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Old 07-04-2007, 09:50 AM   #141
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I think most people agreed (even ones on the right) that he had no viable appeal, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he was likely going to be acquitted in the longterm.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:54 AM   #142
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Agreed Anitram. I thought the appeal process was not played out yet. You're correct.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:58 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No, my point was if you were in here often even just reading, I probably would have noticed. Maybe you have read a few threads, so what. You can't sum up a whole forum, especially when not paticipating.

I saw not one double standard. I saw people trying to compare pardons of a past presidency with a commutation of a current president. I saw people who jumped all over perjury when it was Clinton and write it off when it was a Republican. Then I saw people who objected to the severity of the sentence, when it was from a Bush appointed judge...

Show me the double standards, I'm very curious.
The fact that your monitoring failed to make note of everyone who's in a given forum at any given time is hardly surprising. The fact that you'd use your monitoring as some kind of logical argument behind which you'd stand to draw some kind of conclusion is laughable.

Almost every thread about Gays or Muslims for example turns into a Christian bashing thread, and no I'm not a christian, but an avowed atheist. So, when an anti-bush topic gets the "but Clinton is worse" responses it's supposedly getting off topic and we need to have the thread focus ONLY on Bush ? Well, that's hypocritical at best. But that's how it works here. And the times I've been reading posts here (apparently not under your keen and ever watchful eye) have been enough to tell me that. Just doing a quick scan of some earlier showed that you in particular are usually one of th efirst to change the topic in that manner. Now I see why you're upset about having the hypocrisy pointed out. Have a great 4th of July. In case you're wondering, I'll be logging out and won't be back until tomorrow. No need to keep monitoring !
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:23 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
They didn't order the leak. One Sunday morning, an op-ed appears in the paper from a former diplomat.

The white house assembled a rebuttal, and in the process disclosed that this former diplomat was sent by his wife (or his wife's boss). His wife happened to work at the CIA. Very strange. When everyone went to investigate, including Novak, they printed what they found out.

Scooter's account went against others. Therefore, he lied, therefore, 3 years prison.
here's what i know:
Libby 's charge of obstruction of justice comes from his refusal to answer certain questions. He refused to answer these because he is covering up Cheney's involvement with this.

Cheney ordered Libby to leak info to Miller after he had read Joe Wilson's op-ed. So then, Libby leaked Plame's identity and the CIA report on Wilson's trip.

So now, Bush commuted Libby so that he could maintain his 5th amendment rights, which would not be possible had be been pardoned. If he were pardoned, then he'd have to speak up.

Bush is only saying that he is ruling out a pardon just to cover his ass and not make it look so obvious. Except, to most of us, it is pretty transparent what is going on.
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:36 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by hawkman


The fact that your monitoring failed to make note of everyone who's in a given forum at any given time is hardly surprising. The fact that you'd use your monitoring as some kind of logical argument behind which you'd stand to draw some kind of conclusion is laughable.
I never claimed to be monitoring, get off it. Merely a, "I've never seen you hear before", as a regular would say to a new member. That's it, get over it.

Quote:
Originally posted by hawkman

Almost every thread about Gays or Muslims for example turns into a Christian bashing thread, and no I'm not a christian, but an avowed atheist. So, when an anti-bush topic gets the "but Clinton is worse" responses it's supposedly getting off topic and we need to have the thread focus ONLY on Bush ? Well, that's hypocritical at best. But that's how it works here. And the times I've been reading posts here (apparently not under your keen and ever watchful eye) have been enough to tell me that. Just doing a quick scan of some earlier showed that you in particular are usually one of th efirst to change the topic in that manner. Now I see why you're upset about having the hypocrisy pointed out. Have a great 4th of July. In case you're wondering, I'll be logging out and won't be back until tomorrow. No need to keep monitoring !
So wait, in your keen observations you say that I in paticular turn threads into "Christian bashing" threads? Very interesting...

Once again, the subject at hand, address the subjects I brought up in my previous post and show me the double standards.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:06 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
this makes me cry. it's not funny. it's tragic. anyone who supports the republican party is an absolute moron. anyone who cannot see the error in this commuting is either intellectually challenged, or brainwashed. diamond, the instances you brought up are erronous on their own. there is no legal relationship here. you don't have a solid grasp of law and your constitution, it seems. that's ok, though. just don't be foolish in your support of this.


i've not read past page 1. it's too infuriating.
while i may not agree w/ scooter libby and don't really care about politics, its kind of ironic that this one commuting is drawing so much skepticism, when currently bush is working towards pardoning 12 million people here. i say he has every right to, and that liberals should lay off his back for he is working against his party's conservative base currently to be partisan.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:09 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by hawkman
Almost every thread about Gays or Muslims for example turns into a Christian bashing thread
Usually, that's because every thread about gays turns into a gay-bashing thread (see diamond's latest nonsense thread, for instance).
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:13 PM   #148
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Originally posted by Ormus


Usually, that's because every thread about gays turns into a gay-bashing thread (see diamond's latest nonsense thread, for instance).
well, people have to use racial and sexuality slurs when they are unable to think of an intellectual response to a rebuttal
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:17 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


and that liberals should lay off his back for he is working against his party's conservative base currently to be partisan.
What does this have to do with anything?
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:19 PM   #150
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why do you not quote my whole statements. stop putting little sentences of it and read the whole thing, thank you.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:20 PM   #151
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From the L.A. Times today

Libby's sentence not unusually long

Though Bush calls the 30-month prison term 'excessive,' records show defendants convicted of similar crimes served jail time.
By Richard B. Schmitt and David G. Savage, Times Staff Writers
July 4, 2007


WASHINGTON — In commuting the sentence of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, President Bush said that the former vice presidential aide had suffered enough and that the 30-month prison term ordered up by a federal judge was "excessive."

But records show that the Justice Department under the Bush administration frequently has sought sentences that are as long, or longer, in cases similar to Libby's. Three-fourths of the 198 defendants sentenced in federal court last year for obstruction of justice — one of four crimes Libby was found guilty of in March — got some prison time. According to federal data, the average sentence defendants received for that charge alone was 70 months.

Just last week, the Supreme Court upheld a 33-month prison sentence for a decorated Army veteran who was convicted of lying to a federal agent about buying a machine gun. The veteran had a record of public service — fighting in Vietnam and the Gulf War — and no criminal record. But Justice Department lawyers argued his prison term should stand because it fit within the federal sentencing guidelines.

That Bush chose to make an exception for a political ally is galling to many career Justice Department prosecutors and other legal experts. Federal prosecutors said Tuesday the action would make it harder for them to persuade judges to deliver appropriate sentences.

The critics included some Republicans who said Bush's decision did not square with an administration that had been ardently pro law-and-order. "It denigrates the significance of perjury prosecutions," John S. Martin Jr., a former U.S. attorney and federal judge in New York, said of the commutation.

On Tuesday, Bush, speaking to reporters after visiting with wounded military personnel at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, refused to rule out the possibility that he might later grant Libby a full pardon. That would wipe out the felony conviction and allow Libby to retain his law license.

"As to the future, I rule nothing in or nothing out," Bush said — his first public comments on the case since announcing the commutation late Monday.

Sentencing experts said Bush's action appeared to be without recent precedent. They could not recall another case in which someone sentenced to prison had received a presidential commutation without having served any part of that sentence. Presidents have customarily commuted sentences only when someone has served substantial time.

"We can't find any cases, certainly in the last half century, where the president commuted a sentence before it had even started to be served," said Margaret Colgate Love, a former pardon attorney at the Justice Department. "This is really, really unusual."

Said Ellen S. Podgor, a professor at Stetson University law school: "This is a classic case of executive activism as opposed to judicial activism."


rest of article: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...adlines-nation
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:21 PM   #152
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I'm too lazy to search through the pages of the thread...but did anyone catch Keith Olbermann's Special Comment last night? Very good.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:21 PM   #153
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argument: Bush is currently working on pardoning 12 million people here.
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:24 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx
why do you not quote my whole statements. stop putting little sentences of it and read the whole thing, thank you.
Ok, even with the rest of the comment there, what does that mean?
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:25 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Ok, even with the rest of the comment there, what does that mean?
that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:28 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
Because they're hypocrites?

dbs
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:29 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


that we are making a big deal over are a commutal, yet he is trying to pardon 12 million people and that is not garnering anyone's attention?
I don't think there are small things when it comes to right and wrong.

Ok, I'll bite, what 12 million are you talking about?
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:35 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Ok, I'll bite, what 12 million are you talking about?
If I had to venture a guess, he's referring to 12 million illegal immigrants regarding "immigration reform."
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:38 PM   #159
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Originally posted by Ormus


If I had to venture a guess, he's referring to 12 million illegal immigrants regarding "immigration reform."
Ok, I gotcha.

to the comparison...
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Old 07-04-2007, 02:47 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Ok, I gotcha.

to the comparison...
roll your eyes, but a great argument none the less
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