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Old 07-09-2007, 07:06 AM   #441
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Ah I'd forgotten that, Steinbrenner indeed...a dark day for sure. And I think Don King got pardoned on a MURDER conviction by the at-the-time governor (Ohio I think?).

You know, I hadn't looked at this thread in 3 days and amazingly enough it actually managed to go downhill I think my favorite is "Bush wasn't involved in the cover-up, other than the commutal". Great. He's not involved in Iraq either, except for that lil' ol' war thingy. Or, to bring it back to Clinton because everyone's had a great time bringing his name up in this one...Clinton wasn't involved with that BJ either, except for the getting his d...never mind.

Unbelievable.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:18 PM   #442
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it's so good to discover that Bush, our Christian President, has finally discovered mercy and compassion!

he didn't have any as governor of Texas:

[q]In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.[/q]
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:52 PM   #443
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I still don't understand why a president has this right to commute and pardon people...it is like a big 'fuck you' to the court system and the rule of law. Hmm I wonder if the pm of the UK has any similar rights....it just seems a completely daft rule.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:47 PM   #444
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This is the exact reason why I support our(UK, Canada, Oz, NZ) constitutional monarchy system.

Our shared Queen has power, but doesn't use it. The government(PM) uses the power but doesn't hold it. Our head of state and head of government are 2 different people. Democracy working at it's best. This could be another topic though.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:51 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slipstream
This is the exact reason why I support our(UK, Canada, Oz, NZ) constitutional monarchy system.

Our shared Queen has power, but doesn't use it. The government(PM) uses the power but doesn't hold it. Our head of state and head of government are 2 different people. Democracy working at it's best. This could be another topic though.
So you are saying that our democracy doesn't work? I find it to be the best in the world regarding checks and balances. The President has some power, Congress has some, and the Judicial Branch has some. They all even out.

This ploy by Congress, regarding today's actions, is merely a way for them to get the pressure off themselves, for they have been able to do nothing for their first year in office. In return, they try to keep the heat up on Bush to offset their lack of victories in Capitol Hill.

Our democracy is still the finest ever.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:58 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx

The President has some power, Congress has some, and the Judicial Branch has some. They all even out.



the current administration isn't terribly fond of the division of powers or checks and balances, especially our vice president. after all, it gets in his way of adequately defending the country as he and he alone sees fit, thusly, we've seen the greatest expansion of executive powers -- all justified by the purposefuly vague "war" on terror -- in all of our lifetimes, and perhaps since the civil war.


Quote:
Our democracy is still the finest ever.

i might have agreed with you in 1999. but no one can reasonably say that 2001-2009 were banner years in the history of American democracy.

no one.
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:58 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT
I still don't understand why a president has this right to commute and pardon people...it is like a big 'fuck you' to the court system and the rule of law. Hmm I wonder if the pm of the UK has any similar rights....it just seems a completely daft rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:05 PM   #448
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struckpx -- "So you are saying that our democracy doesn't work?"

I never said your democracy doesn't work. I said, this current pardon issue with Libby is why I prefer our constitutional monarchy system over the US system.

The example being, our Queen can only grant pardons on advice of the gov't. Pardoning power in the US is granted to the President.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:16 PM   #449
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Originally posted by Slipstream
struckpx -- "So you are saying that our democracy doesn't work?"

I never said your democracy doesn't work. I said, this current pardon issue with Libby is why I prefer our constitutional monarchy system over the US system.

The example being, our Queen can only grant pardons on advice of the gov't. Pardoning power in the US is granted to the President.
k. sorry about the confusion.

i just don't want to make it seem that our president has dictative powers, because that is far from the truth. almost every power he has can be overruled in some way.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:20 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


...regarding checks and balances. ... They all even out.
Just not in this case.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:24 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx

Our democracy is still the finest ever.
Do you actually know anything substantial about the other forms of democracy?

I absolutely prefer ours and I'll tell you why. When our Prime Minister sucks ass or is seen as a thug, we hold a no confidence vote and boot his ass out of office. Our elections last 5 weeks and not 3 years and are publicly funded so that we're not throwing out ridiculous amounts of money on stupidities. Our Supreme Court is not politicized like yours, and although certain justices certainly lean one way or another on issues, it is not polarized like the SCOTUS, which has frankly become a complete joke.

There are things wrong with it as well (a useless Senate is one), but overall I believe it's better.

If Bush was the PM, he'd have been gone eons ago.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:33 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


k. sorry about the confusion.

i just don't want to make it seem that our president has dictative powers, because that is far from the truth. almost every power he has can be overruled in some way.
Sorry mate, but the President in this case has absolute power -

In the United States, the pardon power for Federal crimes is granted to the President by the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2, which states that the President:

shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

The Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites and amnesties.[1] All federal pardon petitions are addressed to the President, who grants or denies the request.


Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx

Our democracy is still the finest ever. [/B]
Everyone can debate what they think is a better system. But since this thread is about Bush's power to pardon Libby and then rebutting to your statement that your democracy is the finest ever, it would only be fair to point out the US Electoral College.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:46 PM   #453
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Originally posted by Slipstream


Sorry mate, but the President in this case has absolute power -

In the United States, the pardon power for Federal crimes is granted to the President by the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2, which states that the President:

shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

The Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites and amnesties.[1] All federal pardon petitions are addressed to the President, who grants or denies the request.




Everyone can debate what they think is a better system. But since this thread is about Bush's power to pardon Libby and then rebutting to your statement that your democracy is the finest ever, it would only be fair to point out the US Electoral College.
Enough w/ the hate America on this forum. Jesus Christ.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:47 PM   #454
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I think the hate is directed towards those in power than the American system itself.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:48 PM   #455
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Where was the hate? They quoted the Constitution...

Are you drinking?
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:51 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


Enough w/ the hate America on this forum. Jesus Christ.
I'm beginning to believe that your reading comprehension is non-existent. There is really no other explanation for how you reached this conclusion based on the above post.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:52 PM   #457
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^^Precisely.

The topic of this thread is open for discussion and as far as I'm concerned, questioning the power of the President is open for debate. Why not?

I've certainly not demonstrated any hatred for the US...lol.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:57 PM   #458
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Where was the hate? They quoted the Constitution...

Are you drinking?
that wasn't targeted towards that direct poster. i was going to say something but got so pissed off that i typed that and forgot to delete the quote. this forum is so anti-america though it is really bugging me. every thread i read is about how america is fucking the world some way, doing this bad or that bad. well, ya know, you give some you lose some. let's talk about the other million things that we do do that are good. like the billions of dollars we donate to africa regarding aids. yes it is not enough, but we give huge amounts of money that we aren't required too. what about the other stories, such as the north korean missile crisis which has been averted, diplomacy talks with china, vladimir putin recently visiting president bush and becoming better friends. what about these stories? instead you guys discuss a libby commutal?

please. there is more to this world than that. and i am just fed up w/ the anti-american sentiment in here. if it was israel, it would be acceptable, but we are not the devils. we do not wake up each day wanting to take over the world. president bush does not do that either. he is currently in a bad situation w/ people around him that have screwed him. he has been forced to make tough decisions which i am sure hurt him deeply.

i just hear complaining in the forum. can we at least have one thread that has a positive outlook on the world. everything seems to go negative. just an idea.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #459
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I do agree that having a poor cabinet does hurt the overall administration, but that's a given. Under what circumstances would you stop justifying Bush's actions and stop supporting him?
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:04 PM   #460
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


this forum is so anti-america though it is really bugging me.
Yeah, I've seen you call a few people in here anti-american already, none were justified.

I've seen you accuse people of being Saddam supporters, none were justified.

I've seen you call people idiots, none were justified.

So sorry if you think anything but your beliefs to be anti-america, but I love this country, I may not like some of it's leaders, I may not always like some of it's actions, but I love this country.

You should take a step back and really look at what you are accusing and attacking people in here of...
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