Charity....From Tax $$$$ or Free Will???? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-16-2003, 08:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I think Jesus said it best-

Jesus taught that charity and compassion should not be forced, it should be voluntary.
He also said that our charity and compassion should not be staged and acts of kindness should be real as he recognizes our true intentions..

I agree and this was the point I was trying to make earlier. It shouldn't be forced. This is a representative government we vote for the canidate that will take care of the issues we stand for. Not everything we spend our tax dollars on will be something you completely agree with.
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Old 12-16-2003, 09:13 PM   #42
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ANTI-War people must have supported Saddam and the mass graves they are uncovering....sitting by allowing the sand pits to be filled.
that .....what is that... I didnt say maybe it might have been fear that let people stand by and do nothing or other reasons .. just that they stood by it begs the question why???
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Old 12-16-2003, 11:30 PM   #43
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Sincere questions.....not sarcasm.

How am I responsible for colonialism? how are my children responsible for colonialism? Overpopulation is our fault how?
Was better answered by somebody in this thread so I won't attempt it.

But how about noblesse oblige? You may not have directly owned a slave, but you are prospering largely because of them. Had you been born to a life of misery in the third world, I would want the best for you. Our governments are in positions of power and luxury because of our collective history, regardless of your children. Your child is not responsible for colonialism, but your child was blessed to be born in one of the most prosperous, free nations in the world, and I believe your child has a responsibility to the rest of the world. I believe I do. Hence, noblesse oblige. And if the government sends out money on your behalf or that of your daughter, I believe that is their duty as well. JMO.

Frankly, these taxes are like a fart in the wind for us, it's not a big deal and I can assure you that you would rather pay them than be living in a refugee camp in the Congo. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so at the end of the day, really, is it a sticking point? I don't really think it is for most people.

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I am not certain I meant to mix in medical issues with this topic...I am not sure how it would fit.
Of course it fits, because for example, Bono is arguing for funding for medicine for AIDS. Other forms of funding are essential for cancer, diabetes, CF, Alzheimer's, MS, etc. It is not enough for you to donate to the Cancer Society - our governments need to fund this research, as charity won't support it. AIDS was once shunned by the Reagan administration - turned out to be a huge, colossal mistake, did it not? I think that's why we need to ensure funding for causes that sometimes may not be the most pleasant for large segments of the population, because in the longterm, it pays off.


*Edited because as much as I dislike Reagan, I'd like to afford him the respect of having his name spelled correctly.
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Old 12-17-2003, 12:17 AM   #44
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All donations over $2.00 are tax deductable

Pay, then pay again.

I say mostly free will. Unfortunately a lot of charity relies on government assistance though as this free society of ours is not as generous as we'd like to think we are.
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:32 AM   #45
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
The people who watched it happen weren't necessarily Nazis
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



Cute distinction
You think that everyone in Germany who saw their Jewish neighbours disappearing and didn't do anything about it was a Nazi? You think people in countries across Europe (and the rest of the world for that matter) who were fully aware of Hitler's atrocities long before 1939 were Nazis?

People were aware of what the Nazis were doing and they didn't act. Maybe it was because they were afraid of the consequences to them had they spoken up, maybe it's because they believed they couldn't do anything about it, maybe it's for one of a whole host of other reasons. It wasn't because they were Nazis.
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Old 12-17-2003, 06:37 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
All donations over $2.00 are tax deductable

Pay, then pay again.

I say mostly free will. Unfortunately a lot of charity relies on government assistance though as this free society of ours is not as generous as we'd like to think we are.
Excellent.....


Ani...good points.....You may have not read what I typed that is fine.

As I said before...what started this thread is a reaction to the fact that people are in this forum always upset that the US does not give enough. It bothers me that we do give, a lot in tax $$$ and a lot in other ways through other organizations and that never seems to come into account and it never seems to be enough.

It also bothers me, that maybe because I am more conservative than others, it is alright to take my questions and paint them and taint them as being something they were not intended to be. I too have reasons to RESENT the comparison Concentration camps and Germany. In more ways than I care to discuss in this forum it has impacted my family and anyone who has seen me complain that Iraq get 86 billion and Africa 2 billion or 3 billion, should have been in here at least saying it was not fair to characterize me or my questions in that manner.

But that is not what FYM is about.

Anitram, again, your post is eloquent, I more than understand the situation.......Thank you for always being respectful, and I wish I could figure out how to make medical things work here in the US.

And Katey and Fizz.....

If you missed the UN Speech Yesterday where the Iraqi Ambassador spoke about how wrong it was for the International Community to sit back while Saddam commited the atrocities on his people, it reminded me very much of the point directed towards me, and the questions I was asking in this thread.

I again, was big enough to apologize yesterday, if I offended anyone in this forum, however, it is disappointing, that people who have known me in this forum would find it an acceptable comparison. I have reread my posts throughout, and NEVER did I say, do not give money. That would indicate I did not give a SHITE.

I am seriously done with this thread. It was a serious question, and it was never, ever intended to be, don't give out money and stand by and watch other people suffer.
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:32 AM   #47
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Ah crap. I confess I did not read this thread really before replying. I promise not to skim the first few replies and ignore the rest. Dread were you talking to me with the "Ani..." part? I really shouldn't read FYM when I have a headache lol.

Blacksword what you wrote about the trains is a pretty good example of why we don't like references to NAZI Germany. Such a reference is always going to end up causing more trouble than the original point attempted to make. If the thread isn't about Germany, please dont use the terms or reference them in any way. Fizzingwhizzbee's gave clarity to the point and was then told it was a 'cute' comparison. I thought what she said made sense in defining what the Auschwitz comment really meant. All this said though, its better to just not make them. I hope we can all drop this aspect of the discussion.
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:36 AM   #48
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No I liked your mostly Free Will point.
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:52 AM   #49
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Well, of course you did! I am right as usual
I just wrote out a long rambling reply but wont post it. It didnt make sense anyway and oversimplified the whole thing.

Good discussion though.
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:00 AM   #50
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the amount of trust I put in the human race to be able to look beyond ones personal needs forces me to say "tax $$$"
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:59 AM   #51
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i do think if youre looking for a 'tax deduction' when donating money is it really thru charity?
if youre looking to donate a dollar so u can reclaim it thru another way is that really charity?
W/motives like that it sounds like a bookeeper's 'wet dream.

I think true charity consists of-
1-Doing a kind act not expecting any compensation.
2-Doing a kind act out of the public eye where you will not recieve any accolades from your fellow man trying to be 'the cat's meow'..


This is why Christ said there is no greater gift than one voluntarily lays down his life for another.

That is true charity -not forced small incremental tax hikes that go to some polictian's pockect where a portion of the proceeds are later thrown at some worthy cause.

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Old 12-17-2003, 09:58 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
You think that everyone in Germany who saw their Jewish neighbours disappearing and didn't do anything about it was a Nazi?
Not at all. But we were not discussing the history of the holocaust. 60 years later, when a reference is made to sending Jews off to the death camps, the snapshot implication is that of "nazi".
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Old 12-17-2003, 12:22 PM   #53
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Dreadsox,

I understand the intent of your thread, and I'm sorry it took a turn to something you didn't envision for it. Forget about implications, you're one of the good guys not just aroung here but in general. Have a wonderful Christmas (and a break from me for at least a week because I'm off to NYC ).

m.
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Old 12-17-2003, 04:30 PM   #54
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And Katey and Fizz..... If you missed the UN Speech Yesterday where the Iraqi Ambassador spoke about how wrong it was for the International Community to sit back while Saddam commited the atrocities on his people, it reminded me very much of the point directed towards me, and the questions I was asking in this thread
Nope I didnt miss a thing actually,
Okay Dreadsox I never insinuated ..
Although I was only tyring to clarify the Train bit, I never think it was directed at you ever. Anyway in my fault then I apologize.. I am little Irish... quick to anger(ha!) I would never make that direct comparison to anyone..People will read into these things what they want to
I always appreciate your point of view ...Cheers
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