Bush Starts "Second Surge" to Double Number of Troops in Iraq

[martha]

When the fuck are all you pro-war kids joining up to "finish the job"?

 

[redhotswami]

The only ways to win this war involve increasing the number of troops.

No it is certainly not the only way to resolve this conflict.

And my point which I was making earlier, is that everyone who thinks we need more troops, or who politically supports this absurd war, should go to the nearest recruiter and sign up. My friends who have been to Iraq, or are on their way, agree that this is a mess we've gotten ourselves into. Yet there are plenty people who disagree who haven't set foot there. You want more troops? Add your name. This isn't just about numbers. These are real lives.


ETA: as usual, in what takes me 3 minutes to write, martha sums up much better in a one-liner that emcompasses everything.

 

[redhotswami]

nevermind.

 

[2861U2]

When the fuck are all you pro-war kids joining up to "finish the job"?

I'm kind of tired of answering this. We dont have a draft. I dont have to join the military if I dont want to, and I dont want to. Obvioulsy, the kids overseas feel differently, and DO want to fight.

If you want to play that game, why dont you take the next plane to Africa, give every cent you have to the people living there, and invite as many as you can to come back to America and live in your house with you?

You can support a cause in a number of different ways, martha.

 

[randhail]

I'm kind of tired of answering this. We dont have a draft. I dont have to join the military if I dont want to, and I dont want to. Obvioulsy, the kids overseas feel differently, and DO want to fight.

I'm curious to know how many soldiers over there still want to fight after completing year long tours and then get shipped right back over there. Or how many National Guardsmen signed up thinking that they would be over fighting a war rather than giving their weekend a month and supporting the country on the domestic front.

What exactly are you doing to support the troops? Are you organizing any sort of clothing drive or book drive?

You may not want to fight, but you have no problems sending other people over to fight - which is complete bullshit. You play the role of an armchair quarterback while they dodge IEDs. It's the better you than me attitude or you signed up for it attitude which says so much about the war and this country right now.

 

[2861U2]

I'm curious to know how many soldiers over there still want to fight after completing year long tours and then get shipped right back over there. Or how many National Guardsmen signed up thinking that they would be over fighting a war rather than giving their weekend a month and supporting the country on the domestic front.

What exactly are you doing to support the troops? Are you organizing any sort of clothing drive or book drive?

You may not want to fight, but you have no problems sending other people over to fight - which is complete bullshit. You play the role of an armchair quarterback while they dodge IEDs. It's the better you than me attitude or you signed up for it attitude which says so much about the war and this country right now.

Come on, you know just as well as I do that I am not "sending other people over to fight." I'm pretty sure I have not done that. And you're in no position to say what kind of "attitude" I have.

The brave kids that signed up probably did not foresee the current situation, but THEY JOINED THE MILITARY. I would believe that anyone who signs up to go to war knows that there is a possibility of death.

 

[BVS]

2861U2, it's obvious your knowledge on the war is lacking, but it's also becoming apparent that your logic is failing as well.

"You may not want to fight, but you have no problems sending other people over to fight"

What part of that line didn't make sense to you? You're pushing for more troops in a dead end war, tell me why exactly you are willing to join, you're the perfect age?

 

[2861U2]

No, my knowledge of the war is fine. I guess I'm the only one who sees the consequences of us simply leaving Iraq. I guess I'm the only one who understands that leaving Iraq will not make the terrorist problem go away.

 

[BVS]

No, my knowledge of the war is fine.

No, given your satellite comment your knowledge is grossly flawed. GROSSLY...

I guess I'm the only one who sees the consequences of us simply leaving Iraq. I guess I'm the only one who understands that leaving Iraq will not make the terrorist problem go away.

That's not what we're talking about here, you are talking about surging more troops, something that many even in the military think is a huge mistake. And I haven't seen any evidence or solution that says Iraq will make a terrorist problem go away.

 

[redhotswami]

The brave kids that signed up probably did not foresee the current situation, but THEY JOINED THE MILITARY. I would believe that anyone who signs up to go to war knows that there is a possibility of death.

And you've managed to contradict yourself. You just said they couldn't forsee the current situation, then you say they signed up to go to war? I don't know a single person in the military who signed up "to go to war." Like I said before, my friends certainly do not agree with the way this war is being managed, but yet are being sent back, or having their tours extended because people like you want to keep them there, yet refuse to go themselves.

I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing. What is holding you back from contributing to this surge that you believe in so much?

 

[redhotswami]

I guess I'm the only one who understands that leaving Iraq will not make the terrorist problem go away.

Staying in Iraq will not make the terrorist problem go away. Remember the terrorist attack from September 11? Was that done by Iraquis? No???

 

[Snowlock]

Hilarious. The liberals bitch that the low troops numbers are an explanation as to why the job isn't getting done in Iraq and then bitch when the levels are going to increase.

JUST BE HONEST!!

Say what you really mean... You could give a shit less about the people of Iraq or anywhere else as long as your ideology wins. You'll support anything anti conservative or anti American as long as it proves you "right"; and that includes terrorism and/or dictatorships.

Or, you feel that Iraqi's are just too savage for democracy to ever work.

Stop bitching and just be honest, if not with the public, at least with yourselves. You're a disgrace; all of you. Grow the fuck up.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Hilarious. The liberals bitch that the low troops numbers are an explanation as to why the job isn't getting done in Iraq and then bitch when the levels are going to increase.

JUST BE HONEST!!

Say what you really mean... You could give a shit less about the people of Iraq or anywhere else as long as your ideology wins. You'll support anything anti conservative or anti American as long as it proves you "right"; and that includes terrorism and/or dictatorships.

Or, you feel that Iraqi's are just too savage for democracy to ever work.

Stop bitching and just be honest, if not with the public, at least with yourselves. You're a disgrace; all of you. Grow the fuck up.

Excuse me, but I know someone whose only son was just killed in Iraq last week. For some of us, it has nothing to do with being right about an ideology, or about being anti-conservative. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Andrew J. Bacevich, 27, of Walpole, Mass., was killed in Iraq.

 

[2861U2]

Remember the terrorist attack from September 11? Was that done by Iraquis? No???

No, September 11th was not committed by Iraq, you are exactly right. Al-Qaeda attacked us, and Al-Qaeda, along with having haven in Afghanistan, also operates in Iraq. Remember when President Bush addressed the nation on 9/11? He said we will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them. Iraq harbors and generates terrorists.

I would ask YOU to remember September 11th. Remember how you felt? I am hoping that you would be wanting our military to do everything it possibly can to make sure that doesnt happen again- not just saying "oh well, we cant win, everyone come home and lets await another attack."

 

[BVS]

Hilarious. The liberals bitch that the low troops numbers are an explanation as to why the job isn't getting done in Iraq and then bitch when the levels are going to increase.

JUST BE HONEST!!

Say what you really mean... You could give a shit less about the people of Iraq or anywhere else as long as your ideology wins. You'll support anything anti conservative or anti American as long as it proves you "right"; and that includes terrorism and/or dictatorships.

Or, you feel that Iraqi's are just too savage for democracy to ever work.

Stop bitching and just be honest, if not with the public, at least with yourselves. You're a disgrace; all of you. Grow the fuck up.

Never once heard a liberal bitch about low troop count, just improper execution and not supplying the troops with the right equipment.

As for the rest of your post, it's useless and not worth responding to. You may want to try and stick to the facts someday.

 

[BVS]

No, September 11th was not committed by Iraq, you are exactly right. Al-Qaeda attacked us, and Al-Qaeda, along with having haven in Afghanistan, also operates in Iraq. Remember when President Bush addressed the nation on 9/11? He said we will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them. Iraq harbors and generates terrorists.

Since your knowledge is so vast about this subject, please tell me how many known Al-Queda camps or terrorists were in Iraq prior to our invasion and how much were in Saudi Arabia?

 

[yolland]

Let's keep the excessive sarcasm and personalized sniping out of it please, folks...won't help the discussion any.

 

[phanan]

No, September 11th was not committed by Iraq, you are exactly right. Al-Qaeda attacked us, and Al-Qaeda, along with having haven in Afghanistan, also operates in Iraq. Remember when President Bush addressed the nation on 9/11? He said we will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them. Iraq harbors and generates terrorists.

I would ask YOU to remember September 11th. Remember how you felt? I am hoping that you would be wanting our military to do everything it possibly can to make sure that doesnt happen again- not just saying "oh well, we cant win, everyone come home and lets await another attack."

9/11 had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Iraq. They weren't operating in Iraq at the time.

Unfortunately, based on Bush's catastrophic decision to go to war in Iraq, they are operating there now.

 

[BVS]

It's amazing how we've had basically 5 years to clear up these facts and some haven't figured it out.

 

[deep]

US Embassy in Iraq World's Biggest






WASHINGTON , May 21--The new US Embassy in Baghdad will be the world's largest and most expensive foreign mission, though it may not be large enough or secure enough to cope with the chaos in Iraq.

The Bush administration designed the 104-acre (42-hectare) compound--set to open in September in what today is a war zone--to be an ultra-secure enclave.

The $592 million embassy occupies a chunk of prime real estate two-thirds the size of Washington's National Mall, with desk space for about 1,000 people behind high, blast-resistant walls.

Although the US probably will have forces in Iraq for years to come, it is not clear how much of the traditional work of diplomacy can proceed amid the violence and what the future holds for Iraq's government.

"What you have is a situation in which they are building an embassy without really thinking about what its functions are," said Edward Peck, a former top US diplomat in Iraq.

"What kind of embassy is it when everybody lives inside and it's blast-proof, and people are running around with helmets and crouching behind sandbags?"

The compound will have secure apartments for about 615 people.

Morale is at an ebb among the embassy staff, most of whom rarely leave the heavily fortified Green Zone during their one-year tours in Iraq. The barricaded zone houses both the current, makeshift US Embassy and the new compound about a mile (1.61 kilometer) away. A recent string of mortar attacks has meant further restrictions.

On Saturday, three mortar shells or rockets slammed into a Green Zone compound where British Prime Minister Tony Blair was meeting with Iraqi leaders. The attack wounded one person. One round hit the British Embassy compound.

"We do believe that the embassy compound was right-sized at the time that it was presented to the Congress," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told a Senate panel this month. "There have been some additional issues since that time."

Rice's senior adviser on Iraq, David Satterfield, alleged the embassy is not disproportionately expensive and will serve US interests for years. The second-most expensive embassy is the smaller, $434 million US mission being built in Beijing.

"The Baghdad Embassy will open in September and be fully staffed by the end of the year," Satterfield said. US diplomats will move from a Saddam Hussein-era palace they have occupied since shortly after the 2003 invasion.

The International Crisis Group, a non-governmental organization that seeks to prevent and resolve conflicts, has identified the complex as the world's largest embassy.

The organization notes that the embassy is a sore point with Iraqis who are fed up with war, violence and roadblocks while the US still controls things more than four years after Saddam's ouster.

The embassy has ordered its staff to wear flak jackets and helmets while outdoors or in unprotected buildings. The order was issued one day after a rocket attack killed four Asian contractors in the Green Zone this month.

Who gave the Americans this prime piece of property?


Which embassy is larger?

U. S. Embassy in China, population 1.3 billion? largest trading partner


or Iraq Embassy population 23 million?

 

[trevster2k]

U. S. Embassy in China, population 1.3 billion? largest trading partner

Actually, Canada is still the largest trading partner of the U.S but point taken.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Since your knowledge is so vast about this subject, please tell me how many known Al-Queda camps or terrorists were in Iraq prior to our invasion and how much were in Saudi Arabia?

Are we counting Kurdistan, or doesn't it count because of the No Fly zone?

 

[BVS]

Are we counting Kurdistan, or doesn't it count because of the No Fly zone?

Just answer in the context of this statment:

No, September 11th was not committed by Iraq, you are exactly right. Al-Qaeda attacked us, and Al-Qaeda, along with having haven in Afghanistan, also operates in Iraq. Remember when President Bush addressed the nation on 9/11? He said we will make no distinction between those who committed these acts and those who harbor them. Iraq harbors and generates terrorists.

 

[martha]

I dont have to join the military if I dont want to, and I dont want to. Obvioulsy, the kids overseas feel differently, and DO want to fight.

If you want to play that game, why dont you take the next plane to Africa, give every cent you have to the people living there, and invite as many as you can to come back to America and live in your house with you?

You can support a cause in a number of different ways, martha.

But supporting help for Africa doesn't involve people getting killed for someone else's ideals. Your favoring the killing of soldiers; war means death.

Until you're completely willing to do that, your rabid support for the war rings false and hollow, and your self-righteous posturing is suspect.

 

[martha]

JUST BE HONEST!!

Honestly, I've been against the war since it was just a bee up the president's ass. I'm not a newcomer to the anti-war crowd.

Say what you really mean... YGrow the fuck up.

If growing the fuck up means supporting a war that I'm unwilling to fight myself, falling for every line the president throws me, no thanks. If giving a shit means supporting policies that create terrorism, rather than preventing it, I'll be what you consider callous.

Killing the parents of children in Iraq, maiming yoiung Iraqi adults, creating a situation that promotes civil war isn't pro-American. It's making sure that terrorists have plenty of reasons to hate us in the future.

Which may actually be what the Right is hoping for: more excuses to fight wars which make them rich.

 

[2861U2]

Honestly, I've been against the war since it was just a bee up the president's ass. I'm not a newcomer to the anti-war crowd.

Is that so?

Well then, would you like to condemn the statements of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and the others who voted for this war and who believed Saddam was a threat? Would you like to condemn Hillary for voting for this war and then bragging when we caught Saddam?

I guess when President Bush says something, its a lie, but when Dems say the exact same thing, it's something else.

 

[martha]

Is that so?

Well then, would you like to condemn the statements of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and the others who voted for this war and who believed Saddam was a threat? Would you like to condemn Hillary for voting for this war and then bragging when we caught Saddam?

I guess when President Bush says something, its a lie, but when Dems say the exact same thing, it's something else.

You live on assumptions, don't you? Does it make it easier for you if you don't have to think? If you can just live in your assumptions?

How do you know I'm NOT pissed at those Democrats? If you think the Democrats are one big happy family, you've been misguided.

 

[martha]

Well then, would you like to condemn the statements of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and the others who voted for this war and who believed Saddam was a threat? Would you like to condemn Hillary for voting for this war and then bragging when we caught Saddam?

YES.

 

[BVS]

Is that so?

Well then, would you like to condemn the statements of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy and the others who voted for this war and who believed Saddam was a threat? Would you like to condemn Hillary for voting for this war and then bragging when we caught Saddam?

I guess when President Bush says something, its a lie, but when Dems say the exact same thing, it's something else.

Yes I will condemn them, but at least most of them have admitted that now seeing that the "evidence" presented to them was false, they know they were in the wrong.

You still think we have satellite images.

 

[2861U2]

Did they lie to America? Either everyone lied, or no one lied.