Canada will sign Kyoto

[Popmartijn]

As for Colorado and the chopping down of trees...Well, mass deforrestation is bad. But bushfires are horrendous. If he has the aim of decreasing the numbers of fires, that can only be good, in intention. It is something that has to be done in areas that are densley populated with trees. Chopping them down like I said is not what I would call the best option by far, infact, I dont agree with it. It would surely be a lot better to get a good back burn system going, build fire trails around the perimetres, spend the dollars maintaining them, then everyone wins. You keep your bushland, and keep the numbers of fires to a minimum.

The problem with deforrestation is that the large and old trees, those that lumbers want to chop down for their wood, are not the most dangerous aspect regarding forrest fires. It is the small bushes (note no use of initial capital here ) at the bottom of the forrest that are the danger. They burn better than the big trees and they burn faster/sooner. Unfortunately, they are not suitable for the lumber industry, but as Bush made some election campaign promises to those 'lumber' states then this would be a nice opportunity for him to fulfill the promise. (Note to prevent rapid escalation of party politics: no, I don't know whether Gore also made such a promise (and I think we never will know). He might have done the same, he might not, we don't know. But Bush did and he's acting to it).

Who cares about the environment anyway?

Marty

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Well, Fizzing, I certainly hope so.

Had this been the Tories, an entire school of Pirhana fish would be there waiting to rip the leader into shreds, and an entire flock of vultures would be hovering over the body afterwards... exactly what happened to dear old Maggie Thatcher. Thats how John Major got into power, remember?

I remember it well...in fact I may never forget the "treachery with a smile" speech. ::evil grin::

Long gone are the days of Tony Benn (that remarkable statesman, that formidable genius) and John Smith; now all we have is the meekish Jack Straw and the Draconian Blunket, a man I once admired.

Did you see Tony Benn on his 'town-hall meeting' tour? I can't stand David Blunkett...the policies he's brought in as home secretary, especially about refugees, are so draconian that even Tory home secretaries have admitted they'd have been sacked for suggesting such policies. There are still some excellent MPs in the party though - Dianne Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn, Alice Mahon to name just a few. It's just the Blair is so determined to exercise absolute control over the party that voices of opposition are so often ignored.

I'm not Brown's biggest fan, but I do agree that he would be a far better leader than Blair. I dread to even think of John "well of course he does, he's the Prime Minister" Prescott as PM. There was even talk of Blunkett replacing him as party leader, which is an even more frightening thought.

You see, save for a few exceptions, Tony Blair has created a weak cabinet who will basically do what he says, therefore there is no really STRONG contender for Blair's place. There is no drive, no ambition, and no one strong enough to kick Blair out.

Who do you see as the exceptions to that? I know Robin Cook and Clare Short have voiced "opposition" to the war, but neither really give the impression they intend to take any kind of action on the issue. But while there is little opposition within the Cabinet, there is clear opposition from the party as a whole, maybe that can have an impact on Blair.

 

[Anthony]

But while there is little opposition within the Cabinet, there is clear opposition from the party as a whole, maybe that can have an impact on Blair.

That may be in fact true, however, I believe that the opposition needs to be personified. It needs a figure head who has both the ambition and the drive to oppose Blair, and I don't just mean Clare SHort (who was one of the exceptions as identified by you), who's idea of opposition is resigning. I mean someone with enough Tory Backstabbing to remove Blair. I don't see this sort of muscle in the Party. I do hope, though, that you are right.

Time and time again I have said that the Left is too weak, hence the imminent rise of the Right.

I did see Tony Benn, it was my great pleasure to do so. He epitomises nearly EVERYTHING that I believe in politically (though he is a 'bit' too extreme in the removal of Capitalism for my liking - I believe it should be controlled, not removed). Its a shame that the only people with any sense, like Tony Benn and Mo Mowlam (a lady I really admire) are now no longer involved as they have lost faith in 'New' Labour.

Ant.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

That may be in fact true, however, I believe that the opposition needs to be personified. It needs a figure head who has both the ambition and the drive to oppose Blair, and I don't just mean Clare SHort (who was one of the exceptions as identified by you), who's idea of opposition is resigning. I mean someone with enough Tory Backstabbing to remove Blair. I don't see this sort of muscle in the Party. I do hope, though, that you are right.

I see what you're saying, it doesn't seem as though any of those who oppose Blair really have the ambition to become leader - they perhaps see their opposition as best expressed by speaking out against Blair as opposed to an attempt to replace him.

Time and time again I have said that the Left is too weak, hence the imminent rise of the Right.

Exactly. As soon as the left fails to take a strong position on an issue the void they leave is filled by the right-wingers. You only have to look at how right-wing Blunkett's asylum policies are and the way parties like the BNP have taken advantage to see this. Not to mention the massive defeat of Jospin's Socialist Party in France, who barely had a 'socialist' party to their name in their last five years in power.

 

[z edge]

If he does NOT take the proper advice, he will go down in history as the man who said yes to the President of the US
Ant.

Which is enough to run him out of office?

Of course, I forgot that we are the Great Satan

 

[Anthony]

z_edge;

Please, I implore you to read one of my earlier comments. It is NOT his allegiance with Bush and the US that bothers me most of all, what I'm complaining about, is his total disregard for the rule of law, Parliamentary procedure and outright democracy. Thats why it said that he will go down in history as the man who said Yes to the US AND SAID NO TO HIS OWN NATION. There, right there. I said it again and in capitals so that you can understand what I'm saying; its not his pro-American sentiments that bother me, its his seemingly Anti-British ones.

What I stated again and again, and then only to have Fizzing expand on that, is that 71% of Britain's population don't want this war. 90% of his own Labour government don't want this war. BRITAIN does not want this war.

Hence, since this IS a democracy (and democracy is what you're fighting for, right?) it effectively means that he has no right to overrule such democracy. He has NO RIGHT to put Bush, or America for that matter, before his own country. It doesnt matter to me if the US is Satan or Saint Peter, Blair's obligation is to Britain, not to the US.

Ant.

 

[Elvis]

Which is enough to run him out of office?

Of course, I forgot that we are the Great Satan

The next time you litter this forum with pictures like the one above, bombs, planes, etc... I will see to it that you lose that priviledge. You're becoming nothing more than a troll.

If you can not discuss topics without just trying to upset and piss people off... perhaps you should not be posting here. You've got an MO, and it's getting worse.

 

[z edge]

The next time you litter this forum with pictures like the one above, bombs, planes, etc... I will see to it that you lose that priviledge. You're becoming nothing more than a troll.

If you can not discuss topics without just trying to upset and piss people off... perhaps you should not be posting here. You've got an MO, and it's getting worse.

Excuse me?

I am a troll?

I have given 7 years of my life in service to YOUR country for YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR family. I have been in 2 buildings that have been blown up by terrorists, and I currently work in a facility with my continued service that is a terrorist target.

I have a sister and her new husband who both serve the military, and many cousins who do as well.

I would have gladly given my life for you or any other American to make our country safer. I have had a lot of remorse in my own heart that I was considered a protector of this country and that older citizens and children looked up to me, yet we were attacked and innocent civilians lost their lives while their families mourn and I am still around, a protector of this crap safe and sound.

And you have gone out of your way to extinguish my opinion with a threat, calling me a troll and accusing me of having motives.

Yet it is acceptable for other members to call me:

a coward
murderous
blasphemous
wish me to be bombed

and attack my beliefs:

Bush = Hitler
Republicans committ murder/ genocide on the elderly and the poor
my religion is blasphemy

and one MOD in particular publicly curses at me?

Every time I bring this to your attention you have no response other than to threaten me?

And you yourself have publicly alluded to me as a liar (re: fighters patrolling the cities of America)

Just wondering, have you ever made a personal sacrifice for our country?

Why do you Despise those of us that do?

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

I have given 7 years of my life in service to YOUR country for YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR family. I have been in 2 buildings that have been blown up by terrorists, and I currently work in a facility with my continued service that is a terrorist target.

and this excuses it how? i mentioned before that just because others do things that offend you here, doesn't excuse you from offending them back. if anything, all it does is make you stoop to their level. i'm sure there are some who have read this thread and lost a friend or loved one last year, or came close to it, and didn't need to see that picture as a reminder. i don't even see what it has to do with anything in the first place. military service doesn't make someone a better person than those who haven't.

 

[Salome]

and one MOD in particular publicly curses at me?

z edge, all I did was post "bite me" 1 time

if it would make you feel any better when I take that back then say so

 

[z edge]

Oh Nevermind.

I will remain FREE

I have my heart, my soul, my spirit, and my beliefs.

You can never take that away from me.

I AM FREE, this place is NOT!

I shall rise above the pity and soar amongst my dreams

I AM FREE

you can have this place

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

You're leaving us?

 

[Elvis]

1) I am a troll?

2) I have given 7 years of my life in service to YOUR country for YOUR safety and the safety of YOUR family. I have been in 2 buildings that have been blown up by terrorists, and I currently work in a facility with my continued service that is a terrorist target.

I have a sister and her new husband who both serve the military, and many cousins who do as well.

I would have gladly given my life for you or any other American to make our country safer. I have had a lot of remorse in my own heart that I was considered a protector of this country and that older citizens and children looked up to me, yet we were attacked and innocent civilians lost their lives while their families mourn and I am still around, a protector of this crap safe and sound.

3) And you have gone out of your way to extinguish my opinion with a threat, calling me a troll and accusing me of having motives.

4) Yet it is acceptable for other members to call me:

a coward
murderous
blasphemous
wish me to be bombed

and attack my beliefs:

Bush = Hitler
Republicans committ murder/ genocide on the elderly and the poor
my religion is blasphemy

5) and one MOD in particular publicly curses at me?

6) Every time I bring this to your attention you have no response other than to threaten me?

7) And you yourself have publicly alluded to me as a liar (re: fighters patrolling the cities of America)

8) Just wondering, have you ever made a personal sacrifice for our country?

9) Why do you Despise those of us that do?

My responses:

1) You've been asked to cease posting certain pictures - you've done it again.... you're now trolling.

2) And this has WHAT to do with your pictures exactly??? Lose the ego.

3) Your opinion? I told you the lose the pictures.

4) We're not talking about other people right now, are we?

5) I think he pointed out the 'bite me' example quite well, I'll let you deal with him on that issue.

6) uhm. I don't threaten you for bringing anything to my attention, I simply have given you a warning, which you neglect to respect.

7) I didnt allude to you as a liar, I questioned your information. Last time I checked, you weren't the official authority on anything (that Im aware of).

8) Yep, I pay you. Remember those things called taxes? Not to mention, I've assisted the FBI with a few investigations in the past (I'll choose not to go into detail - it's irrelevant).

9) Who said I do? Now you're really ASSUMING.

The truth is, you can try to use just about any excuse you want, but you do NOt know my personal convictions. I, for the most part, stay very unbiased on this forum - - to the point that at times I strongly disagree with admins/mods in order to keep their actions as unbiassed as possible.

Joel

 

[z edge]

My responses:

1) You've been asked to cease posting certain pictures - you've done it again.... you're now trolling.

2) And this has WHAT to do with your pictures exactly??? Lose the ego.

3) Your opinion? I told you the lose the pictures.

4) We're not talking about other people right now, are we?

5) I think he pointed out the 'bite me' example quite well, I'll let you deal with him on that issue.

6) uhm. I don't threaten you for bringing anything to my attention, I simply have given you a warning, which you neglect to respect.

7) I didnt allude to you as a liar, I questioned your information. Last time I checked, you weren't the official authority on anything (that Im aware of).

8) Yep, I pay you. Remember those things called taxes? Not to mention, I've assisted the FBI with a few investigations in the past (I'll choose not to go into detail - it's irrelevant).

9) Who said I do? Now you're really ASSUMING.

The truth is, you can try to use just about any excuse you want, but you do NOt know my personal convictions. I, for the most part, stay very unbiased on this forum - - to the point that at times I strongly disagree with admins/mods in order to keep their actions as unbiassed as possible.

Joel

My responses:

1) I have been asked to cease posting pictures, yet without explanation. I still don't understand why I have achieved your special attention with posting pictures here? Has anyone else? Don't you live next to a military base? Do you tell them to stop what they are doing so you won't find it offensive?

2) Lose the ego Very nice comment, I am glad you appreciate the sacrifices I have made for you and yours. Your welcome!

After sifting through the arrogance, I see your question: It has to do with (me posting pictures) the same old subjects raised again and again. I posted pictures because I grew tired out of the usual suspects going out of their way to hammer me.

I am sure that will give you a good laugh, as caring as you are.

3) My opinion? Yes, again you avoid the issues I brought to you and even point to another one of your orders.

4) Again, you avoid the issues I brought to you and point it all towrds me, publicly, I might add. (I started this by email/PM, remember- very troll-like?)

5) Let him deal with me-GREAT! The way it SHOULD be! Yet i seem to be confused here????
You want Salome (Shake it, shake it, shake it) and I to deal with our issues personally with it, but in the past when I have tried to deal with him "PERSONALLY" you have interviened? ALso, when I have been attacked numerous times (as I have pointed out to you numerous times now) I am not allowed to deal with these folks accordingly, yet if I bring it to your attention (as I was instructed to by all of the mods and you) i am told

We're not talking about other people right now, are we?

Again, I am confused ( ) by all of these standards???


6) I annoy you, I am a troll, Don't start a campaign against you. Not warnings, or compliments either.

Point being, I am NOT trying to start a campaign against you or anyone. Nor am I trying to annoy anyone.

I thought this was Free Your Mind: Discuss politics, spirituality, religion, world events


7) If I remember correctly, I told you there were fighter planes (oops, maybe I should have said ******* ****** so not to offend anyone ) in the air everyday around my city to which you told me no there weren't. I am not the official authority on everything, and you are NOT aware of everything either.

You also have no idea the scrutiny you can be under should we continue to have people post classified information on this forum.

Try me, I will show you all about my official authority.


8) You pay me? Very weak arguement, also very arrogant to those of us who have put our lives on the line so you can sit behind your computer. How brave of you!

Your arguement doesn't work because HEY! I pay taxes too!!! SO I PAY ME! HA!

For the painfully obvious, what have you done as a sacrifice for your country? Thanks for the FBI thing, again very brave.

If you are sooooo close to the FBI then ask them if they know me?

Better yet, ask yourself why you would choose to air out this shite in a public forum rather than in private. Of course, you can use your executive priviledge against me so you can have the last word as creator of interference. If so then fine, nice example for the new people to see.

I wonder why the donations are so low???? 10,000+ members, how much $$$ ???

And please keep this forum "LOGIN REQUIRED TO READ." Really hate to see "guests" (like FBI) able to be exposed to the dark underbelly of interference.

LATE

 

[hiphop]

You also have no idea the scrutiny you can be under should we continue to have people post classified information on this forum.

Who is posting classified information?

Question to whoever it is:

Who killed JFK?

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

I am confused

yep, so am i. i thought you were leaving. mind you, i'm not saying i want you to leave, i just find it to be immature for people to say they're leaving when they don't.

 

[U2Bama]

Are all plane pics banned?

 

[ABEL]

I rarely post here in FYM because I have never liked the constant arguing that goes on here. Z edge?s posts and pictures didn?t offend me, but the constant bickering that goes on here in this forum does. I understand that political debates become heated but what I see in this forum seems to regularly goes beyond that. Time and again I see arguments that split friendships and/or cause bannings, which occurs only in this forum. This forum is called FREE Your Mind?people should be allowed to voice their opinions, right or wrong, without getting attacked. I also think that NO ONE, mod or otherwise, should stoop as low as name-calling. FYM was even put in ?time-out? a couple months ago. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if I?m on a public message board with adults, or in grade-school.

 

[eebz]

I rarely post here in FYM because I have never liked the constant arguing that goes on here. Z edge?s posts and pictures didn?t offend me, but the constant bickering that goes on here in this forum does. I understand that political debates become heated but what I see in this forum seems to regularly goes beyond that. Time and again I see arguments that split friendships and/or cause bannings, which occurs only in this forum. This forum is called FREE Your Mind?people should be allowed to voice their opinions, right or wrong, without getting attacked. I also think that NO ONE, mod or otherwise, should stoop as low as name-calling. FYM was even put in ?time-out? a couple months ago. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if I?m on a public message board with adults, or in grade-school.

way to go, abel...i feel the same way...free your mind people...and this forum!

 

[Ali Rose]

EXACTLY what ABEL said.

Shame on everyone. This is a place of U2 Love. Not ganging up and attacking others. And I THOUGHT free speech. Apparently I was mistaken.

 

[U2Bama]

As the Honorable Senator Zell Miller (Democrat - Georgia) said in May of 2001:

"What is sorely needed around here is much more getting along and much less getting even. The poisonous partisanship that has pervaded this place on both sides of the aisle must end."

FREE YOUR MIND goes ALL ways. I am seeing too much name-calling, finger-pointing, tattle-telling and "your opinion is offensive"-ing in this place.

I truly miss the days of bonovista, 80sU2IsBest, Crzy4Bono, Spectre, and those who have left/been banned since then. Now it seems like more of a Cold War environment, complete with double agents (multiple handles who refuse to reveal themselves) and baiting tactics. What gives?

~U2Alabama

 

[Crzy4Bono]

I truly miss the days of bonovista, 80sU2IsBest, Crzy4Bono, Spectre, and those who have left/been banned since then. Now it seems like more of a Cold War environment, complete with double agents (multiple handles who refuse to reveal themselves) and baiting tactics. What gives?

~U2Alabama

Thanks Bama! I miss our debates too - you fascist. (I'm just kidding to everyone else who is reading here)
I'm not gone, just not nearly as vocal, for reasons like this thread exactly. So I'm actually lurking...
Civil debate is an awesome thing, name calling and petty bitching isn't.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[The Wanderer]

Keyote, apparently, will cost the global community anywhere from 75,000 to 250,00 jobs and billions of dollars, but those evil western governments will certainly be to blame