Can an Oscar be taken back?

[Dreadsox]

I am curious.....does anyone know if an Oscar award can be taken back?

Having seen Bowling for Columbine and done some very simple research, apparently it is more fiction than Documentary. I would like to know if it is possible to have it reviewed by the acadamy since it is no more Documentary because of historical innacuracies than a Mel Gibson film called Patriot or Braveheart.

So what do you think? Is it possible? How many inaccuracies would be necessary to have this award removed and given to someone "moore" deserving?

[Angela Harlem]

You going to approach the Academy then?

[Salome]

how simple was your research?

[Angela Harlem]

Maybe there is evidence that Guns Dont Kill People.

[Salome]

if Titanic got 13 oscars or whatever Moore still deserves at least one though

[Angela Harlem]

I dont think Moore touched on the fact that Boats Kill People.

[Dreadsox]

Hmm...start a serious thread....and the moderators take the opportunity to make fun of it. Thanks guys for your support. I am sure the rest will treat it serious too.

[Angela Harlem]

So was the point to really ask whether an Oscar can be taken back or to begin a discussion on the legitimacy of the "facts" portrayed in this now alleged doco?



we're just shit stirring Dread

[Dreadsox]

Yes, do to the fact that there are quite a few innacuracies....I am seriously interested. Has there been an Oscar taken back.

[Dreadsox]

And a healthy discussion of the innacuracies may very well be appropriate.

[Angela Harlem]

I've never heard of one being taken back but I figure to remove his would be token gesturing.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

well grammys have been taken back, so why not oscars?

how i love mr. moore... serious social commentator when right, just a comedian when wrong.

doc�u�men�ta�ry
1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

well... we certainly know that mr. moore does a whole lot of editorializing, and he certainly inserts incorrect or "misleading" information to prove his point... but so do a lot of people who make "documentaries," and, frankly, so do most politicians.

and he better step very lightly with his latest "documentary," Fahrenheit 911... ironicly comming out this summer right before the election, in which he attempts to use the fact that the bush family did business with the bin laden family and twist it to meet his own political agenda. did the bush family do business with osama bin laden's father? yes... does osama bin laden have over 40 siblings, the majority of whom have disowned their brother? also yes... but i'm sure that will be skimmed over by mr. moore, who tends to prefer perception over reality.

[pax]

I wish they would take back James Cameron's...

[Dreadsox]

One example would be the speech that Mr. Moore attributes to Charlton Heston in Colorado after Columbine. The first part is from a speech months before columbine and the second part, which did happen, is edited to make it look like Mr. Heston was saying something awful to the people of Colorado on the heels of something so tradjic. I have read the text of his speech and it did not have the tone that was portrayed in bowling for Columbine, yet thanks to clever editing.....and cutting.....ouch.

[BVS]

Can you prove that he knew he was speaking inaccurately? I mean someone can always find evidence to prove their point.

I don't know of the inaccurcies you speak of, I've seen many points brought up about the movie, but I haven't seen any yet that show he fabricated or lied knowingly about the info. I don't think his Oscar will be taken away.

[Angela Harlem]

Do you think there might be a bit of a difference in reading the text of a speech (full or not) and hearing it spoken?
I dont think Michael Moore deserves a standing ovation for BFC, but Charlton Heston is an arse.

[BVS]

Originally posted by Angela Harlem

I dont think Michael Moore deserves a standing ovation for BFC, but Charlton Heston is an arse.

Well said...

[Dreadsox]

The speech was edited....and pieced together cutting out vast portions of the text. He also failed to acknowledge that the NRA cancelled most activities associated with their convention because of columbine.

[Q]NRA curtails convention
But Webb pushes group to cancel all functions

By Kevin Flynn
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







The National Rifle Association on Wednesday severely curtailed its national convention in Denver next week out of "profound sympathy and respect" for victims of the Columbine High School shooting.

But Denver Mayor Wellington Webb wants the group to cancel its meeting entirely and urged citizens to wage a call-in campaign.

"Everyday people can make a difference," Webb said. "They can call the NRA. Get the 800 number off the billboards and call them and tell them not to come to Denver."

Coincidentally, an NRA billboard along West Colfax Avenue advertising its convention was taken down Wednesday.

Webb offered to refund all deposits and other costs the NRA incurred in renting the convention center, if the group would cancel its meeting outright.

In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.[/Q]

[Dreadsox]

[Q]Heston's Denver speech as edited by Moore







Weeping children outside Columbine, explaining how near they had come to death and how their friends had just been murdered before their eyes;



Cut to Charleton Heston holding a musket over his head and happily proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'" to a cheering NRA crowd.

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore in voiceover intones: "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charleton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association." [But for this break, the viewer would spot that two different speeches are being merged, since Heston has lavender shirt and tie in the above speech, and white shirt and red tie in the one below.]

Heston (supposedly) continues speech...

"Good Morning. Thank you all for coming, and thank you for supporting your organization. I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today." [Footage of protest outside] "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. [picture of Webb, then back to Heston] He sent me this, and said 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I said to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. [cut to crowd cheering, then back to Heston] Don't come here? We're already here." [/Q]

actual speech:

[Q]Charlton Heston's Speech to the NRA

04 May, 1999

By Charlton Heston
CNS Information Services

(Editor's Note: The following remarks by NRA President Charlton Heston were transcribed by CNS from a RealVideo presentation of his speech before the NRA's national meeting in Denver, Colorado May 1.)

Thank you. Thank you very much. Good morning. I am very happy to welcome you to this abbreviated annual gathering of the National Rifle Association. Thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization.

I also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. Or course, you have a right to be here. As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that.

But it's fitting and proper that we should do this. Because NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.

I have a message from the mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the mayor of Denver. He sent me this and said don't come here, we don't want you here. I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing. But the mayor said don't come.

I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for the newspaper ads saying the same thing, don't come here. This is our country. As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.

They say we'll create a media distraction, but we were preceded here by hundreds of intrusive news crews. They say we'll create political distraction, but it's not been the NRA pressing for political advantage, calling press conferences to propose vast packages of new legislation.

Still they say don't come here. I guess what saddens me the most is how that suggests complicity. It implies that you and I and 80 million honest gun owners are somehow to blame, that we don't care. We don't care as much as they do, or that we don't deserve to be as shocked and horrified as every other soul in America mourning for the people of Littleton.

Don't come here. That's offensive. It's also absurd because we live here. There are thousands of NRA members in Denver, and tens upon tens of thousands in the state of Colorado.

NRA members labor in Denver's factories, they populate Denver's faculties, run Denver corporations, play on Colorado sports teams, work in media across the Front Range, parent and teach and coach Denver's children, attend Denver's churches and proudly represent Denver in uniform on the world's oceans and in the skies over Kosovo at this very moment.

NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surly among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.

One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today.

[/Q]

[meegannie]

I don't think I've ever seen a documentary that was 'objective.'