Can anyone explain Scientology to me?

[Angela Harlem]

I met these 2 woman today who were, and they didnt tell me until they gave me a business card, but they were fascinating until I saw that. In fact they didnt mention anything about it, what they were telling me was about reflexology and stuff, I didnt think that had much to do with it, not that I have any real clue...But does anyone know?

 

[Kieran McConville]

Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
I met these 2 woman today who were, and they didnt tell me until they gave me a business card, but they were fascinating until I saw that. In fact they didnt mention anything about it, what they were telling me was about reflexology and stuff, I didnt think that had much to do with it, not that I have any real clue...But does anyone know?

Don't quote me on this Angie, but I believe the scientologists are indeed adherents of a lot of new-age remedies and the like. I think it might tie in with a belief about energy fields or something. A web-search for L. Ron Hubbard (their founder, and also a sci-fi writer) might prove enlightening.

PS. I am not a scientologist.

 

[Anthony]

Scientology can be summed up by simply saying; a bunch of fetid dingo kidneys.
What a load of crap.

I mean, did anybody SEE BattleField Earth, positively the worst movie ever made. Personally, I would check what the hell I was doing following a man who has the ability to write such a pathetic and remarkably stupid story (L.Ron Hubbard wrote the story). How anyone can even follow such a man is beyond me.

Don't get involved, its a bunch of crap.

Ant.

 

[foray]

i confuse scientology with christian science

so i dunno either

(puppy sleeping on lap - typing weirdly therefore)

foreplay

 

[Johnny Swallow]

A cult by any other name still leads to ritual suicide.

 

[Like O2]

Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
A cult by any other name still leads to ritual suicide.

Ouch!

 

[adam's_mistress]

I was approached by some Scientologists when I was in college. It was the beginning of my freshman year and the campus was rather large, and given my naivety, I didn't know I was approached by a Scientologist until I started receiving several phone calls -

Let me back up. This was 11 years ago. A young woman, my age, approached me while I was reading some ethinicites book for an assignment during a break from classes. She came right up to me and we started talking about different ethnicities in the US, and we chatted it up a bit. She seemed friendly enough, seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say. She pulled out a questionaire with a ton of questions on it, I mean a TON of questions: they were mainly health and spchologically based and the answers were divvied into A,B,C, format. She gave me the impression that these questions were for a psychology course, as during our conversation she had said she was a psych major and kept talking about her psych classes. I took the time and filled it out, but smartly enough I didn't disclose my phone number or address. I told her I didn't feel comfortable giving out personal information like that, and if it was a school project and they needed to contact me, then my name would be on file. She said, No Problem, she understood. And we quickly drifted into some interesting converstation. We talked some more for about an hour. She seemed like a very nice person and it seemed like we had a lot in common. We chit chatted about travel, music, etc. etc. We agreed to meet for coffee later that week. I let up my guard and gave her my phone number.

2 days later I had people from the Church of Scientolgy calling me, telling me that my questionaire had been evaluated, and wouldn't I come in for a counseltation? I told them no thankyou, and hung up. The next day I received not 1, but 2 more phone calls from Scientologists telling me they could "help" me. I said no. This went on for 8 days straight, as the final straw that broke my back was when they rang me at 7 am on a Sunday. I told them that questionaire or not, if they didn't stop harrassing me, I would take legal action. I never got another phone call.

Nor did I ever see that girl on campus ever again.

Beware, this type of stuff happens on college campuses all the time, as Scientologists see campuses as a breeding ground for for not only naivety, but for the easily influenced and swayed. (there's a few articles on the web speaking out against this type of college recruiting - do a search)

The way recruiters like the one you happened upon operate is that their actions (pleasant conversation revolving around health and psychology, hobbies - actually those types of questions are on the questionaire) may seem hardless enough, but there is ALWAYS an alterior motive. They are recruiters looking to spread the word of their own brand of 'gospel.'

The last time I was approached by a Scientologist was on my doorstep a year ago. I look fairly young for my age, and this woman, who was clearly younger than me, approached me on the premise of "I saw you at your car, I'm visitng a friend, haven't I seen you before, I think we went to high school together... you look familiar" I told her that it was probably impossible that we went to high school together, and she started in on this "seminar" business and we should get together sometime for lunch and talk... I shut the door in her face. Just goes to show that these people do indeed mean business, and will go about any sly way to trick their potential recruits into getting them inside the church.

Scientology is more or less a secret society. It is very hard to know exactly what it is mainly because to "know" about Scientology entails being a member of the church and paying soe hefty dues. It is fair to say you can find out information by reading the books by L. Ron Hubbard, but applying the Scientologist thought process means you paying your dues to the church so you can attain information on how the church is run, what it's members are encouraged to do in terms of recruiting, and how to apply the Scientologist thought process to every aspect of your life. There is literally a gag order set upon the members of the church - meaning: reeling possible members in, having them fill out quesitonaires that are about 150+ questions long, questioning them once they go in for their counseltation, pointing out every 'wrong' aspect in their lives, generally making that person feel worthless but "the church of Scientology can helP, and make them (the recruits) ask questions later.

It is very unlikely you will find any info on Scientology on the web (my father had to do a project for his job, as his company was approached by Scientologists as possible clients - the job was turned down by the company) The whole of Scientology is pretty much shrouded in secrecy AND most info on the web that sheds any light on how the church operates is shut down by the church of Scientology. As a fyi, the church's hardball tactics in the recruiting field are under the gun and the church was banned in Germany (there's articles on the web about that for sure.) As you may know there are many celebrities that are members of the church: John Travolta, Priscilla Presley, Alley Kirstie, and David Duchovney I believe. They have come out and said they were Scientologists, but they never really talk about it, ifyouknowwhatImean.

Just beware - but if you want to get a gist on what it's about, try reading L.Ron Hubbard's "Dianetics." That's the key book that the church of Scientology is based on.

*NOT a Scientologist*

 

[adam's_mistress]

Here's site you may want to check out. Sheds a most unpositive light on Scientology, I heard about it on a messageboard because someone was approached... I'm surprised this hasn't been shut down.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/secret.html

 

[Klodomir]

They preyed on me when I was a teenager, using the same questionnaire that adam's mistress mentioned, but we had been educated on cults at school, so I knew what it was about. Everything that adam's mistress says is accurate in my experience. I actually live next to one of them right now. He doesn't try to peddle it much, so I'm okay with him, but generally speaking I try to avoid them.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

WHOAH!! Thanks Adam's mistress! What a story. To be honest, I have no intention of joining any religion, such as this, I've only heard all the weird things (which seem to be the total sum of it) and wondered if anyone knew. I guess it would be hard to find out anything if they are so secretive. At first I thought she was just a bit of a greenie, she does a lot for the Bush Fire Brigades and seemed so nice. I have to admit though, I really smirked when I saw the business card, it reminded me of the soft selling of certain other 'religious' practices.

One thing I know, Im sure as shit not handing over 30% of my income to any new age cult!

Thanks.

***Still unsubscribed***

 

[CannibalisticArtist]

this is so fucking childish.

 

[Angela Harlem]

How is this childish?

 

[kobayashi]

i don't see why some of you are upset about the existence of this religion. granted their recruiting process appears to be blatantly over-aggressive, but i wouldn't doubt that some political parties or even other religions wouldn't push the same boundaries of common sense.

of course we think it's silly but if someone believes in it i fail to see the harm. it's not like their eating babies or something...

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reflective panelling

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited 01-21-2002).]

 

[Angela Harlem]

Thanks for clearing that up Cannibalistic Artist. I thought I had really offended someone there.

KobeObe, aren't all religions 'sold'? Even if the intentions are pure, there's this sense of needing to acquire mass numbers, to either make money off, or do some soul saving with.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
KobeObe, aren't all religions 'sold'? Even if the intentions are pure, there's this sense of needing to acquire mass numbers, to either make money off, or do some soul saving with.

i would agree with you but from an 'end user' perspective, someone can thoroughly enjoy the religion and find solace and happiness or whatever within it, and not want anything more to do with it.
i feel for everyone here who has been 'pursued', i have as well but by a different religion of which i believe some individuals on this board associate themselves with(i am not a part of any sort of religous organization).

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reflective panelling

 

[CannibalisticArtist]

Scientology i mean. do these so called "adults" have any better way to spend their time and money then to worship a sci-fi writer's BS? what next? the "force" will be a recognized religion? silly people.

 

[Clark W. Griswold Jr]

Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
"I saw you at your car, I'm visitng a friend, haven't I seen you before, I think we went to high school together... you look familiar"

The whole of Scientology is pretty much shrouded in secrecy

Mmmmm.... This is interesting. These tactics are the same ones used by AMWAY clowns looking for new blood. Coincidence?

 

[Kieran McConville]

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold, Jr:
Mmmmm.... This is interesting. These tactics are the same ones used by AMWAY clowns looking for new blood. Coincidence?

Amway people scare me. It's like they're all brainwashed by their dreams of endless wealth or something.

I tell ya, it's the word that dare not speak its name.

 

[mug222]

Well personally I find it just about as believable as following a 2,000 year old carpenter.

-->mug knows he will be destroyed for saying that.

 

[Screaming Flower]

*screaming flower quickly steps out of the way of the lightning that will soon hit mug*

 

[melon]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
what next? the "force" will be a recognized religion? silly people.

"Jedi knight" was forced to be listed as a religion in the U.K., due to so many people listing it in the last census.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by mug222:
Well personally I find it just about as believable as following a 2,000 year old carpenter.
B]

mug222, do you believe in God? if so, why is believing in Jesus Christ such a stretch?
And if you don't believe in God, why not? Is it easier for you to believe that we somehow evolved from nothing and somehow emotions got worked into the mix and that super complex machine we call a body just developed into what it is from absolutely nothing over a billion years? Or is it easier to believe that a creative force/personna started it all? Thinking that the world exploded into being out of pure accident is a much bigger stretch than believing in God. The chances that this world came from nothing with no creative power behind is about as likely as if you had a box that contained a million scraps of paper with one word on each scrap and you climbed up to the top of the Empire State building and then overturned the box and when it hit the ground, it collected in such a manner that it became Webster's dictionary. There's not much chance of that now, is there?

 

[mug222]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
mug222, do you believe in God?

I believe that question to be fundamentally (by the very essence of the question) unknowable. (If you put a gun to my head, on the other hand, I'd say no.)

if so, why is believing in Jesus Christ such a stretch?

What reason (WHATSOEVER!) is there to believe in Jesus Christ? Why should I equate him in my mind with anything vaguely resembling the possibility of some higher (and, again, unknowable) being? And, of course, citing the Bible is circular reasoning. Not to be cruel, because I can see how to others the concept of evolution and other scientific facts/models may be equally elusive, but it honestly boggles my mind. God is one question, but religion--Christianity, Judiasm (to which I belong nominally), Islam, Scientology, Jainism, you name it--is completely another, and has (in my mind, of course) absolutely no foundation anywhere. Anywhere. Absolutely anywhere, except in the imagination of men (and women).

And if you don't believe in God, why not? Is it easier for you to believe that we somehow evolved from nothing and somehow emotions got worked into the mix and that super complex machine we call a body just developed into what it is from absolutely nothing over a billion years? Or is it easier to believe that a creative force/personna started it all? Thinking that the world exploded into being out of pure accident is a much bigger stretch than believing in God. The chances that this world came from nothing with no creative power behind is about as likely as if you had a box that contained a million scraps of paper with one word on each scrap and you climbed up to the top of the Empire State building and then overturned the box and when it hit the ground, it collected in such a manner that it became Webster's dictionary. There's not much chance of that now, is there?

About as much chance as a great big man reaching down from the sky and arranging these scraps of paper into the Encyclopedia Britannica. (And far more chance than a carpenter putting down his tools and gluing together those same scraps of paper)

I apologize to the creater of this thread for hijacking the topic a bit...I get dragged into these debates quite easily, and even start them sometimes

[This message has been edited by mug222 (edited 01-22-2002).]

 

[scatteroflight]

Originally posted by mug222:
Well personally I find it just about as believable as following a 2,000 year old carpenter.

Whether or not you think Jesus was the Son of God, it's pretty obvious from his teachings and from the impact he has had on world history that he was/is more than "a 2000 year old carpenter."



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Love was never a single emotion

-ACROB@T

 

[mug222]

Originally posted by scatteroflight:

Whether or not you think Jesus was the Son of God, it's pretty obvious from his teachings and from the impact he has had on world history that he was/is more than "a 2000 year old carpenter."

Well, to a believer, of course.

To a non-believer, his impact has been negative, being the source of more wars and deaths than perhaps anyone in history. (indirectly, of course. I need not cite many wars founded on religion to prove this point).
Yes, his impact has been more than a 2,000 year old carpenter, and far worse.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by mug222:
To a non-believer, his impact has been negative, being the source of more wars and deaths than perhaps anyone in history. (indirectly, of course. I need not cite many wars founded on religion to prove this point).
Yes, his impact has been more than a 2,000 year old carpenter, and far worse.

mug222, Jesus Christ is not the cause of these wars and deaths and you know it, if you know His teachings.
If you spent you life preaching about love, and later someone murdered someone and did it in your name, who is the cause - you or the person who claimed to be murdering in your name? Certainly not you, because yopu preach love. That's the exact same thing with Jesus. Just because someone claimed the name of Jesus when waging these wars doesn't mean the person is a real Christian, and it certainly doesn't mean Jesus is teh cause of the wars.

 

[80sU2isBest]

originally posted by mug222:
What reason (WHATSOEVER!) is there to believe in Jesus Christ? Why should I equate him in my mind with anything vaguely resembling the possibility of some higher (and, again, unknowable) being? And, of course, citing the Bible is circular reasoning. Not to be cruel, because I can see how to others the concept of evolution and other scientific facts/models may be equally elusive, but it honestly boggles my mind. God is one question, but religion--Christianity, Judiasm (to which I belong nominally), Islam, Scientology, Jainism, you name it--is completely another, and has (in my mind, of course) absolutely no foundation anywhere. Anywhere. Absolutely anywhere, except in the imagination of men (and women).


80sU2isBest says:
There are other respected scholars besides Bible scholars who lived at the time of Christ and write of Jesus going around performing miracles. Have you never heard of the Jewish scholar Josephus Flavius?

 

[Achtung Bubba]

mug:

You're ignoring both the positive impact His existence has had on this planet (leading Christians to fight slavery, poverty, racism, etc.) AND the fact that the negative effects were ALL contrary to His teaching.

Christ said the two great commandments are to love God with all your being and to love your neighbors as yourself.

Certainly, there are those who broke those commandments and claimed to be doing so in His name, but its not Christ's fault those jackasses corrupted His message - and it's dishonest to suggest that it is.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 01-22-2002).]

 

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by melon:
"Jedi knight" was forced to be listed as a religion in the U.K., due to so many people listing it in the last census.

Melon

EXACTLY! LOL.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by mug222:
Well, to a believer, of course.

To a non-believer, his impact has been negative, being the source of more wars and deaths than perhaps anyone in history. (indirectly, of course. I need not cite many wars founded on religion to prove this point).
Yes, his impact has been more than a 2,000 year old carpenter, and far worse.

mug222;

You can't generalise like that at all, not everybody who doesn't believe in him think him negative, in fact, I would think the opposite; most DON'T. My father is the biggest athiest on the face of the Earth, however, he still values Jesus and loves what Jesus represents. As Acthung Bubba said, you can't blame pratts taking arms in the name of Christ on Jesus, it is neither right nor are you justified. Jesus once said that 'those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword', he never meant for anyone to use violence, to force their beliefs on anyone and never for an instant intended negative effects.

There is always an important distinction to be made between religion in itself and the interpretation of religion; interpretation can sometimes fall into the wrong minds, producing wars and never-ending violence. Whether you believe this or not, you can't say that all non-believers think of Jesus in a negative way.

My view of Jesus is that he was connected to God, that he had found God and he knew of his will, he had, in essence, become God. However, I am not a Catholic, if anything, I am very anti-catholic as I find it to be quite a fasicst institution. However, that does not discredit Jesus and what he stands for; to me, he stands for everything in life I want; union with God.

Returning to the topic at hand, I am sorry mug222, but there is a HUGE difference between christianity and the scientologists, even my father is able to recognise. Yes, all religions started off as and are in essence cults (the Catholic church was a cult under the Romans), however, not all cults are the same and this you must agree with. After all, the Catholic church preaches about God, peace on Earth, good will to your neighbour and basicallu upholds morality - scientologists are only interested in money money money.

Where Bono asks the question 'for love or money?' The Catholics say LOVE, while the Scientologists say MONEY! Its not an opinion, its the truth. In order to join you need to pay like a lump sum, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to pay for this you need to pay for that; they LEECH money out of you for God's sake.

Also, I'm not sure they even worship God, I'm pretty sure they preach about L. Ron Hubbard and his genius, which is pretty twisted, seeing as the man is the most untalented fool there ever was.

I never thought I'd see the day I would defend the Catholic Church, this is how strongly I feel about the distinction between them and the church of Scientology.

Ant.