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Old 05-14-2008, 06:51 AM   #21
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Yeah the post was out of line, but Big Brother deserves criticism.
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Yeah the post was out of line, but Big Brother deserves criticism.
No, actually I think it's quite natural.

With a grandfather who fought in the Korea war, grow up with the economic sanction, I celebrated the 9-11 with two bottle of wine. But I was too young at that time to understand what the world really is.

It just funny to see someone could stopped at the teenage maturity all life.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:09 AM   #23
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If you mean the idea of having God punish innocent people with natural disasters for the crimes of their government then yes, it is immature and stupid.

Obsequious admiration of government and nationalism is at least as ugly.

I am not a Christian.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If you mean the idea of having God punish innocent people with natural disasters for the crimes of their government then yes, it is immature and stupid.

Obsequious admiration of government and nationalism is at least as ugly.

I am not a Christian.
The direct translation for "Nationalism" in Chinese, is a 100% positive word, it's equal to call someone a hero.

If "obsequious admiration" can make Bush give up Iraq, I'd do it 3 times a day in a routine. I don't care to be the ugly one, if millions would be saved.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:32 AM   #25
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It may well be, and that demonstrates how effectively a state can mold peoples minds. Love of nation and for the actions of government is ignorant and you will be abused by your government if you believe in it without question.

You can oppose Bush without giving deference to autocrats.

It is love of state that gives Bush support, it is nationalism that supports Americas arms industry and it is those attitudes that have sent men to their deaths since the dawn of time for good or ill.

Iraq is absolutely nothing compared to the death engineered under the Great Leap Forward. Bush is not what made the Chinese state apparatus use violence to break up student protests in 1989. America does not justify abuses in Tibet (and I agree that the Dali Llama represents a nasty feudal tradition; I don't think that justifies any and all things that China has done).



Is that unknown rebel a nationalist?
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
It may well be, and that demonstrates how effectively a state can mold peoples minds. Love of nation and for the actions of government is ignorant and you will be abused by your government if you believe that.

It is love of state that gives Bush support, it is nationalism that supports Americas arms industry and it is those attitudes that have sent men to their deaths since the dawn of time for good or ill.

Iraq is absolutely nothing compared to the death engineered under the Great Leap Forward. Bush is not what made the Chinese state apparatus use violence to break up student protests in 1989. America does not justify abuses in Tibet (and I agree that the Dali Llama represents a nasty feudal tradition).

It's a perfect picture.

Think, if the government want these people to die, why he can stop the tanks? I guess he would be already crushed into mince before someone could snap this picture.

Iraq is one country invade another country, so I don't think you can compare it with the other events you mentioned above.

BTW, I guess you didn't talk to anyone who participated in the 89 protest. Two biggest pro-China demonstration in Germany were actually leaded and organised by two people who was the students in the square on 4th June, 1989.
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Old 05-14-2008, 07:56 AM   #27
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He can stop the tanks because state security services can quietly execute somebody without as much bad press. That there is internal censorship within China that seems to have flushed the events down the memory hole is not a good thing (I really recommend that you check out George Orwell's book 1984, it is a good read).

And you are right, it has nothing to do with Iraq, it has to do with a state using force to suppress citizens.

Is that wrong, a necessarily evil or positive?

The government is not your friend, it will lie to you because it is serving other self-interested parties and factions, and that is not only a statement about China it is a statement about every government anywhere at any time.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:05 AM   #28
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I was just stated my opinion, I've been following the atrocities in Myanmar closely. They are right next door to China and yet no help. The Junta there are taking supplies for themselves and letting people go hungry. No one knows the real toll of death there, but now China is all over the media and asking for help.

All I'm saying is that it is ironic and strange and rather eerie for an earthquake to happen. Whether its Karma, God or as simple as what comes around goes around, the situation as a whole is rather ironic.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:07 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511





retribution on the part of whom?
You're insinuating that I meant someone, where as all I meant was it is rather eerie, ironic and strange all at the same time that China is behind alot of horror and now they get the biggest earthquake in 30 years.

Thats it. Don't assume. Its just a statement and nothing else.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
I was just stated my opinion, I've been following the atrocities in Myanmar closely. They are right next door to China and yet no help. The Junta there are taking supplies for themselves and letting people go hungry. No one knows the real toll of death there, but now China is all over the media and asking for help.

All I'm saying is that it is ironic and strange and rather eerie for an earthquake to happen. Whether is be Karma, God or as simple as what comes around goes around, the situation as a whole is rather ironic.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:10 AM   #31
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
Have you ever ask why the Burma government accepted aid from China and Thailand, but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?

If you didn't, the Times's article "Is it the time to invade Burma" might help.

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism? Shall we say "a liar never trust others"?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?
The first of three US flights has delivered aid.

Quote:
Originally posted by butter7

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism?
Link?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:55 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER


You're insinuating that I meant someone, where as all I meant was it is rather eerie, ironic and strange all at the same time that China is behind alot of horror and now they get the biggest earthquake in 30 years.

Thats it. Don't assume. Its just a statement and nothing else.



it just seems disgusting to me to think that some "force" is moving plates in the earth in order to kill over 15,000 people because they have a crappy government. your suggestion connects dots between events -- akin to people suggesting that Hurricane Katrina hits New Orleans, and we all know that the most "sinful" town in the south is NoLA -- is genuinely offensive.

it seems to me that all the tornadoes that hit the US are concentrated around the Bible Belt. perhaps Allah is punishing the infidels?
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


Welcome back from Mars.


i see hubris and arrogance are not just American values.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:57 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


Have you ever ask why the Burma government accepted aid from China and Thailand, but rejected the help from America, even UN was blocked out?

If you didn't, the Times's article "Is it the time to invade Burma" might help.

BTW, what your people called the Chinese investment in Africa again? New colonialism? Shall we say "a liar never trust others"?


are you honestly defending the rights of the Junta to deny aid to their citizens, causing tens of thousands more to die, because they are worried that foreign aid is a threat to their sovereignty?
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:16 AM   #37
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Re: Re: Re: Re: China Quake: 10,000 or More Dead

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


If the Sun's aging process holds true, Earth will be uninhabitable to all life as we know it in 900 million to 1 billion years. A billion years after that, all surface water will have boiled away and evaporated. By the time the Sun becomes a red giant 3 billion years after that, Earth will either become a lifeless ball of molten rock, be swallowed by the Sun completely, or, as a compromise, it will be ripped apart by tidal forces into an asteroid belt. Of course, there is also a 1 in 100,000 chance that a passing star will disturb our orbit around the Sun before that ever happens and eject us into the oblivion of space. Perhaps a good moment for that will be when the Andromeda Galaxy merges with the Milky Way Galaxy in 3 billion years?


You just fucking blew my mind.

I was planning on staying alive for the next 5 billion years.

My plans have now changed.
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Old 05-14-2008, 02:11 PM   #38
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There have been pro-China demonstrations in Germany?
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:25 PM   #39
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This is about countless numbers of people buried or missing. The discussion about "values" can probably wait.
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:04 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent Vega
There have been pro-China demonstrations in Germany?
Oh, sorry, it seems they didn't wait for you to approve.
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