Celebrities & Politics: Round 2

[Irvine511]

I think that enough is said when someone wants Iraq to win the war. Enough is said when one stoops low enough to compare the president to Hitler. I think enough is said when someone says they want to leave the country over an election. Enough is said when someone believes in sympathizing with terrorists, and that we can treat terrorists as our relatives, sit them down, and get them the help they need rather than bring them to justice.

and who said that? you sound like an FCC sensor.

i'd argue that we're living in an age of "patriotic correctness" -- where if you don't qualify every statement with, "I love this country, but ..." then you're some sort of terrorist who belongs in one of those Gonzales gulags where you get tortured to death.

it's a very black-and-white world you're painting, and one thing that will help us to beat the enemy is to understand where they are coming from and why they think what they do. this is not sympathy, this is simply smart. do you not try to understand the disease you are trying to cure?

 

[BVS]

I think that enough is said when someone wants Iraq to win the war. Enough is said when one stoops low enough to compare the president to Hitler. I think enough is said when someone says they want to leave the country over an election. Enough is said when someone believes in sympathizing with terrorists, and that we can treat terrorists as our relatives, sit them down, and get them the help they need rather than bring them to justice.

That's ridiculous.

You've compared certain politicians to Hitler .

You lack context, assume far too much, and don't understand the rest.

Why is it "enough said" when one actually believes in trying to start a line of communication with someone before just killing them. I don't know about you but that sounds like a very compassionate thing, something that Jesus may have actually tried. But we all know he's a brainless hippie right.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

and who said that? you sound like an FCC sensor.

Look at the celebrity quotes I listed. My last post was directly based on them. FCC censor? Nah. I'm not saying they can't say anything of a kind, as some on this forum have made it out to be without even thinking about it. I'm saying that much of it is rubbish, and again, look at the celebrity quotes if I haven't made my point already.

i'd argue that we're living in an age of "patriotic correctness" -- where if you don't qualify every statement with, "I love this country, but ..." then you're some sort of terrorist who belongs in one of those Gonzales gulags where you get tortured to death.

I understand your first sentence, and I actually agree. However the Gonzales/terrorist reference was a little extreme. You'll get called out on it, but not tortured for it.

it's a very black-and-white world you're painting, and one thing that will help us to beat the enemy is to understand where they are coming from and why they think what they do. this is not sympathy, this is simply smart. do you not try to understand the disease you are trying to cure?

Obviously we should look at where the enemy is coming from. But to think that we could ever reason the hatred out of them as if they were a relative is absurd, at least in my thoughts.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

That's ridiculous.

You've compared certain politicians to Hitler .

Really? Like who? Stalin?

You lack context, assume far too much, and don't understand the rest.

Why is it "enough said" when one actually believes in trying to start a line of communication with someone before just killing them. I don't know about you but that sounds like a very compassionate thing, something that Jesus may have actually tried. But we all know he's a brainless hippie right.

Right, compasion is always the best weapon, and we can reason with every one of the world's terrorists.

 

[BVS]

Really? Like who? Stalin?

Go take a look at one of your first posts about Dean.

Right, compasion is always the best weapon, and we can reason with every one of the world's terrorists.

I'm not saying we can but the idea to try first is not one I'd dismiss, in fact I would say it's one that we are called upon. But your dismissive attitude to those you don't agree with politically is fairly small minded. Honestly I haven't seen any ground to your idea that celebrities are any less thoughtful or intelligent with their causes or beliefs, I've just seen you dismissing them because you don't agree.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Go take a look at one of your first posts about Dean.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Would you mind quoting it for me?

I'm not saying we can but the idea to try first is not one I'd dismiss, in fact I would say it's one that we are called upon. But your dismissive attitude to those you don't agree with politically is fairly small minded. Honestly I haven't seen any ground to your idea that celebrities are any less thoughtful or intelligent with their causes or beliefs, I've just seen you dismissing them because you don't agree.

I dismiss outrageous Bush-bashing and outrageous Clinton-bashing, whether or not they come from celebrities. Avoiding extremes, as well as exposing them is something you are likely to see from me. If blocking out extremes makes me "small-minded", good for me. I don't care what you think of it if that's the case.

 

[Irvine511]

sorry, you seem to want to condemn more than listen, a sort of celebirty witch hunt, where if it was said by a celebrity then it is more suspect than the average person, and more stupid than the average person ... and you're also mistaken in thinking that such opinions you've taken out of context are held by these individuals alone. many, many americans would agree with most of those comments, i probably agree with 70% of them, and celebrities are welcome to have opinions just like the rest of us. and you're still equating a conversation with someone you disagree with to a few quotes you're pulling out and using as evidence of some sort of conspiracy. what i think you should do is engage Richard Gere in a conversation, and then you can feel free to condemn or condone whatever he says. until then, i'm really not sure what your point is other than to play into fantasies of Hollywood as some sort of anti-American bastion where people cheered 9-11 or Madrid or Bail. as much as many would like that to be the case, it simply isn't.

 

[BVS]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Would you mind quoting it for me?

I'd rather not it's pretty offensive, just look back to your posts on 12-13-2003.

I dismiss outrageous Bush-bashing and outrageous Clinton-bashing, whether or not they come from celebrities. Avoiding extremes, as well as exposing them is something you are likely to see from me. If blocking out extremes makes me "small-minded", good for me. I don't care what you think of it if that's the case.

That's fine, but all those quotes weren't extreme bashing.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Not all of them were, but some could easily be considered over the top. And 2003? Way back when nearly two years ago. No wonder I seemed to forget.

And in response to Irvine - true, I may not think highly of celebrity opinions very often, nor do I agree with many of them. If it was out of context, I'd like to know how, and what the original context was.

 

[BVS]

And 2003? Way back when nearly two years ago. No wonder I seemed to forget.

But you're not dismissing it because it was in 2003 are you?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

But you're not dismissing it because it was in 2003 are you?

I'm not denying it, but I'm more interested in having a discussion concerning celebrity politics than holding grudges. If my old, newbie comment offended you, I apologize. If you don't mind mind, I would like to stick with the topic.

 

[BVS]

I'm not denying it, but I'm more interested in having a discussion concerning celebrity politics than holding grudges. If my old, newbie comment offended you, I apologize. If you don't mind mind, I would like to stick with the topic.

Not a grudge I just have a wierd memory.

But this has everything to do with the topic. You are bashing and dismissing celebrities for the same exact speech you commit. Sounds a little hypocritical.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Not a grudge I just have a wierd memory.

But this has everything to do with the topic. You are bashing and dismissing celebrities for the same exact speech you commit. Sounds a little hypocritical.

You seem to think that I dismiss ALL celebrities before they talk, which is simply untrue. There is no sense in being hung up over a comment I made when I was new here, which was ages ago. There are plenty of threads about politicians and non-celebs popping off with a mouth, go look for it yourself.

Can we please get back on topic.

If celebrities influence your opinions or thoughts, how often does this occur?

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

If celebrities influence your opinions or thoughts, how often does this occur?Since I am often in disagreement with them, I would say they influence my thoughts and opinions on Hollywood politics. However, there may be some diamonds in the rough, but in my view, they are hard to find. From time to time, they may raise awareness on issues, which I suppose is usually a good thing.

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?I suppose a positive is that they are free to express themselves so that we can know them in ways that aren't exposed in their movies. Also, they are expressing their freedom of speech, which is exactly what appraisers and critics may do in response. Another positive is when they are involved in a respectable cause, such as the One Campaign, etc. I do respect those who want to give something back to the world.

 

[BVS]

You seem to think that I dismiss ALL celebrities before they talk, which is simply untrue.

Ok not all the time just "most of the time it's absolute rubbish".

There is no sense in being hung up over a comment I made when I was new here, which was ages ago. There are plenty of threads about politicians and non-celebs popping off with a mouth, go look for it yourself.

But this is the point I'm trying to make. You're trying to make a point by exhibiting quotes out of context, I mean you had a long list of quotes so obviously you spent a lot of time and energy with this. You're dismissing celebrities due to these out of context quotes, yet you won't acknowledge your own faults in political speech. None of us are without fault when it comes to this, but for some reason you want to hang up celebrities.

Your using being new or that it was a long time ago as reasons to not take your quote too seriously, but you don't know the circumstances that these quotes were made. Maybe they were having a bad day and would have otherwise worded it very differently. You don't know. But why reduce them to rubbish and not yourself.

What do you find positive about political celebrities, other than your political agreements with them?

Any celebrity who truly gets involved to change this world is a good thing. I don't care if I don't agree with their politics. If Ted Nugent wants to raise awareness about the NRA, that's fine. I don't agree with it, but the fact that a celebrity wants to spend his time bringing awareness to something that he really believes in is a lot better than sitting at home swimming in his own ego. I respect that.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

You're dismissing celebrities due to these out of context quotes, yet you won't acknowledge your own faults in political speech.

Umm... I already apologized for the comment I made when I was a newbie. How else may I kiss your ass?

None of us are without fault when it comes to this, but for some reason you want to hang up celebrities.

For "some reason" I shed light on why I might get turned off by Hollywood politics by the use of quotes, and there are many. Nobody has attempted to show which "context" they were in, if you could ever possibly rationalize them in the first place.

Your using being new or that it was a long time ago as reasons to not take your quote too seriously, but you don't know the circumstances that these quotes were made. Maybe they were having a bad day and would have otherwise worded it very differently. You don't know. But why reduce them to rubbish and not yourself.

Believe it or not, there are times when I wish I corrected myself or had said/thought differently. I do in fact self-critique, but it goes unannounced. If you'd rather I start an FYM forum devoted to that in itself, go ahead and say so.

Anyways, this is the last time I'm going to say this.

THIS FORUM IS NOT ABOUT ME/OTHER FYMERS. IT IS ABOUT CELEBRITY POLITICS.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Can anyone here really say they were influenced by anything a celebrity has said? We're a pretty good cross section. I've certainly been informed about things I didn't know about by some celebrities, but I doubt it changed my opinion one iota. I might see the inherent wisdom in a celebrity who agrees with my position. But then I see the inherent wisdom of anyone who agrees with my postion.

They do no harm; sometimes they do some good.

on this particular part. Very well said-that sums up what I was trying to say earlier quite well .

Angela

 

[BVS]

Umm... I already apologized for the comment I made when I was a newbie. How else may I kiss your ass?

I'm not asking for an apology or having my ass kissed. I'm just wondering why you hold a different standard for your speech and others? You're calling out people for doing something that you yourself do. I don't see why you can't understand this.

For "some reason" I shed light on why I might get turned off by Hollywood politics by the use of quotes, and there are many. Nobody has attempted to show which "context" they were in, if you could ever possibly rationalize them in the first place.

I don't feel the need to rationalize them. If we debated each and every quote we'd be here for a month. You brought the quotes up therefore the burden of context lies on you. Honestly I can care less about the quotes.

I honestly don't think you like "Hollywood politics" because you don't agree with them not because they are celebrities.

Believe it or not, there are times when I wish I corrected myself or had said/thought differently. I do in fact self-critique, but it goes unannounced. If you'd rather I start an FYM forum devoted to that in itself, go ahead and say so.

Ummm NO. We all have those times even celebrities.

THIS FORUM IS NOT ABOUT ME/OTHER FYMERS. IT IS ABOUT CELEBRITY POLITICS.

Ok, then I guess you really haven't done a good job explaining why celebrities talking about politics is any different than us talking about politics.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I'm just wondering why you hold a different standard for your speech and others? You're calling out people for doing something that you yourself do. I don't see why you can't understand this.

Comments related to political subjects I say and post go under questioning, as they should. Comments others make on here also go under questioning, as they should. Celebrity comments are no different. Every position deserves to be questioned, and there should be no shame in testing its reason.

I honestly don't think you like "Hollywood politics" because you don't agree with them not because they are celebrities.

My disagreement undoubtedly plays a role in it. However, when I compare their logic to the logic of a well-researched person who disagrees with me, I see a notorious difference. As I said earlier though, there's a few diamonds in the rough, and some are well-informed on certain issues. I just don't put them onto a pedestal just because they tell the public who to vote for, whether or not I agree with it.