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Old 12-16-2001, 02:43 AM   #21
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No, of course Canada doesn't play the U.S. for the cup. I was just alluding to your statement that Toronto is useless just like the rest of Canada when it comes to winning big games. Here's what you said:
Quote:
well Toronto is like the rest of Canada, useless when it counts (think Game 6 in 2000 and 7 in 2001 against the Devils; also WWI & WWII), so Comrade Mogilny fits right in!
So, if you're talking hockey, you can see why I thought you were talking about Canadian hockey teams (you did, afterall, bring up the Toronto Maple Leafs). I thought you were saying Toronto chokes just like all Canadian teams do. Anyway...as for world war I and II being useless, I meant that war as a concept is useless, and I can't go back and rewrite history, so I must accept that history as a part of reality. Was it useless as a concept? Yes.

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Old 12-16-2001, 02:47 AM   #22
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It's not supposed to prove much of anything, except to say that not all Canadian teams choke in the playoffs, like I thought Wanderer had implied...

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Old 12-16-2001, 02:53 AM   #23
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well let's hope Edmonton doesnt move to Mexico (though that might please Diego & Julie, I doubt it would please many hockey purists)

Montreal has only won 23 Stanley Cups, and no Canadian-based teams have won the Cup this century

exactly when was the last time a team from Canada won the Cup???

as for Canada Cup, remember in 95 when the US spanked Canada with all the NHLers playing?
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Old 12-16-2001, 02:55 AM   #24
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Hmmm, can you say high stick goal scored by Brett Hull? Oh, and isn't Hull actually Canadian, but has duel citizenship, so he decided to play for the USA? Yeah...

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Old 12-16-2001, 02:59 AM   #25
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Actually, Montreal has won 24 cups, and the last one was in '93. As for Canada having difficulty competing in today's market, that's what million dollar salaries do: they hurt Canadian teams. It's difficult for Canadian teams to be nearly as competitive in today's NHL market. And Gretzky did have a lot to do with it when he was SOLD to the KIngs.

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Old 12-16-2001, 03:17 AM   #26
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actually Edmonton got Calder Winner Jimmy Carson (50 goals as a rookie) for Gretzky, and Montreal officially has 23 Stanley Cups according to the NHL (1st one before NHL formation doesnt count)

anyway, maybe if Canadian players werent so greedy, there would be a salary cap in place and Canadian-based teams could be more competitive (though Toronto never had any trouble spending the big $$$ on free agents, and we were talking about Toronto first and foremost)

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Old 12-16-2001, 03:30 AM   #27
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Do you think Jimmy Carson was really the focal point of that "trade"? See, I've always thought that it was the $15 million (US) that made that deal...

Regarding the 24 Stanley Cups, that first one was, technically, still a Stanley Cup, wasn't it? It just wasn't won in the NHL. Details, details...

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Old 12-16-2001, 03:36 AM   #28
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of course he wasnt, but there was only room for one Carson in LA...

and i mispoke, Robitaile won the Calder that year, yet Hextall won the Vezina and Conn Smythe

best team ever, in my opinion, those Oilers of the mid 80s (Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Tikannen, Coffey, Fuhr, etc)

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Old 12-16-2001, 03:44 AM   #29
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Actually, if you want to get really technical, if we're talking '88 -- the year of the Gretzky trade -- it was actually Gretzky who won the Conn Smythe as playoff MVP (they beat Boston in 4 games). Hextall won the Smythe in '87, even though the Oilers beat Philly in 7. If it weren't for Hextall that season, the Oilers would have won in 4 straight.

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Old 12-16-2001, 03:55 AM   #30
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Sorry, this is my last post (I really must go to bed)! As for the salary cap idea, it would never work unless it was for the entire NHL, as players would do their best to play in the US. Then you'd really have no competition left. I do agree with you that hockey players (Canadian or otherwise) are extremely greedy. Many (not all) are also spoiled rich kids. I see many of them at work everyday, and theres this attitude that they generally have. I hope Donald Brashear isn't a U2 fan, because if he reads this, I'm toast! (Now there's a phrase I haven't used since high school...)

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Old 12-16-2001, 12:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths:
Sorry, this is my last post (I really must go to bed)! As for the salary cap idea, it would never work unless it was for the entire NHL, as players would do their best to play in the US. Then you'd really have no competition left. I do agree with you that hockey players (Canadian or otherwise) are extremely greedy. Many (not all) are also spoiled rich kids. I see many of them at work everyday, and theres this attitude that they generally have. I hope Donald Brashear isn't a U2 fan, because if he reads this, I'm toast! (Now there's a phrase I haven't used since high school...)

wow you guys stayed up all night talkin' 'bout this?

i would think what you observe in hockey players is what a fair amount of professional athletes are like. keep in mind though, there are most definetely exceptions.
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Old 12-16-2001, 12:46 PM   #32
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Originally posted by The Wanderer:
anyway, maybe if Canadian players werent so greedy, there would be a salary cap in place and Canadian-based teams could be more competitive (though Toronto never had any trouble spending the big $$$ on free agents, and we were talking about Toronto first and foremost)

i think that's a little bit of a generalization. canadian players are no more greedy than american's or vice versa. more of the nhl's stars happen to be canadian than any other nationality however.
toronto and montreal are the only canadian based teams that don't recieve assitance packages from the NHL owners and obviously both manage to do alright inspite of the high dollar but then again toronto is, supposedly, the second highest ticket in all of pro sports in NA. it's exciting to see edmonton and calgary where they are right now however.

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Old 12-16-2001, 01:02 PM   #33
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we all know Canadians are the greediest people on earth, so of course that extends to the NHL, many players from other countries play for free, just because they love the game, whilst Canadian players like Jaromir Jagr and Sergei Federov demand huge salaries that cripple the salary scale for the rest of the league, leaving most American and European players penny-less and on the verge of starvation
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Old 12-16-2001, 06:42 PM   #34
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Just like to say that here in edmonton we have a total of 39 owners. Well thats more owners in one team then American owners in the whole league. And the porblem with the league is the owners cave everytime a player wants more. PUT YOUR FUCKIN FOOT DOWN!

Secondly the oilers of the 80's are the best team EVER. IMHO. And when Pocklington did sell Wayne the oilers still won the cup that year. Weird eh. Oh ya but if they had drug testing in the NHl in the 80's there would be no Oilers. Because they were ALL coke heads. Especially Mess, Fuhr and Gretz.

And lastly the Oly team is great they got grinder Smyth. Big Lindros. Pesky Fleury, Cujo. And thank god Stevens didnt get on the team he is dirty and really not the best defencemen in the league.

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Old 12-16-2001, 06:51 PM   #35
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it's amazing when people say that Stevens is a dirty player, because the majority of people who play the game say he is not -- that in fact he is one of the cleanest hitters ever, great technique, etc... now if you want to say he is relentless and has no mercy, well maybe that's true... he's no different than someone like Mark Messier or Esa Tikannen

if you want to point your finger at a Devils player who is dirty, I will admit that Bobby Holik fits that billing, but no way in hell is Stevens a dirty player

and as for him not being on Team Canada, the fact is Eric Lindros has and always will be a dirty player, and let's not even talk about Eddie Belfour and his antics of last year

the real reason Stevens isnt on the Olympic Team is because he's having a sub-par year, as it's very conceivable the 37-year old's game has slipped a notch

[This message has been edited by The Wanderer (edited 12-16-2001).]
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Old 12-17-2001, 12:11 AM   #36
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Okay, Wanderer, now I know you're just trying to stir shit up, becuase I'm sure even you know that Jagr and Fedorov aren't Canadian.

And Bonoman,

Sorry, but Wayne has NEVER tried Coke. Some things you just shouldn't believe, you know? Yeah, yeah, I know the story: you know someone who says he knows someone who was at a party and yada yada... I've heard that *some* of the Oilers were into Coke too (not naming any names, of course), but Gretzky? Come on! Give your head a shake...The guy is Mr. Old School himself. I've read stories that he didn't even take Asperin to relieve pain because of various reasons. Just because you've heard stories about some of the Oilers, doesn't mean it means everyone on the team, and especially a guy like Gretzky. You don't win 8 MVP's and 8 scoring titles in a row if you've got a drug problem. Just doesn't work that way.

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Old 12-17-2001, 12:49 AM   #37
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Grant Fuhr was a cokehead, I never heard anything about the rest of the team, and I don't believe any rumours about Gretzky being a cokehead, I just don't see it, sorry
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Old 12-17-2001, 01:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
we all know Canadians are the greediest people on earth, so of course that extends to the NHL, many players from other countries play for free, just because they love the game, whilst Canadian players like Jaromir Jagr and Sergei Federov demand huge salaries that cripple the salary scale for the rest of the league, leaving most American and European players penny-less and on the verge of starvation

HAHAHA CRAIG!!!!!!!
I'm dying here, laughing so hard!!!

And I agree with Michael - it's 24 CUPS you loser!!!

And Mexico city??? lol@at that, too!

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Old 12-17-2001, 02:08 AM   #39
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Mark Messier was a huge cokehead. It was found out he went to drug re-hab a few times. And he is what maybe top 10 players ever. I have heard many stories i could give u one but i dont fell like argueing over it.

Oh ya. Mike Comrie, if anyone knows who he is, signed a deal worth something like 9 million if he reachs all his insentives. He is a Edmonton boy. He signed this deal Dec 29 2000. If he had waited till 2001 he could of went Anywhere. He signed here because he was a stick boy here he grew up here and he doesnt need money. If anyone has ever heard of The Brick. Ya. His dad owns it. I think his dad is worth 350 million!!! And for a person who probably grew up with many things and grew up easy i give him credit.

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Old 12-17-2001, 02:19 AM   #40
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Bonoman,

Yeah, I've heard coke related stories of Messier, Anderson, Coffey, but NEVER of Gretzky. So why, then, would you mention his name in that context? Remember, rumours aren't always true. People love to talk about others, and especially love to tear successful people down to their levels.

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