has nothing to do with man, woman, gay, straight. Like I said, it is a lowly opinion of one's own gender.

I'm not even going to say what I think about a "homosexual tent". My head might explode.
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:04 PM   #50
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I´ve always been under the impression that it has been for both reasons. I´ll try to read more on this but you can go ahead and explain that. I really doubt it was just because of physiology. But I´ll agree with you if you can back up your point.
i'll cut a deal with you. i'll respond to this when you respond to the questions i've asked you in the other thread
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:41 PM   #51
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


You can´t talk about one issue without the other one. Like I said before Boy Scouts, like the army, have a lot of intimacy with each other. I know you guys will probably hit the roof with this but just as there´s a boy´s tent and a girl´s tent, in order for things to work correctly there should be a "homosexual" tent.

guess what?

i shower with boys all the time. i have my whole life. i've shared beds with straight men (and women), and guess what?

i don't want to have sex with any of them.

i don't even get an erection.

and even if i did, i'd know it's inappropriate.

you know why?

because i'm an adult and in control of my body.

i guess you're not?
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:45 PM   #52
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Or maybe I should wear a burqa.


this is, of course, is the logical endpoint of BEB's line of thought.

it's so fucking ridiculous. i get so insulted when straight men assume that gay men act in a locker room in the manner in which they state that they would act in a women's locker room.

again, stop putting your shit on me. i'm sorry you seem to think that all straight men are drooling, panting, erection-having beasts who start to hump the walls and masturbate with the shower soap the minute a body they might be sexually attracted to walks by. it must be so difficult, and i guess you're right, we do need to protect straight women from you guys.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:41 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Irvine511



guess what?

i shower with boys all the time. i have my whole life. i've shared beds with straight men (and women), and guess what?

i don't want to have sex with any of them.

i don't even get an erection.

and even if i did, i'd know it's inappropriate.

you know why?

because i'm an adult and in control of my body.

i guess you're not?

That´s great. This means I can go shower with women because I can control myself. If they don´t feel comfortable showering with me then damn those homophobic bigots.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:42 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


You can´t talk about one issue without the other one. Like I said before Boy Scouts, like the army, have a lot of intimacy with each other. I know you guys will probably hit the roof with this but just as there´s a boy´s tent and a girl´s tent, in order for things to work correctly there should be a "homosexual" tent.
Gay is not a gender.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:43 PM   #55
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That´s great. This means I´m gonna go shower with women because I can control myself. If they don´t feel comfortable showering with me then damn those homophobic bigots.


so, if you feel uncomfortable showering with a homosexual, I should have to leave the locker room and have my own private quarters?
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:44 PM   #56
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so, if you feel uncomfortable showering with a homosexual, I should have to leave the locker room and have my own private quarters?
Of course not, that would be rude, you just can't join the club.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:06 PM   #57
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

That´s great. This means I can go shower with women because I can control myself. If they don´t feel comfortable showering with me then damn those homophobic bigots.
Can we get past showers? Do you think gay men are attracted to, and make advances on, boys? And do you think they are more sexual in their thoughts and actions and motivations than straight men are? Because that's what some of what you have said indicates, including that we should segregate them in their own tent to keep them away from young boys. Apparently most people can't control their sexual urges, but especially gay men in the Boy Scouts- or just gay men in general.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:07 PM   #58
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So, as a father of girls you´d be pefectly fine with them sleeping in the same tent as the boys?
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:07 PM   #59
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So, as a father of girls you´d be pefectly fine with them sleeping in the same tent as the boys?


as a father of girls, i'd be perfectly fine with them sleeping in the same tent as the lesbians.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:10 PM   #60
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So, as a father of girls you´d be pefectly fine with them sleeping in the same tent as the boys?
Wow.

And the point has just gone waaaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
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