Busted for being drunk...in a bar...

[Irvine511]

As someone explained it on the news last night, it is illegal to serve more in a bar to a person who is already intoxicated.

this is true. i went to bartending school (don't ask), and they told us this, and i thought it was silly, but what can you do?

i have seen intoxicated people refused drinks. at a gay bar. in a city. where everyone walks home.

it just seems silly to me, these alcohol laws. i am as fascist as anyone about drinking and driving, and i could maybe see the police busting people leaving bars with keys in their hands, but come on, being drunk in a bar. it's like being full at a restaurant.

 

[DaveC]

i have seen intoxicated people refused drinks. at a gay bar.

How does being in a gay bar change the law about overserving a customer...?

 

[Irvine511]

How does being in a gay bar change the law about overserving a customer...?

not much. was just adding some local color.

 

[financeguy]

How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?

Obviously there are standards to assess whether a person is drunk in charge of a vehicle - should the same standards be applied where there is no indication that they have intended driving a vehicle whle intoxicated?

To me this again raises the issue of government bureaucrats and the nanny state thinking up new ways of spending TAXPAYERS' MONEY.

 

[VintagePunk]

How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?

I've been wondering the same thing. I know that bartenders have training in this area, but it's still very subjective. There have been times, no doubt, where I have been in bars, and probably should have been cut off, but I never have been. I've seen many others cut off, though, and for very little reason, IMO.

I also wonder what will happen if policies like this are not legally challenged, or if the challenges fall in favour of the authorities. How will this impact the ability of bar owners to run a profitable business?

 

[nbcrusader]

How is a decision as to whether a person is intoxicated or not made? And who makes the decision?

It is a combination of objective and subjective factors.

Objectively, there is blood alcohol level. Obviously, it cannot be tested until there is probable cause, so subjective standards are used. A reasonable person standard is then the measuring stick for conclusions drawn from observed behavior. Staggering or slurred speech may help draw such a conclusion.

Bottom line - absent a non-invasive way to test objectively, we will always need to rely on the subjective standards.

 

[financeguy]

It is a combination of objective and subjective factors.

Objectively, there is blood alcohol level. Obviously, it cannot be tested until there is probable cause, so subjective standards are used. A reasonable person standard is then the measuring stick for conclusions drawn from observed behavior. Staggering or slurred speech may help draw such a conclusion.

Bottom line - absent a non-invasive way to test objectively, we will always need to rely on the subjective standards.

All of the above makes sense - although interestingly some jurisdictions have implemented random breath testing for motorists - i.e. no probable cause is required.

However I do not think it reasonable to apply the same tests to public intoxication and drunk driving.

I feel public intoxication should be legally defined to encompass only situations where the person is creating an annoyance, hassling or threatening people, etc.

 

[verte76]

I guess it technically is still public intoxication - bars being public accommodations. This will put a huge burden on the bar owners.

Yes, bars are public accomodations. But not all of the people in there are going to be driving.

 

[Carek1230]

I saw this on the news last night and I think this is unfair to have cops combing bars for intoxicated patrons. It's one thing to prevent these folks from getting behind the wheels of a car, but I feel it is a bit of a violation of a person's rights to frequent a public bar to drink alcohol. Especially if this person is not a nuisance drunk but minding his/her own business. Cops can sit outside waiting for someone intoxicated to exit the bar and attempt to get behind the wheel of a car to test and/or arrest them.

I mean, get a grip.....people can't smoke outside or in many places inside anymore. Now if there is the threat of being arrested for getting drunk in a bar, there's nothing fun to do anymore! Seriously, what's next? The alcohol police will be expanding through our neighborhoods entering our backyard BBQs, private dinner parties, gatherings, concerts and celebrations arresting any folks who become intoxicated?

 

[JMScoopy]

i smell some horseshit

just a new way to get more money outta people from fines.

 

[JMScoopy]

Ah yes, this story reminds me of bar laws in college.

In Champaign, one must be 19 years old to enter a bar. (drinking age still 21) The police would raid bars and give tickets to anyone under 21 who was within an arm's length of a drink. Doesn't matter if you are drinking it or not. The arm's length was enough to get you a $275 dollar ticket. Really, a college bar? In Champaign? Everyone is within an arm's length of a drink. What a scam.

I never got caught but my sister racked up 2 tickets before turning 21.

fucking college police

im paying $10,000 to go up here every semester, and they gotta bust their asses to give be chickenshit parking tickets, such as "left wheel to curb". WTF is that?! How the fuck was i supposed to know i couldnt park that way? Also, the boro cops here show no mercy when it comes to drinking. if they catch you with a .03 BAC 1 hour before your 21st birthday, they wont even hesitate to give you an underage. They also wait around bars so they can catch people, who chose not to drive drunk, who stumble walking home.

bastards!!!

 

[Carek1230]

Fines, income taxes, sales taxes, local state and county taxes, license fees, registration fees, tickets, credit card interest, loan interest, ridiculous oil prices......we're being taxed and nickel and dimed to death. What the hell is this world coming to?

 

[MrBrau1]

If everyone simply obeyed the law, none of these fines would be necessary.

The world would be a better place.

 

[Chizip]

ive been to bartending school too, and it is indeed illegal for a bartender to serve to the point of intoxication and over.

if a drunk person gets in a car and gets into an accident on the way home, the victim can sue the driver, the bartender, and the bar because they all performed illegal acts.

bartenders must go through something called Tips training, http://www.gettips.com/ to learn how to determine if someone is drunk, and what measures to take. Getting Tips certified provides some protection for the bartender and the bar.

having cops in the bar to help prevent this is just another measure the bars can take to protect themselves. being at public bar is not like being at your private home, if you get wasted at a bar you have to leave at some point and when you do its public intoxication and you are putting people in danger.

 

[fly so high!]

I was a bartender at a club a few years ago when i was told by my supervisor to refuse a patron drinks if he came up again,the poor guy came up and asked for his scooner...and my god...i went pale and told him sorry sir,i can't do that,you are intoxicated and he started screaming "Fuck you C****,B****" More profanities were thrown my way, the guy got into a fight , taken to a cop shop ...all over a scooner!

The guy was drunk but not wasted IMHO!

When my shift was over i asked my Boss how come he asked me to do that and he said it was the law and it was to reduce.......get this.......disorderly behaviour,verbal/physical abuse!!

I agree it's just another measure of revenue raising!!!

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

having cops in the bar to help prevent this is just another measure the bars can take to protect themselves. being at public bar is not like being at your private home, if you get wasted at a bar you have to leave at some point and when you do its public intoxication and you are putting people in danger.

So, if an intoxicated person gets in a cab outside a bar and is dropped off at their front door who is put in danger?

Do you really think bars are worried about keeping their patrons sober in their establishment? That seems absurd.

I was Tips certified too at one point. I seem to remember being told that if partons are ticketed in a bar that the bar will be ticketed as well.

if they catch you with a .03 BAC 1 hour before your 21st birthday, they wont even hesitate to give you an underage.

Well, yes. That makes sense. You're not 21 yet.

 

[JMScoopy]

Well, yes. That makes sense. You're not 21 yet.

jesus christ, dont you think that's kinda chickenshit though? remember, i said they wont hesitate, discretion is not in their vocabulary.

have you ever got an underage? they are a total pain in the ass. the punishment totally outweighs the crime.

here in PA the punishment for 1st offense is:

- $300 fine
- Madatory 90 day drivers license suspension (even if it has nothing to do with a car)
- Possible 90 DAYS IN JAIL!!!!!!!!!!

if you think that punishment is fitting for having a few beers under 21, well you're an asshole.

well, in 23 days i can tell them to take their underage drinking laws and shove em' up their fucking asses!

 

[yolland]

jesus christ, dont you think that's kinda chickenshit though?

if you think that punishment is fitting for having a few beers under 21, well you're an asshole.

Uncalled for, and adds nothing to your point...no personal attacks please.

 

[JMScoopy]

Uncalled for, and adds nothing to your point...no personal attacks please.

i didnt mean it to be personal, i meant in general if someone thinks that.

sorry, kind of a touchy subject with me, because of recent events

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Ah yes, this story reminds me of bar laws in college.

In Champaign, one must be 19 years old to enter a bar. (drinking age still 21) The police would raid bars and give tickets to anyone under 21 who was within an arm's length of a drink. Doesn't matter if you are drinking it or not. The arm's length was enough to get you a $275 dollar ticket. Really, a college bar? In Champaign? Everyone is within an arm's length of a drink. What a scam.

I never got caught but my sister racked up 2 tickets before turning 21.

Is bar entrance age still 19 in Champaign, in 2006?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Is bar entrance age still 19 in Champaign, in 2006?

It was in 2005.

 

[Liesje]

jesus christ, dont you think that's kinda chickenshit though? remember, i said they wont hesitate, discretion is not in their vocabulary.

have you ever got an underage? they are a total pain in the ass. the punishment totally outweighs the crime.

here in PA the punishment for 1st offense is:

- $300 fine
- Madatory 90 day drivers license suspension (even if it has nothing to do with a car)
- Possible 90 DAYS IN JAIL!!!!!!!!!!

if you think that punishment is fitting for having a few beers under 21, well you're an asshole.

The law's the law My little brother got busted, similar situation to yours, and I don't think he's ever made such a big stink about it. He made the choice, he paid for the consequences.

The thing with underage drinking and getting caught is it RARELY happens that people get busted ONLY because they're drinking underage. They're usually doing things that are more stupid, like being rude and obnoxious, or making a scene in public, things that piss other people off and get the cops' attention. I've seen people literally having keggars on a crowded public beach and then they get busted and think the cops are the ones being assholes. Honestly, it's not the underage drinking that bothers me, it's the other annoying, immature shit that usually goes hand-in-hand.

If anyone needs to practice better discretion when it comes to underage drinking, my guess is it's not the cops...

 

[Anu]

It's not the intoxication that's the problem, it's what one does with it. Same goes for sobriety.

Following the logic of this thread and America in the last 30 years, what we really need is a war on sobriety.

Think of all the crimes comitted by sober people: tasering innocent civilians, bombing innocent civilians, caning and paddling innocent children, working for criminal syndicates like large corporations and governments.

Busting people for being drunk in the last vestige for communal drunkenness will only encourage thme to just throw back the beers and the shots in the car itself. Why bother even going to the bar?

People in Texas can always move to New Orleans, where an entirely different standard still exists.

Anu

 

[Chizip]

People in Texas can always move to New Orleans, where an entirely different standard still exists.

Umm I'm willing to bet they have the same public intoxication laws in New Orleans as in Texas

I found this on a new orleans police website:

http://www.nopdonline.com/tips.htm

"While we want you to have a good time in New Orleans, you must remember that we have residents whose peace must not be disturbed. You can drink in public but you cannot become intoxicated, damage property, injure anyone, or sleep on the property of others."

Nobody is saying people can't go to a bar and drink, its called drinking in moderation. But if people just go out to a public place to get shit faced thats public intoxication whether your in the bar or on the street.

 

[phanan]

Umm I'm willing to bet they have the same public intoxication laws in New Orleans as in Texas

I'll take New Orleans.

 

[verte76]

I'll take New Orleans, too.

 

[JMScoopy]

The thing with underage drinking and getting caught is it RARELY happens that people get busted ONLY because they're drinking underage. They're usually doing things that are more stupid, like being rude and obnoxious, or making a scene in public, things that piss other people off and get the cops' attention. I've seen people literally having keggars on a crowded public beach and then they get busted and think the cops are the ones being assholes. Honestly, it's not the underage drinking that bothers me, it's the other annoying, immature shit that usually goes hand-in-hand.

yeah, like walking out of a house and the police waiting outside to bust someone. thats was real obnoxious behavior of me.

BTW, i bet your brother wasnt 2 months from being 21 when he got busted.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

yeah, like walking out of a house and the police waiting outside to bust someone. thats was real obnoxious behavior of me.

BTW, i bet your brother wasnt 2 months from being 21 when he got busted.

Why does it matter when someone is busted for underage drinking? If you drink underage you have to be prepared for the consequences no matter how close to 21 you are. It's common sense.

 

[JMScoopy]

if you were a cop, would you bust someone for underage drinking if they were a week from being 21?
what if they are out partying 2 hours before their midnight birthday and you catch them?
saying they werent doing anything stupid of course.

i know what the law is for chrissake, im saying the police could use more discretion instead of being pricks and busting as many people as they can. If you went to IUP, you'd understand.

 

[JMScoopy]

i take it you people are all over 21 then.

i guess after im 21, i'll be saying the same shit as you all!