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Old 10-20-2002, 04:21 PM   #21
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hi garibaldo,

that was exactly my point though, that obviously for you staying a virgin is the right thing to do because of your religious convictions. i'm sure it's not easy and that's why you have every right to be proud of making the right decision for you and sticking to it!

however, don't you also accept that someone might be proud of their decision only to lose their virginity when they're with a partner they love, even if for them it doesn't mean waiting until marraige? your personal beliefs may be that it's wrong to have sex outside of marraige, but others have different beliefs and i don't think you (or anyone else, of course, i'm not singling you out!) should make others feel bad because their moral beliefs differ from yours and they live their life according to their own moral beliefs, not yours!

molly

p.s. if the "this is me giving you shit" comment was directed at me then i'm not sure what i've said to offend you, but i apologise if you are offended and i hope we can have a friendly conversation from now on.
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Old 10-20-2002, 04:49 PM   #22
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I was kidding about the giving you shit part. My point was that I don't think morality is just relative, so sex before marriage seems immoral to me. Now, that doesn't necessarily say that I look at non-virgins as bad people. I don't really care what you're doing except in the sense that it creates a negative cultural stereotype of virgins as uptight or losers, which adversely affects me. The whole freelove movement of the 60's is a bane to my existence.

I don't aim to make non-virgins feel bad. I wouldn't have this conversation with a non-virgin unless it was brought up by someone else first (like it was here). So, I don't step out my door looking for every non-virgin so that I can tell them how bad they are.
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Old 10-20-2002, 05:06 PM   #23
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im ok w -
good girls
and
bad girls..

db9
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Old 10-20-2002, 06:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo



My goodness, you do go on, don't you?
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:14 PM   #25
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Hey! Leave band camp outta this!
*loves band camp*
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
The high and mighty also fall, and when they do, it's a long way down.
yep. the youth leader at my old church acted like she was better than everyone (well, in retrospect, everyone there did), and then one time we separated into girl and boy groups and for some reason, we went into the chick's bedroom who was hosting the meeting.

we got on the subject of virginity, and our youth leader, who's not married, never has been married, and has never even come close, admitted she's not a virgin. that was one of the nails in the coffin for that church. i don't have a problem with people having sex before marriage, but to act all high and mighty, and constantly point out how other people can "do better" in their life by tattooing WWJD on their forehead and then admit that, is just fucking hypocritical.

that is all.
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
Let's not accuse people of stereotyping.
yes, let's not stereotype.

that means you too, you know.
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Old 10-20-2002, 08:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

yes, let's not stereotype.

that means you too, you know.
I told her not to accuse people of stereotyping. I didn't tell her not to stereotype. DUH! Which means I have no obligation to do the same.

Seriously, I think the point of your stupid church story was to point out just how hypocritical churchgoers can be. Wow! A liberal attacking hypocritical Christians, let me go call Guiness.
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Old 10-20-2002, 10:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



No one can make you feel this way, but yourself.

Guilt, shame, embarrassment all require your cooperation.
It is what’s in your heart that matters.
It is amazing....

The most intelligent part of this thread occured on the second post.

People cannot make you feel badly unless you allow it to happen.
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Old 10-21-2002, 03:41 AM   #30
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This is interesting. I think a large part of this is actually about stereotyping. Its a real shame it can be so easy for some to do as well. It can be easy to assume a girl or young guy (or someone not even young) might be a bit uptight or see themselves as morally superior, yet we will very rarely know the real reason why someone abstains - unless they state it. Chances are, it is because of a deep religious conviction, or a genuine fear of making that step that holds someone back, or perhaps even taking the romantic aspect of knowing it is best for you to wait until you meet that very special person. There are probably hundreds of reasons why people wait. We can only ever know our own reasons. That said, the same can be for those who may not see sex as a, I guess, significant event, can be deemed as somehow immoral. I dont personally see a huge problem with either choice that is made, to wait, or not to wait. It can become a problem when an ignorant outsider could challenge your position as they may have made some assumptions and pegged you based on an incorrect assessment of your moral values. Either way that goes, it is frustrating. we should only ever do what we feel comfortable doing. We cannot think we are making a mistake with our choices because it conflicts with someone else's.
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:23 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
We cannot think we are making a mistake with our choices because it conflicts with someone else's.
Very well said.
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Old 10-21-2002, 12:18 PM   #32
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Re: Chastity or lack thereof

Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
The problem I had was this: the idea that virginity is somehow "preferable" to the lack of it. I mean, I guess it is, in some ways. But I couldn't contribute to this conversation at all, and I felt rather, well...cheap, despite the fact that my days of one-night stands were pretty limited and that they're long over. I think I don't like, as someone whose virginity is very much a thing of the past, being made to feel "dirty" or "impure" or "not-special" (if that makes any sense). It's wonderful that these women have made promises to themselves, and that they're proud to have upheld them. But should that pride come at the expense of women who haven't made the same decision?

I don't know about any of this. What do you all think about the state of being a never-married non-virgin in these virgin-obsessed times?
It is unfortunate that those who have abstained overlook God's grace for those now seek abstinence. Woe to those who say, “look what I have accomplished” instead of “look what God has done in my life”, especially in such a difficult area as sexual purity.

May God surround you with His peace and joy today.
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Old 10-22-2002, 12:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
Seriously, I think the point of your stupid church story was to point out just how hypocritical churchgoers can be.
OH YEAH YOU KNOW ME!!! in fact i see exactly where i said "every christian, including me!! is a hypocrite." grow up already.
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:11 AM   #34
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I guess making that token comment really doesn't make it an attack on Christians....

Get a freaking clue. Liberals have a long history of villifying religious people and it doesn't make you immune to criticism by attending church (what? once a year perhaps).
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:39 AM   #35
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If this doesn't return to a civil conversation, it will close. You guys make the decision ok?
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Old 10-22-2002, 01:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
Get a freaking clue. Liberals have a long history of villifying religious people and it doesn't make you immune to criticism by attending church (what? once a year perhaps).
shut up already. you don't even know me.
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:10 PM   #37
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Again, back to the topic or the thread is closed.
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Old 10-23-2002, 03:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

yep. the youth leader at my old church acted like she was better than everyone (well, in retrospect, everyone there did), and then one time we separated into girl and boy groups and for some reason, we went into the chick's bedroom who was hosting the meeting.

we got on the subject of virginity, and our youth leader, who's not married, never has been married, and has never even come close, admitted she's not a virgin. that was one of the nails in the coffin for that church. i don't have a problem with people having sex before marriage, but to act all high and mighty, and constantly point out how other people can "do better" in their life by tattooing WWJD on their forehead and then admit that, is just fucking hypocritical.

that is all.
Khanada, would you prefer that she had lied to you?

I was just thinking....
A person who says you should do one thing, and then does the opposite is someone acting hypocritically. A person who does one thing and then says you should do the opposite is someone who's learned from their mistakes.

Anyway, aren't we all hypocritical at times? I am.

-Spiral
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Old 10-23-2002, 07:36 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase



A person who does one thing and then says you should do the opposite is someone who's learned from their mistakes.

Depends on how it's said. If it's preachy and self-righteous, it's not going to help, just piss off. If the insight is given with understanding and compassion, and not in a way that makes the other person feel dirty and bad, then it can be helpful.
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Old 10-24-2002, 12:05 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
Depends on how it's said. If it's preachy and self-righteous, it's not going to help, just piss off. If the insight is given with understanding and compassion, and not in a way that makes the other person feel dirty and bad, then it can be helpful.
There is a lot of truth to this statement. The Truth must be given, but must be given with love.

A lot also depends on how it is received. Some will immediately dismiss any moral standard as judgmental or expect the speaker of the moral standard to be perfect in all regards (or else - the hypocrisy label). Our natural tendency is to love the darkness instead of the light.
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