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Old 07-04-2007, 09:18 PM   #221
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Originally posted by struckpx


Come on:

Any president would have done this if they were put in the same situation, regardless of political party affiliation.

It is still on appeal, therefore we can not debate the finality of his tenure in jail.
1. Diemen covered it already, but you have to be very corrupt, very out of the loop, or very stupid to get into this situation.

2. I never brought up political party affiliation in my post. The issue has only been brought up by those attempting to bring Clinton into the argument.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:20 PM   #222
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You honestly believe he is going to pay that $250,000 fine? Fred Thompson and Mary Matalin are included in Libby's defense fund. They are raising the money for this fine. Trust me, Libby himself will NOT be paying that money.

And even given what you're writing, I honestly don't understand your connection to make this a partisan issue. It is not partisan, it is corruption. Libby is lying to cover up Cheney's dirty hands, and Bush is making sure that it stays that way by keeping him out of jail and without a pardon.

I think by reducing this to a partisan issue you are:
1) generalizing people and
B) ignoring the bigger, and scarier picture here.

our administration has dirty hands. and right now it is so transparent. i'm still surprised by the people that can't see that. it is NOTHING to do with party affiliation. this is about a corrupt administration that is getting away with doing whatever they please and doing things contrary to international and domestic law.
well, that is besides the point. i don't care who pays it, he is still being sentenced to pay a fine, is he not? that is punishment. in the real world, if anyone could get money to pay fines, we would do the same.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:22 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


well, that is besides the point. i don't care who pays it, he is still being sentenced to pay a fine, is he not? that is punishment. in the real world, if anyone could get money to pay fines, we would do the same.
it is not beside the point. it is a BIG point. didn't you just say he has to pay punishment for his crimes? he isn't going to pay a cent! that is a mere microcosm of all the corruption and most importantly cover upsurrounding this.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:22 PM   #224
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Originally posted by struckpx
well, re-reading your comment there unico, he retains his rights, but he also has to pay punishment for much of the crimes. so, its a 50-50, he is not getting off the hook, and he is not going to jail. so it works out to be partisan. conservatives saw a man who had served for 30+ years in government and our country w/ dignity, liberals saw someone who broke the law and deserved no mercy, regardless of his deeds to society.

so, in the end it saves taxpayer money, and keeps the country overall calm. its kind of being way overblown. there are other people in the case who should be investigated, not libby. he is the middle man. he is the kid at school selling the dime sack instead of the dealer. get what i am saying?
It has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative. I don't know why this seems to be an issue with you.

The bottom line is this: in any perjury case, prison terms are mandatory. He is getting off the hook because he is not serving mandatory sentencing for his crime. Why is that? Because the president is giving him a free pass out.

And to say it saves taxpayers money is ridiculous, because it opens the gate for anyone to be let off the hook "to save taxpayers money."

And do you know why no one else can be investigated in this case? Because Libby was commuted by the President and doesn't have to speak! If this was a pardon, then he must talk and we get to investigate them. That's why this is a big deal. It's not as much about Libby, it's that it's a clear cover up, and Bush lets Libby off because it's not his fault. He took orders.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:23 PM   #225
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


It has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative. I don't know why this seems to be an issue with you.

The bottom line is this: in any perjury case, prison terms are mandatory. He is getting off the hook because he is not serving mandatory sentencing for his crime. Why is that? Because the president is giving him a free pass out.

And to say it saves taxpayers money is ridiculous, because it opens the gate for anyone to be let off the hook "to save taxpayers money."

And do you know why no one else can be investigated in this case? Because Libby was commuted by the President and doesn't have to speak! If this was a pardon, then he must talk and we get to investigate them. That's why this is a big deal. It's not as much about Libby, it's that it's a clear cover up, and Bush lets Libby off because it's not his fault. He took orders.
political prejudice has everything to do w/ it.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:24 PM   #226
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political prejudice has everything to do w/ it.


Did you even read the rest of my post?
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:26 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


political prejudice has everything to do w/ it.
are you not at all acknowledging the corruption? the COVER UP?
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:28 PM   #228
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Originally posted by phillyfan26




Did you even read the rest of my post?
yes, that is Washington. Everything is hardball politically motivated. All of your statements are correct, but so are the other facts: he served the country for 30+ years, was the middle man, was denied the right to submit evidence by the prosecutor, etc. etc.

the list and accusations can go on and on. ultimately, he would not have gone to jail either way. this case would have gone to the supreme court where it would have been overturned, and that is just a waste of our money. we have larger issues at hand to worry about.

he lied, we all do. don't you ever lie for your good friends? while he is in the white house and that is wrong, another former president did the exact same thing.

everything is politically motivated. all of this media coverage is politically motivated.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:33 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


the list and accusations can go on and on. ultimately, he would not have gone to jail either way. this case would have gone to the supreme court where it would have been overturned, and that is just a waste of our money. we have larger issues at hand to worry about.
What are you talking about? I don't mean to be rude, but this is just hogwash. On what legal grounds was the SCOTUS going to overrule the trial judge? Every legal analyst and expert I heard speak about this agreed that he had no viable appeal. Where are you getting this idea that it would have been overturned? I honestly want to know, because I think it's a ridiculous assertion based on the case.

Bush knew it wasn't going to be overturned on appeal and acted before Libby was sent to jail to wait it out.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:34 PM   #230
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Originally posted by struckpx


yes, that is Washington. Everything is hardball politically motivated. All of your statements are correct, but so are the other facts: he served the country for 30+ years, was the middle man, was denied the right to submit evidence by the prosecutor, etc. etc.

the list and accusations can go on and on. ultimately, he would not have gone to jail either way. this case would have gone to the supreme court where it would have been overturned, and that is just a waste of our money. we have larger issues at hand to worry about.

he lied, we all do. don't you ever lie for your good friends? while he is in the white house and that is wrong, another former president did the exact same thing.

everything is politically motivated. all of this media coverage is politically motivated.


Lying for my friends and PERJURY are two very, very different things. To compare the two is bullshit. Being under oath is not equivalent to high school secret keeping.

His appeal had been turned down you know. Bush commuted him within hours of his appeal being turned down.

The bottom line is that this had nothing to do with republican vs. democrat. This is a cover-up. That is why people are angry. It's not anger of partisan issues. It's anger over a corrupt administration.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:35 PM   #231
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what's done is done.

let's move on to something more meaningful.

who wants to start a new thread for:

Palestinian Liberation?
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:40 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


yes, that is Washington. Everything is hardball politically motivated. All of your statements are correct, but so are the other facts: he served the country for 30+ years, was the middle man, was denied the right to submit evidence by the prosecutor, etc. etc.

the list and accusations can go on and on. ultimately, he would not have gone to jail either way. this case would have gone to the supreme court where it would have been overturned, and that is just a waste of our money. we have larger issues at hand to worry about.

he lied, we all do. don't you ever lie for your good friends? while he is in the white house and that is wrong, another former president did the exact same thing.

everything is politically motivated. all of this media coverage is politically motivated.
uh, we do have something called the LAW, which this administration considers themselves to be above. that ain't bipartisan politics, that is CORRUPTION. how would it have gone to the supreme court? the commute came just after the court of appeals rejected his appeal to avoid jail time while he was appealing his conviction.

and this is bigger than just lying. he was charged with OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.

i mean this with all due respect, but i think there are elements of this case that you are overlooking, or are misinformed about, and you do so consciously by confining it to a "partisan" issue.

you should know that some republicans wanted bush to fully pardon Libby, because they too are blinded by the corruption and not realize that the pardon would mean Libby would have to spill the beans.

this is a cover up. i can't say that enough. i don't understand why you don't acknowledge that.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:43 PM   #233
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Originally posted by struckpx
what's done is done.

let's move on to something more meaningful.

who wants to start a new thread for:

Palestinian Liberation?
Uh, this thread is for discussin this issue, so I imagine that we're not suddenly going to move on.

Although I am amused that you have completely stopped debating in the middle of a debate. That may be unprecedented for FYM.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:44 PM   #234
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Originally posted by struckpx
what's done is done.

let's move on to something more meaningful.

who wants to start a new thread for:

Palestinian Liberation?

so not only do you not acknowledge corruption, but you also don't believe in accountablity either? how can there ever be any progress if we don't hold the responsible people accountable?
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:50 PM   #235
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so not only do you not acknowledge corruption, but you also don't believe in accountablity either? how can there ever be any progress if we don't hold the responsible people accountable?
b/c what is us complaining on a U2 forum going to do? there are bigger problems in the world than figuring out whether or not scooter libby sits in jail for a year. there are murderers, stalkers, rapers, out there currently who should be garnering this type of attention to be captured, not scooter. there are wars going on, people trying to blow up buildings w/ cars, etc. etc. lets put our thoughts and actions towards those, instead of one guy who really didn't and most likely won't have any detrimental damage to us individually
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:51 PM   #236
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b/c what is us complaining on a U2 forum going to do? there are bigger problems in the world than figuring out whether or not scooter libby sits in jail for a year. there are murderers, stalkers, rapers, out there currently who should be garnering this type of attention to be captured, not scooter. there are wars going on, people trying to blow up buildings w/ cars, etc. etc. lets put our thoughts and actions towards those, instead of one guy who really didn't and most likely won't have any detrimental damage to us individually
But this isn't one guy! It's an entire government!
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:52 PM   #237
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But this isn't one guy! It's an entire government!
who ultimately will be clean as a whistle now.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:52 PM   #238
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then why are you here? do you understand that the purpose of Free Your Mind is to discuss issues?

i like how you turn your head and change the topic instead of addressing my questions. thanks.

and i'm glad your using your thoughts and actions toward these greater causes by having an internet radio show. you're bringing true progress to the world as we fluff around on this forum about this inconsequential topic.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:54 PM   #239
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who ultimately will be clean as a whistle now.
?

I don't understand what you mean.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:54 PM   #240
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Originally posted by struckpx
what's done is done.

let's move on to something more meaningful.

What if people had this attitude towards your callousedheart thread?

Just said, oh well, what's done is done, that's your life, no reason to change...
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