China : Communist ?

Gem · 02-16-2002, 10:34 PM

Is China a Communist country ? Yes ? Let me laugh...

China is a State-Capitalist country. It has nothing to do with Communism.

Communism ? Communism was an idea of Karl Marx during the I9th Century. "Religion is the opium of the people". This was an all-I9th Century matter, of a European living in Germany in a specific condition. Now, the appropriate slogan should be "New Economical Order : Opium of the People". Even Fidel Castro in Cuba understood that religion is nothing to be afraid of, himself being converted to christianism during the '90s and opened his country to other religions.

China is a State-Capitalism country. Communism implies reforms in agriculture, education available freely for everyone, a free health-care system and everyone being equal. China ? Education is propaganda, the health-care system.. never heard of it being a state-of-the-art one, agriculture ? Communism implies the end of human exploitation by human. China ??? China is one of the most ruthless system.

And my position in all this ? I'm a social-democrat or a socialist (socialism implies democracy, but nowadays you have to specify it). My position about China ? There is no leftie one, even the Communists (who are the most radical in the left part, before the anarchos of course) would say to you that China has nothing to do with Communism. Mao ? Perfect and admirable in theory. In practice ? An opportunist.

Che Guevara, perhaps one of the most well-known person (outside the USA maybe), a genuine Communist who understood that Marx was reffering to the XIXth Century, lost his illusion with China.

In my opinion, anyone dealing with China is perfect for life-prison. I don't suggest a blocus, like the onces imposed on Cuba or Irak, because a blocus is a coward act and a crime against humanity, but the Chinese people is able to change itself. Mr. Bush is going to China next week. Is the USA model a model for all the world ? Surely not. Nor is the "Communism" of China.

------------------
Le peuple uni, jamais ne sera vaincu
The people united, will never be defeated
El pueblo unido, nunca se derrote

IvanClaytonJnr · 02-17-2002, 01:08 AM

Communism itself ( Karl Marx was a kind big daddy who just loved to speak about people happiness in german pub with Engels ) is a good thing , people are bastards though

DoctorGonzo · 02-17-2002, 03:05 AM

If the U.S called itself Communist tomrrow but changed nothing policy-wise it would be just as close to real Communism as China, Cuba and North Korea are, and the Soviet Union was.

Angela Harlem · 02-17-2002, 03:54 AM

Gonz, how is America close to real communism?
Perhaps there's a whole heap of stuff about America I dont know about. In fact, there must be if you can back this one up.

*realises this shouldnt be asked as its only going to cause more bitching - Sigh*

FizzingWhizzbees · 02-17-2002, 04:02 AM

Angela Harlem,
I think maybe the comment about how close America is to Communism wasn't saying America *is* similar to a true Communist state, but rather that it's as far away from Communism as any of the states which are often labelled as Communist.

I think Gem had a good point to begin with - not only is China far from being a Communist state, but even the USSR, which the west always labelled as Communist throughout the twentieth century, had almost no resemblence to Communism as described by Marx and Engels. If you look at the history of the USSR right from the Russian Revolution, you can see how far it's development differed from that of a Communist state, as described in Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto. I think that the description of the USSR as a Communist state also did a lot to reinforce the idea that Communism is 'evil' or is the same as 'dictatorship'.

Interesting thread

DoctorGonzo · 02-17-2002, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Angela Harlem,
I think maybe the comment about how close America is to Communism wasn't saying America *is* similar to a true Communist state, but rather that it's as far away from Communism as any of the states which are often labelled as Communist.

That is exactly what I was trying to say. I aplogize that it didn't come out clearer.

Angela Harlem · 02-17-2002, 04:21 AM

Good points Whizzee, thnx

Angela Harlem · 02-17-2002, 04:23 AM

Ach, your reply wasn't there a second ago Gonz! Thnx for clarifying

02-16-2002, 10:34 PM	#1
Gem Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 9 Local Time: 01:05 PM	China : Communist ? Is China a Communist country ? Yes ? Let me laugh... China is a State-Capitalist country. It has nothing to do with Communism. Communism ? Communism was an idea of Karl Marx during the I9th Century. "Religion is the opium of the people". This was an all-I9th Century matter, of a European living in Germany in a specific condition. Now, the appropriate slogan should be "New Economical Order : Opium of the People". Even Fidel Castro in Cuba understood that religion is nothing to be afraid of, himself being converted to christianism during the '90s and opened his country to other religions. China is a State-Capitalism country. Communism implies reforms in agriculture, education available freely for everyone, a free health-care system and everyone being equal. China ? Education is propaganda, the health-care system.. never heard of it being a state-of-the-art one, agriculture ? Communism implies the end of human exploitation by human. China ??? China is one of the most ruthless system. And my position in all this ? I'm a social-democrat or a socialist (socialism implies democracy, but nowadays you have to specify it). My position about China ? There is no leftie one, even the Communists (who are the most radical in the left part, before the anarchos of course) would say to you that China has nothing to do with Communism. Mao ? Perfect and admirable in theory. In practice ? An opportunist. Che Guevara, perhaps one of the most well-known person (outside the USA maybe), a genuine Communist who understood that Marx was reffering to the XIXth Century, lost his illusion with China. In my opinion, anyone dealing with China is perfect for life-prison. I don't suggest a blocus, like the onces imposed on Cuba or Irak, because a blocus is a coward act and a crime against humanity, but the Chinese people is able to change itself. Mr. Bush is going to China next week. Is the USA model a model for all the world ? Surely not. Nor is the "Communism" of China. ------------------ Le peuple uni, jamais ne sera vaincu The people united, will never be defeated El pueblo unido, nunca se derrote __________________

02-17-2002, 01:08 AM	#2
IvanClaytonJnr Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: ZOO-STATES Posts: 629 Local Time: 01:05 PM	Communism itself ( Karl Marx was a kind big daddy who just loved to speak about people happiness in german pub with Engels ) is a good thing , people are bastards though __________________

02-17-2002, 04:23 AM	#8
Angela Harlem Jesus Online Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: a glass castle Posts: 30,163 Local Time: 12:05 AM	Ach, your reply wasn't there a second ago Gonz! Thnx for clarifying __________________

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02-17-2002, 03:05 AM	#3
DoctorGonzo War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 560 Local Time: 08:05 AM	If the U.S called itself Communist tomrrow but changed nothing policy-wise it would be just as close to real Communism as China, Cuba and North Korea are, and the Soviet Union was.

02-17-2002, 03:54 AM	#4
Angela Harlem Jesus Online Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: a glass castle Posts: 30,163 Local Time: 12:05 AM	Gonz, how is America close to real communism? Perhaps there's a whole heap of stuff about America I dont know about. In fact, there must be if you can back this one up. realises this shouldnt be asked as its only going to cause more bitching - Sigh

02-17-2002, 04:02 AM	#5
FizzingWhizzbees ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the choirgirl hotel Posts: 12,614 Local Time: 01:05 PM	Angela Harlem, I think maybe the comment about how close America is to Communism wasn't saying America is similar to a true Communist state, but rather that it's as far away from Communism as any of the states which are often labelled as Communist. I think Gem had a good point to begin with - not only is China far from being a Communist state, but even the USSR, which the west always labelled as Communist throughout the twentieth century, had almost no resemblence to Communism as described by Marx and Engels. If you look at the history of the USSR right from the Russian Revolution, you can see how far it's development differed from that of a Communist state, as described in Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto. I think that the description of the USSR as a Communist state also did a lot to reinforce the idea that Communism is 'evil' or is the same as 'dictatorship'. Interesting thread

02-17-2002, 04:21 AM	#7
Angela Harlem Jesus Online Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: a glass castle Posts: 30,163 Local Time: 12:05 AM	Good points Whizzee, thnx