christian persecution

[blueyedpoet]

In other threads I have recently noticed a "we conservative christians are being persecuted" attitude. having grown up in a conservative christian home I remember this attitude. I always remember not feeling threatened by the government where my faith was concerned.
Conservative christians have the White House, Congress, and the Supreme Court, what more could be wanted?
My personal theory is that in order to maintain a united front conservative christians need to have a it's "the world against us." As long as everyone is against your group your group will remain united.
Moderators if this is too harsh then by all means take it off. I really don't want to piss anyone off, I just think it's all very interesting and worth discussing.

 

[Kieran McConville]

I've noticed the things you describe too, but yeah, I think you probably will piss people off.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think there is a difference between "we are being persecuted" and the reality of what takes place in this forum.

There have been times in this forum where there has been a total lack of respect directed towards the Conservative Christians. I have seen them called bigots because of their beliefs. I may have the opposite posision on an issue with them but I do not believe this to be the case. I have spent time defending members of this forum when I feel this is occuring.

There are also times, when it feels almost completely impossible to have a "Free Your Mind" discussion because in my opinion, I think some people find it challenging to separate themselves from their faith. In some ways I find this to be a quality of strength, and in others I find it completely frustraiting when I am trying to have an open discussion and it spirals into the same old discussion again and again.

I do not believe anyone is trying to have a united front. I believe that some people's belief is so strong in their faith, that they out of an intense desire to share the Word, in order to save souls (which is what religion is about) cannot separate themselves from their beliefs.

This occurs in here not just with religion. I think if you step back and go through some threads about Iraq, there are times when we find people incapable of moving off of a position to the point again where the thread funnels into the same conclusions.

I am not trying to cast stones. There are issues I am unable to move from. I am willing to bet we all have them. I do not believe it has anything to do with a united front though.

 

[A_Wanderer]

As for persecution in western countries it is non-existent, it is about maintaining a victim mentality, be it the government, courts or entertainment industry working against them ~ a cause to be if you will. The same goes for any group; gays, blacks, Muslims, conservatives, neo-nazi's - they all need to have opposition and they will often invent a broad opposition to their goals to claim a lot of victim mentality - of course some groups are guility of this a lot more than others and often such claims are based on some degree of truth.

This is not to say that persecution of Christians is not an issue in the world. I think that the Chinese Governments treatment of Christians and some more recent cases of attacks against Coptic Christians show that persecution of Christians is very real and costs many lives each year.

 

[blueyedpoet]

wow, all the comments here have been really insightful...wait, that probably sounded like i'm suprised that people here can give insightful comments....that's not what i meant

 

[melon]

In other threads I have recently noticed a "we conservative christians are being persecuted" attitude. having grown up in a conservative christian home I remember this attitude. I always remember not feeling threatened by the government where my faith was concerned.
Conservative christians have the White House, Congress, and the Supreme Court, what more could be wanted?
My personal theory is that in order to maintain a united front conservative christians need to have a it's "the world against us." As long as everyone is against your group your group will remain united.

What more do they want? A theocracy.

I couldn't have said it better.

Melon

 

[BVS]

There simply is no persececution of Christianity in the Western World. Many would like to believe so, but it doesn't exist, individuals may be attacked, but Christianity as a whole is far from being persecuted. There are many in this board that will not agree with this statement for we've had this discussion before, in a slightly different format.

What I find truly disturbing is the growth of this mentality and the "forcing" of one's beliefs that's resulted from it. In this very forum is an excellent example. There are some very respectful conservative Christians that can listen and speak their beliefs and bring a lot to the table. But there has been an onslaught of those that feel like they have to hijack every thread they can, talk without listening, and bring absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Unfortunately this behavior functions well outside this forum and these groups try and "hijack" forms of education, law, and any other political platform they can find.

It gives those respectful conservative Christians a bad name and gives Christianity as a whole a bad name. In their attempt to "spread" it, they are weakening it by the day. For nothing weakens your cause or beliefs more than victimhood or force feeding.

 

[nbcrusader]

There is Christian persecution in this world; I just don't see it on this board.

Some religions embrace the "they are out to get us" attitude and are taught this as part of their apologetics.

 

[nbcrusader]

individuals may be attacked,

Isn't that what is being claimed by some?

We define racism not as an attack on the entire race, but as an attack on an individual based on their race.

Can the same principle be applied here?

 

[sulawesigirl4]

It's interesting that you started this thread, because after posting in the thread about "God and disasters" yesterday, I went home thinking about this very point. I too grew up in a conservative Christian community and remember all too well the overwhelming sense of "the world is out to get us" that permeated. I think that it allows the "Christian" community to ignore the broader aspect of human rights abuse throughout the world. By that, I mean, if we are busy worrying about being persecuted, we don't have time to be concerned about other groups, ethnicities, religions, etc. when in fact, Jesus himself identified himself as the friend of the friendless and on the side of the persecuted.

I might be wrong, but it is just an observation.

 

[BVS]

Isn't that what is being claimed by some?

We define racism not as an attack on the entire race, but as an attack on an individual based on their race.

Can the same principle be applied here?

Can Pat Robertson be "attacked" without attacking Christianity?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I won't claim "persecution", but sometimes it can be a drag to be upfront about your beliefs. It can be difficult to have a discussion when there is name-calling. It seems that the majority of threads end up centered on an issue that has nothing to do with the intended topic. Sure, I can admit that every so often I might do this without really thinking about it, or jab unnecessary comments on other beliefs in the heat of a debate. We have to accept that this may happen from time to time, but I think if we work at it, it wouldn't happen as often as it does, and instead, we can have a meaningful, constructive discussion. At times, we all have to put up with a hyperventilated forumer, but I do think that we can make an attempt to reason with them. As far as being a Christian, I would hope that none of us claim to be a good enough example of one, as we all have our moments from time to time.

 

[coemgen]

Wow, this is a great thread idea. I like your point blueyedpoet. I agree with a lot of what has been said. I hope, as a Christian, I haven't come across as one who tries to cram my beliefs down anyone's throat or whatever — I'm totally against that. Please forgive me if I ever have come across that way. Sometimes I may get a bit carried away in the debate or whatever. I personally have never felt persecuted as a Christian, here or anywhere. For the most part, those in FYM are very kind and open and I appreciate that.
I can see some of the points being made here though and I have to say I can agree. I know Christian persecution around the world is rampant. There are more Christians persecuted today than there were in Christ's time. I actually support an organization called Voice of the Martyrs, which seeks to help Christians around the world who are tortured for having a Bible or for gathering in an underground church. This doesn't happen in America though. I think there's a big difference between persecution and opposition to a certain agenda.
Christ said there would come a time where we were persecuted because of his name, but he didn't tell us to worry about it. And I would have to think he's disappointed with those who cry wolf based on a right-wing agenda. As long as there are Christians in southern Sudan getting raped or shot, then those of us in western nations have little to complain about. Another thing to remember is yes, as a Christian, I, and I'm sure countless others, would ultimately like to see everyone know Christ and accept him as their personal savior and experience the blessings and joy that come from a relationship with him and in striving to keep his commands, HOWEVER, this simply isn't going to happen and just because someone else doesn't share my beliefs and is passionate about a differing view, I don't feel persecuted. Nor do I lose respect for them as a person.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Can Pat Robertson be "attacked" without attacking Christianity?

I believe so, he can be questioned or critiqued based on what he has said and done. This could range from a healthy fashion - a general disagreement, to an outrageous fashion - a passionate hatred for his existence.

 

[nbcrusader]

Can Pat Robertson be "attacked" without attacking Christianity?

Can you fire a minority for poor performance and not be guilty of discrimination?

If you want to attack Pat Robertson because of his political statements, then fine. If you attack Pat Robertson because he is a Christian, you have a different situation.

 

[Irvine511]

Can you fire a minority for poor performance and not be guilty of discrimination?

If you want to attack Pat Robertson because of his political statements, then fine. If you attack Pat Robertson because he is a Christian, you have a different situation.

i think Robertson's an interesting example; he's conflated, confused, and inextricably entertwined his politics with being a Christian. for him, part of being a Christian, and probably the only way he feels one can be a responsible Christian, is to have a very specific set of politics that he lays out for his followers.

i think it's less attacking Robertson for being a Christian, but for how he chooses to practice his Christianity.

 

[BVS]

Can you fire a minority for poor performance and not be guilty of discrimination?

If you want to attack Pat Robertson because of his political statements, then fine. If you attack Pat Robertson because he is a Christian, you have a different situation.

Very good point. Yes you can fire them if they perform poorly, will some try and find a way to twist it around? Yes.

Just like some will twist around an attack on how Pat "uses" his religious beliefs.

 

[BVS]

but sometimes it can be a drag to be upfront about your beliefs.

That's true of all beliefs.

 

[blueyedpoet]

A_wanderer's quote, "As for persecution in western countries it is non-existent, it is about maintaining a victim mentality....The same goes for any group; gays, blacks, Muslims, conservatives, neo-nazi's - they all need to have opposition and they will often invent a broad opposition to their goals to claim a lot of victim mentality - of course some groups are guility of this a lot more than others and often such claims are based on some degree of truth."

Do we liberals do the same?
This is perhaps why self-evaluation is so needed. Group-think is all too prevalent in, well, groups that our minds can be persuaded to think differently then we would under different circumstances.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

That's true of all beliefs.

I don't doubt it, bud.

 

[Liesje]

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again here....I think the word "conservative" as it relates to Christianity is being thrown out WAY too often around here. I've read people labelling certain actions or beliefs as "conservative" and they're actually not that conservative at all. Christianity in general does not equal "conservative".

That said, I'd consider myself a relatively conservative Christian and I've never felt outright persecuted here or anywhere else in "real" life. Challenged, yes....persecuted, no. Sure, I've had people say everything I believe is stupid and shit, bla bla bla, but those people came at it in such a way that they were obviously just trying to get a rise out of me. I doubt they'd ever have the guts to "persecute" me to my face!

 

[deep]

Can you fire a minority for poor performance and not be guilty of discrimination?

sometimes the question is the answer



we can fire an employee for not doing their job properly


people get fired not melanin

 

[Do Miss America]

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it again here....I think the word "conservative" as it relates to Christianity is being thrown out WAY too often around here. I've read people labelling certain actions or beliefs as "conservative" and they're actually not that conservative at all. Christianity in general does not equal "conservative".

Interesting. I see quite the opposite in here. I see many automatically assume you don't believe if you have liberal leanings. In fact I've actually read where some have flat out told others their beliefs contradict anything Biblical.

 

[Liesje]

Interesting. I see quite the opposite in here. I see many automatically assume you don't believe if you have liberal leanings.

Yes, I can see this too. My point is that what some people are labelling "conservative" is SOOOO not conservative it's funny. Just b/c something is MORE conservative doesn't make it "conservative Christianity". The same thing goes for fundamentalism. I've read people labelling some of the things I believe as "fundamentalist" when believe me, I have as much in common with a fundamentalist Christian that I do with a fundamentalist Muslim!

 

[Klink]

"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

 

[blueyedpoet]

excellent quote

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I agree, I think it summed it up.