Bush Pushes for New Nukes

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sulawesigirl4

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Published on Monday, July 7, 2003 by USAToday
Bush Pushes for New Nukes
by Tom Squitieri

MERCURY, Nev. ? If the Bush administration succeeds in its determined but little-noticed push to develop a new generation of nuclear weapons, this sun-baked desert flatland 65 miles northwest of Las Vegas could once again reverberate with the ground-shaking thumps of nuclear explosions that used to be common here.

The nuclear-weapons test areas are now a wasteland that is home mostly to lizards and coyotes. Throughout the Nevada Test Site, the ground is strewn with mangled buildings and pockmarked with craters, the ghostly evidence of the 928 nuclear tests the government conducted here from 1951 to 1992.

A concrete tower designed to hold the bomb for what would have been the 929th test still looms over the desert floor.

But "Icecap," the test of a bomb 10 times the size of the one that devastated the Japanese city of Hiroshima in 1945, was halted when the first President Bush placed a moratorium on U.S. nuclear tests in October 1992. The voluntary test ban came two years after Russia stopped its nuclear tests.

In the 11 years since, the United States has worked to halt the spread of nuclear weapons around the world and has often touted its own self-imposed restraint as a model for other nations.

But the Bush administration has now taken a decidedly different approach, one that has touched off a passionate debate in Washington. Last year the White House released, to little publicity, the 2002 Nuclear Posture Review. That policy paper embraces the use of nuclear weapons in a first strike and on the battlefield; it also says a return to nuclear testing may soon be necessary. It was coupled with a request for $70 million to study and develop new types of nuclear weapons and to shorten the time it would take to test them.

Last November, months before the invasion of Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld casually told reporters during a flight to Chile that military strategists were examining ways to neutralize Iraq's chemical and biological weapons. Among options studied were bunker-busting bombs that might have nuclear payloads.

Bunker-busters are heavy, missile-like bombs with hardened noses that penetrate the ground before exploding. No nuclear bunker-busters were employed in Iraq, although their use was considered there and in Afghanistan.

But the matter-of-fact way in which Rumsfeld suggested their possible role was a rare public sign of a growing effort by the administration to end the decade-long ban on developing and testing new nuclear bombs.

The main reason offered by the Pentagon is that "rogue" nations such as North Korea, Iran and Libya have gone deep, building elaborate bunkers hundreds of feet underground where their leaders and weapons could ride out an attack by the biggest conventional weapons U.S. forces could throw at them. U.S. officials also theorize that the vaporizing blast of a nuclear bomb might be the only way to safely destroy an enemy's chemical or biological weapons.

The Pentagon says developing new nuclear weapons makes sense in a dangerous world. "Without having the ability to hold those targets at risk, we essentially provide sanctuary," J.D. Crouch, an assistant secretary of Defense, told reporters earlier this year.

But others argue that moving toward a new generation of nuclear weapons, instead of improving conventional and non-nuclear ways to attack deep targets or chemical weapons sites, is fraught with danger.

"They are opening the door to a new era of a global nuclear arms competition," says Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association in Washington, D.C. "As we try to turn the tide of nuclear proliferation, the last thing we should suggest is that nuclear weapons have a role in the battlefield, and these weapons are battlefield weapons. This is a serious step in the wrong direction."

Kimball and others say research would eventually lead to testing. If Congress approves the White House requests, the first live tests of any new nuclear weapon could come as early as 2005.

Since 1992, weapons have been tested only in non-nuclear experiments 963 feet below the ground at the test site and in computer simulations here and in labs. Congress has mostly gone along with the new approach and has green-lighted most of the Bush administration proposals. This spring, the House of Representatives and the Senate agreed to spend $15.5 million to develop a nuclear bunker-buster called the "Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator." They also agreed to spend money to make changes to the Nevada Test Site, shortening to as little as 18-24 months the time it would take to resume nuclear tests. (It would take 24-36 months now.)

Congress is hung up on just one element of the Bush plan: a ban on researching and developing a nuclear bomb with a payload of 5 kilotons or less. (A kiloton is equivalent to the explosive force of 1,000 tons of TNT.) The Senate voted to end the ban, while the House voted to keep it; the two sides are expected to settle their differences in a House-Senate conference committee by August.

'10, 9, 8, 7 ...'

In the peak days of nuclear testing, more than 11,000 people worked here at the test site, an area larger than Rhode Island. It was a bustling place with a movie theater, newspaper, social activities, souvenir earrings in the shape of mushroom clouds and a clear sense of mission underscored by its own peculiar brand of humor. When protesters occasionally slipped through security and hid on the grounds to try to stop a test, officials would flush them out by turning on the PA system and faking a countdown ? "10, 9, 8, 7. .. " ? until the terrified trespassers jumped up and waved their arms to be hustled away.

Now the test ranges look like historical snapshots that have faded under the blistering Nevada sun. Lizards skitter about the debris that survived the numerous nuclear blasts. Coyotes give hard stares to the rare human interloper who interrupts their scavenging. Just over a hill is "Area 51," the ultra-secret Air Force test site that spawned rumors of strange new weapons and UFO visits.

Go north, and the land becomes a moonscape where craters large and small pinpoint the locations of dozens of underground tests. Turn south, and the road leads to "Doom City," where twisted steel girders, a shattered bank vault and the skeletal remains of buildings, cars and airplanes are testimony to the savage power of nuclear blasts.

"In the past, you could take (a nuclear weapon) off the shelf, take it to the Nevada Test Site and detonate it to see what you needed to see," says Kevin Rohrer, a spokesman for the National Nuclear Security Administration, which maintains the U.S. nuclear arsenal. "Now we have to do it with computers, and that doesn't tell you how the (nuclear) material ages, what physical properties have changed, what all you need to know."

The United States has signed three treaties to limit nuclear weapons testing: the 1963 Nuclear Test Ban treaty, which prohibited aboveground and underwater nuclear tests; the 1974 Threshold Treaty, which limited tests to less than 15 kilotons; and the 1996 Comprehensive Test Ban, which was to halt all testing. The Senate never ratified the 1996 treaty. But like other nations, the United States abides by treaties it has signed, even if they have not been ratified.

Bunkers and bugs

During his trip to Chile last fall, Rumsfeld questioned the reliability of aging and long-untested U.S. nuclear stockpiles. He suggested that the military might need to resume testing weapons to ensure they would work if deployed.

"If you are asking me (if I am going) to go to the president and recommend re-initiating nuclear testing, the answer is, no, I am not. Could I someday? Yes, I could, if they came to me and said, 'I'm worried about the reliability and safety and our weapons,' " Rumsfeld said then.

Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says nuclear weapons could be crucial tools for destroying chemical and biological weapons stocks without causing wider harm.

"In terms of anthrax, it's said that gamma rays can ... destroy the anthrax spores, which is something we need to look at," Myers told reporters at the Pentagon on May 20. "And in chemical weapons, of course, the heat (of a nuclear blast) can destroy the chemical compounds and make them not develop that plume that conventional weapons might do, that would then drift and perhaps bring others in harm's way."

Military planners also see nuclear bombs as vital for destroying deep bunkers, which they say have become rogue nations' tool of choice for putting their weapons beyond the reach of the world's mightiest military force. At the top of the bunker list is North Korea, according to an official at the Defense Intelligence Agency who asked not to be named. The North Koreans have developed advanced tunneling equipment and improved building materials that allow them to dig deeper, more quickly and more stealthily. They can make their bunkers stronger and put them in places where U.S. surveillance now has a tougher time finding them.

Neutralizing such bunkers is getting more difficult, according to a congressional agency.

"Special operations forces or precision-guided conventional bombs might defeat buried structures by attacking power supplies, ventilation systems and exits. The only way to destroy them is with a strong shock wave that travels through the ground," the Congressional Research Service said in a report in January.

The fallout problem

But some military experts argue that while underground bunkers are a legitimate concern, nuclear bunker-busters are not the answer.

"Even if there were a worldwide trend toward deeply buried bunkers, which is doubtful, alternative means exist for disabling the devices stored there," says Loren Thompson, a military analyst with The Lexington Institute, an Arlington, Va., public policy group. "These include conventional penetrating warheads with higher yields, microwave weapons that shut down bunker electronic systems and various special forces."

The limitations of physics mean even the best-designed bunker-busters can burrow only 30 to 50 feet before exploding. The explosion triggers shock waves that travel down toward buried targets and destroy them.

Critics say that means nuclear bunker-busters wouldn't be able to burrow deep enough before exploding to contain the fallout they would create. Sidney Drell, a Stanford University physicist, determined that destroying a target dug 1,000 feet into rock would require a nuclear weapon with a yield of 100 kilotons ? more than six times that of the Hiroshima bomb. The explosion of a nuclear bomb that big would launch enormous amounts of radioactive debris into the air and contaminate a huge area.

To contain fallout for a one-kiloton bomb, the warhead would have to penetrate an estimated 220 feet underground, many times the depth achievable by any current earth-penetrator warhead. The challenge scientists face is to find some way to get the bomb deep enough so that the explosion harms only what's underground ? not people on the surface.

Critics say the evidence against battlefield use of nuclear weapons is spread all over the Nevada Test Site. Most notable is Sedan Crater, 1,280 feet across and 320 feet deep. It is the largest crater at the test site, the result of a 104-kiloton device that was exploded 635 feet underground in 1962.

The idea was to see whether nuclear weapons could be used for such peaceful purposes as creating new harbors. The blast threw 12 million tons of radioactive earth 290 feet into the air, where it became airborne fallout. That was the end of the idea of digging harbors with nuclear bombs.

Skeptics of the Bush program ? and the ability of the new weapons to perform as advertised ? say they hope the debate over the weapons has not started too late.

"The public does not focus very much on national security and foreign policy," says John Isaacs, president of Council for a Livable World, a Washington, D.C.-based nuclear arms public policy group. "The administration has prevailed by telling Congress this is only research, not developing or testing or building. The next battles (in Congress) may not be as easy."

(entire article posted because USAToday.com requires registration)
 
paxetaurora said:
You wanna explain that one, Rono? :|
It would put the balance a littl more into the middle,...

Why should only one country have the right to make new nukes ?
 
Rono. You shock me. North Korea is terrorists, in the U.S. everything is under control. After all the U.S. never used its large arsenal. Who knows of those North Koreans?

To acquire some balance, I think Castro would be ok with a few nukes. Ehm, cigars.
 
I'm sure Kim would smile at Rono's and HIPHOPs responses.
 
Please use his full name when you?re referring to the Korean asshole. I got a friend named Kim and she might probably feel offended.

:evil:
 
Rono said:
It would put the balance a littl more into the middle,...


Right, so the US, for fear of retaliation, can be completely helpless to stop a Stalinist regime that has starved and murdered millions of its citizens over the last 50 years.
 
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speedracer said:


Right, so the US, for fear of retaliation, can be completely helpless to stop a Stalinist regime that has starved and murdered millions of its citizens over the last 50 years.

Considering America's existing nuclear arsenal, I don't think we have a problem with being able to take this nation out.

Melon
 
melon said:


Considering America's existing nuclear arsenal, I don't think we have a problem with being able to take this nation out.

Melon

Well, I'm worried that if North Korea did have nukes, and we didn't take out their entire arsenal on the first shot, Seoul would become a smoking hole in the ground.
 
*wonders if the point of the thread could be discussed*

So there are no concerns about a potential nuclear arms race? Everyone is cool with using nukes on the battlefield? Any thoughts on the subject at hand?
 
sulawesigirl4 said:
*wonders if the point of the thread could be discussed*

So there are no concerns about a potential nuclear arms race? Everyone is cool with using nukes on the battlefield? Any thoughts on the subject at hand?

Sorry, back to the subject. I'm just going to focus on North Korea here.

I'd guess that North Korea is already proceeding with their nuclear weapons programs as fast as they can, so the nuclear arms race is already in full swing on one side.

That being said, I don't know that the US would ever have a chance to use one of these new bunker-busting nukes. If I were North Korea, I wouldn't hide my WMDs in the wilderness out of range of civilization. I'd hide them in subbasement 1000 in a building next to a village or someplace like that. And of course it'd be an utter disaster if we dropped a bunker-busting nuke there.
 
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars North Korea is terrorists, ...Who knows of those North Koreans?



You think all North Koreans are terrorists?

Maybe you should be a bit more specific.

Anyway back to the subject:

As much as I am happy the nuclear race as we know it is over, I cannot say that we should totally rule out nuclear testing. Not testing per say for new weapons, but if we let our arsenal go for years without testing, it could be extremely dangerous, especially if for some terrible reason we had to use one of these weapons.

If testing did occur, however, there would be heavy resistance from almost every nation in the world. Thus, if it were to occur, I feel the government would literally have to invite representatives from almost every nation (especially those that would object) to the test.

They would, of course object to this as well, but my rationale is this:

We already have the weapons. It is dangerous to think that they may be used without any kind of mistake. It could be to everyone's advantage if the tests were witnessed by all nations, with the intent of actually reducing the weapons, but with the understanding that if a rogue nation, terrorist group etc were to use nuclear weapons against the US, we could retaliate.

Make any sense?
 
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ouizy, i see what you're saying, but to me it is just a dangerous spiral. we could retaliate. enact revenge. why does it always have to be about revenge? I guess it seems like common sense to me that if we have nuclear arms and demand that others not have them while we go around attacking countries pre-emptively, rogue nations are going to build up their arms with or without our approval. It's just a vicious cycle. We live in a world that is interconnected. If we decided to use nuclear arms we might feel better in the short run by enacting whatever revenge we felt necessary but it would only come back to haunt us, I think. :(
 
melon said:


Considering America's existing nuclear arsenal, I don't think we have a problem with being able to take this nation out.

Melon

Melon I'd love to hear some figures on this- of the info available to us, how large is America's existing nuke arsenal right now?

I think it'd help put even more into perspective how :censored: this is.

thanks.


I know the U.S. develops more & more destructive weapons daily. What's the need to take it further? I'm totally against the development of nuclear weapons. I feel any example the administration can give of being a threat to america is absolute bs- same as the bs they fed us regarding Iraq & their "WMD." What's the need to develop and test more weapons? Shouldn't we be promoting peace? Obviously we don't do that blindly but participating in developing nuclear weapons doesn't read "peaceful" to me. Be prepared, fine. But I can't support being aggressive like this.
 
These smaller nuclear weapons are nothing new at all. Battlefield Nuclear weapons were first developed in the 1950s. The intent of the weapons the administration once researched and developed is to be able to destroy Bio/Chem/Nuclear weapons that may be hidden underground, without releasing their harmful effects on nearby civilians. The concern is that conventional weapons are not as effective at preventing Bio/Chem weapons from being released into the air, where a small nuclear weapon would be very effective at instantly burning them. The only problem is designing the nuclear weapon and the penetration device so that it can penetrate deep enough, so that no fall out would be created above ground.
 
sulawesigirl4 said:
ouizy, i see what you're saying, but to me it is just a dangerous spiral. we could retaliate. enact revenge. why does it always have to be about revenge? I guess it seems like common sense to me that if we have nuclear arms and demand that others not have them while we go around attacking countries pre-emptively, rogue nations are going to build up their arms with or without our approval. It's just a vicious cycle. We live in a world that is interconnected. If we decided to use nuclear arms we might feel better in the short run by enacting whatever revenge we felt necessary but it would only come back to haunt us, I think. :(

I don't think there's any point to developing new nukes for a second strike. If, heaven forfend, we or one of our allies were nuked, we already have enough weapons (nuclear and otherwise) to destroy our enemies once per day of the week and seven times on Saturday if that's what we want. (The incendiary bombs we dropped on Germany killed more people than the nukes we dropped on Japan during WWII, if I remember correctly.)

What does make sense is developing tactical nukes for busting a bunker or vaporizing an enemy's WMD stocks. (At least, it doesn't sound completely implausible, though we'd have to make sure that the fallout could be contained. And if the bunkers happen to lie underneath populated areas, then the bunker-busting nukes couldn't be used at all.)

Anyway, my point is that I think there are plausible reasons for developing new nukes. It's not being done out of bloodlust, as some here seem to think.
 
oliveu2cm said:


I know the U.S. develops more & more destructive weapons daily. What's the need to take it further? I'm totally against the development of nuclear weapons. I feel any example the administration can give of being a threat to america is absolute bs- same as the bs they fed us regarding Iraq & their "WMD."


The older generation in South Korea (the ones who actually have firsthand experience with the Stalinist regime in North Korea) seems to think that North Korea is a threat to them, even if those idealistic young'uns currently running the government don't think so.
 
speedracer said:
Well, I'm worried that if North Korea did have nukes, and we didn't take out their entire arsenal on the first shot, Seoul would become a smoking hole in the ground.

So could the U.S.

I'm with oliveu2cm on this one. I really don't think we need to be blowing more money on building more nukes, most of which will just sit there and never, ever be used.

Our money should be going toward other things, more important things.

Angela
 
Moonlit_Angel said:


So could the U.S.

I thought I had made it abundantly clear that I was talking about using nukes as a tactical defensive first strike, i.e. for the express and sole purpose of taking out an opponent's WMDs.


I'm with oliveu2cm on this one. I really don't think we need to be blowing more money on building more nukes, most of which will just sit there and never, ever be used.

Remember, we learn kara-te so that we never need use it.
 
speedracer said:
I thought I had made it abundantly clear that I was talking about using nukes as a tactical defensive first strike, i.e. for the express and sole purpose of taking out an opponent's WMDs.

Sorry. My mistake.

Originally posted by speedracer
Remember, we learn kara-te so that we never need use it.

The difference there is that if you personally choose to take karate, you're using your money on something you want, so it doesn't feel quite like a waste.

When it comes to using money for an entire country, I just feel using it to build nukes that won't be used, instead of using it to benefit many various things that this country will definitely use, is a waste.

Angela
 
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