Bono's repetitious rap on Conan
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martha
Blue Crack Supplier
But Bono sure looked hot saying whatever it was he said. 
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
We can't help it. 
Did you folks see the NY Times today? Bono painted as a major example of the "hot new trend of the 'ubersexual' (ie, the "manly man." (metrosexuals are SO passe.) I died laughing. As if he is consciously trying to start a trend! And anyway, it's LARRY who is the "ubersexual", ha ha.
As to Bono's opinion of Iraq....has he ever come out and said, "I support the great job Bush is doing building the new nation of post-Saddam Iraq"? NO. As to your ref of his support...how he says in concert, night after night, "I just want to thank the men and women of the US armed forces"etc....I have seen the show 3 times now, and I wonder if anyone noticed when and how Bono says this. He always says it during the same part of the show....
..during Bullet The Blue Sky, specifically when the hanging screen is showing an image of a giant fighter plane. During this, Bono is wearing his "CoExiSt" bandanna down over his eyes like a blindfold, and making a pantomine of groping around blindly, trying to find his way. When you see this from the GA POV, it is very powerful. You can see the tension in his face. To the sides of the stage, blue colored smoke is spouting up from vents, exactly similar to the blue smoke that used to envelop the stage during the end of BBS from ZooTV. If you have read Bill Flanagan's book, you will know that that smoke in the show is symbolic of the signal flares and smoke soldiers used in Vietnam. Bono got this idea from the sorely missed former chief of U2 tour security, Jerry Mele, a Vietnam vet. We didn't see it during Zooropa or Popmart of Elevation, but Bono wanted it back for this tour.
It always amazes me that people cannot or WILL not see, this, the irony of Bono statement in "support" of the troops. He says nothing, thus, openly FOR anything at all. IN a show that is a painstakingly earnest return to '80's politicsm, this is the only glaring IRONIC statement and segment of the show. If you are a longtime fan, you will have trained yourself to be aware of and see little things like this in lyrics or performance...they are clearly meant to be "they who have ears to hear, let them hear" things. At the time, you fele you are crazy for "reading into things" too much, but them you turn around and read an interview 2 yrs later where Bono confirms your very suspicions. The band likes to drop these things in here and there, it is part of their multilayered craft. But he'll never admit it AT THE TIME. And for the Irish, such symbolism is VERY important..symbolism that often goes over Americans' heads, we being an impetuous and plainspoken people with little time or inclanation for such subtleties. It's like people thinking Springsteen's "Born In The USA" is a patritoc song. They clearly never heard the lyrics..or disregarded them. Bono is clearly a master a the fine art of saying things without actually openly saying them.
Personally, for all he may say in public, I find it hard to beleive that Bono, the child of Irish history, growing up in a nation where British soldiers walked the streets even in Dublin trying to teach her wayward child "democracy" and good citizenship, could support the invasion of a country, just to teach it "democracy." He of all people knows what it is for a mother country to "nation build." He supported Afgahistan b/c we went there to find Bin Laden. I wonder of he supports what we are doing there now.
And before I start to rant, I'll get out of here....just saying that when it comes to Americam NOTHING the band says or does is ever balc and white. Excpet Bono's (and the band's) love of we the people.
As to Bono's opinion of Iraq....has he ever come out and said, "I support the great job Bush is doing building the new nation of post-Saddam Iraq"? NO. As to your ref of his support...how he says in concert, night after night, "I just want to thank the men and women of the US armed forces"etc....I have seen the show 3 times now, and I wonder if anyone noticed when and how Bono says this. He always says it during the same part of the show....
..during Bullet The Blue Sky, specifically when the hanging screen is showing an image of a giant fighter plane. During this, Bono is wearing his "CoExiSt" bandanna down over his eyes like a blindfold, and making a pantomine of groping around blindly, trying to find his way. When you see this from the GA POV, it is very powerful. You can see the tension in his face. To the sides of the stage, blue colored smoke is spouting up from vents, exactly similar to the blue smoke that used to envelop the stage during the end of BBS from ZooTV. If you have read Bill Flanagan's book, you will know that that smoke in the show is symbolic of the signal flares and smoke soldiers used in Vietnam. Bono got this idea from the sorely missed former chief of U2 tour security, Jerry Mele, a Vietnam vet. We didn't see it during Zooropa or Popmart of Elevation, but Bono wanted it back for this tour.
It always amazes me that people cannot or WILL not see, this, the irony of Bono statement in "support" of the troops. He says nothing, thus, openly FOR anything at all. IN a show that is a painstakingly earnest return to '80's politicsm, this is the only glaring IRONIC statement and segment of the show. If you are a longtime fan, you will have trained yourself to be aware of and see little things like this in lyrics or performance...they are clearly meant to be "they who have ears to hear, let them hear" things. At the time, you fele you are crazy for "reading into things" too much, but them you turn around and read an interview 2 yrs later where Bono confirms your very suspicions. The band likes to drop these things in here and there, it is part of their multilayered craft. But he'll never admit it AT THE TIME. And for the Irish, such symbolism is VERY important..symbolism that often goes over Americans' heads, we being an impetuous and plainspoken people with little time or inclanation for such subtleties. It's like people thinking Springsteen's "Born In The USA" is a patritoc song. They clearly never heard the lyrics..or disregarded them. Bono is clearly a master a the fine art of saying things without actually openly saying them.
Personally, for all he may say in public, I find it hard to beleive that Bono, the child of Irish history, growing up in a nation where British soldiers walked the streets even in Dublin trying to teach her wayward child "democracy" and good citizenship, could support the invasion of a country, just to teach it "democracy." He of all people knows what it is for a mother country to "nation build." He supported Afgahistan b/c we went there to find Bin Laden. I wonder of he supports what we are doing there now.
And before I start to rant, I'll get out of here....just saying that when it comes to Americam NOTHING the band says or does is ever balc and white. Excpet Bono's (and the band's) love of we the people.
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A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
If you stare close enough....
Okay, make fun of me, say I'm nuts. But hey, I've been a fan too long NOT to notice this stuff. I didn't go looking for it when I was a kid, but as I got older, and more aware...I'm sure nobody will back me up in here, but there might be other parts of this site where people are aware of the nuances of art. And it;s their art. It's the way this band works. Some things have chenged. But others have remained the same.
Headache in a Suitcase said:yea i really don't feel like reading all of this because i have to head back out to the garden in like 10 minutes, but frankly... if you're getting pissed off at bono for working/talking/praising bush and others on the right, you're really missing the whole damn point, aren't you?
to accomplish what bono wants to accomplish, he needs all parties working together as...... ONE.
pandering to the left and ignoring the right will accomplish nothing.
I agree with this statement, with the following addition:
Bono is Irish. He probably cares that Bush is Republican just as much as Americans care that Angela Merkel in Germany is part of the CDU. In other words, while these parties and ideologies are important to the citizens of each nation, it's really quite a meaningless distinction to outsiders. You just work diplomatically with whomever is in charge, regardless of the political party.
I do tend to believe that U2 is of a more leftist persuasion, in general, considering many of their current and past statements, but they're probably past their days where they'll refuse to work with anyone of right-wing leanings.
Melon
You're probably right, Melon. I just wonder though...if the current governor of Arizona passed a law banning state celebration of MLK's birthday, would they issue a strong satement of condemnation to be read at the show, and openly call for the governor's ouster? I have a horrible feeling they'd publicly sidestep the issue...IF said governor was someone like the "new and improved" Jesse Helms, who pledged to help on Africa.
Of course, a bunch of Irishmen havd no right to comment on this simple issue, but it wouldn't be so simple of they needed this guy's support. Would they be satisfied with a
yes, we'll promise to change the law" and that would be that. Friendship is nice, but anger sometimes is better.
Headache, you are a lucky so and so....you are at the show now as I type this. When you are on here later...let us know the setlist! I was there on Fri, in the Ga...2 rows from the tip, jumping over the tall guy in front of me, I could see ALL... Edge grinning sheepishly when he broke a string during "Fast Cars" ..which kicked MAJOR tush. *starts to bellydance..can't help it..*
Oh yeah..to make everyone's night..here is something for your edification:
http://www.msnbc.com/id/9600151/
whoops..try this:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9600151/
Of course, a bunch of Irishmen havd no right to comment on this simple issue, but it wouldn't be so simple of they needed this guy's support. Would they be satisfied with a
yes, we'll promise to change the law" and that would be that. Friendship is nice, but anger sometimes is better.
Headache, you are a lucky so and so....you are at the show now as I type this. When you are on here later...let us know the setlist! I was there on Fri, in the Ga...2 rows from the tip, jumping over the tall guy in front of me, I could see ALL... Edge grinning sheepishly when he broke a string during "Fast Cars" ..which kicked MAJOR tush. *starts to bellydance..can't help it..
*Oh yeah..to make everyone's night..here is something for your edification:
http://www.msnbc.com/id/9600151/
whoops..try this:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9600151/
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Earnie Shavers
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Teta040 said:
He has said (its in the Conversations book and I hope I paraphrase this correctly, I'm at work so can't look it up) that he -
- Doesn't agree with the invasion.
- Doesn't agree with the occupation and thinks it will only make matters worse.
- Doesn't agree with the idea that if Iraq becomes a stable democracy, that democracy will then flow through the Middle East.
- And regarded the Abu Ghraib stuff as one of the lowest points in US history.
I think he's right to work with Bush, not just shout at him. As long as he's smart enough not to be compromised, and smart enough to know the exact point where he's been screwed over (if it happens), then it's okay. Sure, hearing him talk about Jesse Helms makes you feel sick to the pit of your stomach, but he's a smart guy. I don't think he'd fuck it up.
For Honor
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Very interesting turn the thread has taken...
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Dreadsox said:
hehehe
LOL
.Good point raised in melon's post, too.
Also, uh...I agree with martha's post on this page, too...
.Okay! And now back to the discussion at hand
! Heh.Angela
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
Here's a nice postscript to this thread for some of you.
Tonight at Staples Center, as the band started Sunday Blooody Sunday, Bono shouted twice "America, this is your song now!" He said it again during the song.
Tonight at Staples Center, as the band started Sunday Blooody Sunday, Bono shouted twice "America, this is your song now!" He said it again during the song.
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
martha said:
Really? I'm more confused than ever.
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
No reason to be confused. The song, while perhaps not a rebel song, is clearly an anti-war song. And now it's ours. 
financeguy
ONE love, blood, life
martha said:No reason to be confused. The song, while perhaps not a rebel song, is clearly an anti-war song. And now it's ours.
Irish nationalists, rightly or wrongly, originally interpreted the song as being about Bloody Sunday, and as being a pro-nationalist song (I realise the lyrics are anti-war but these nuances don't come across in live concerts). In spite of Bono's anti-IRA rants during the late 1980's, some people in Ireland still think it is a pro-IRA song (I'm not joking, I've met a few who think this.)
With Bono's latest statements that you have reported, I feel there is a risk pro-Iraq war or pro-Bush people may well do something similar, i.e. interpret in a 'wrap the stars and stripes around me' sense, not as an anti-war statement.
That's why I'm in the 'confused' camp.
Although cynics might say that's what Bono does best - being all things to all people.
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martha
Blue Crack Supplier
financeguy said:
Only the thickest of the thick could possibly interpret it that way after seeing the concert.
a lot of you are just confusing this thing
Bono was great on Obrien saying ' You don't have to agree with everything to get with somebody, you just have to agree on one thing'
and thats fucking clear; he doesnt support the war, or Bushe's politics, but he recognizes the efforts in the poverty issue
thats it. end of thread
Bono was great on Obrien saying ' You don't have to agree with everything to get with somebody, you just have to agree on one thing'
and thats fucking clear; he doesnt support the war, or Bushe's politics, but he recognizes the efforts in the poverty issue
thats it. end of thread
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
Dreadsox said:
It's the context and the way he presents the song. It's clearly delivering an anti-war message. No more Irish flags and tears this tour.
If you need any further clarification, go reread the Rolling Stone interview.
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martha
Blue Crack Supplier
So it's possible to be both "anti-terrorist" and "anti-war"?
Good, because I've been trying to say that for what, 3, 4 years now?
Good, because I've been trying to say that for what, 3, 4 years now?
If anyone listened to all three of the podcasts from the Rolling Stone interview with Bono from last month, you will hear him clearly state in the third podcast about his disagreement with the Bush administration's war in Iraq.
Bono does not equivocate about this - he states this clearly.
So, who is trying to make Bono fit into their own viewpoints?
Not those of us who are anti-Iraq war. He is already one of us.
NO MORE....
Bono does not equivocate about this - he states this clearly.
So, who is trying to make Bono fit into their own viewpoints?
Not those of us who are anti-Iraq war. He is already one of us.
NO MORE....
Liesje
Blue Crack Addict
Jamila said:
So, who is trying to make Bono fit into their own viewpoints?
Not those of us who are anti-Iraq war. He is already one of us.
NO MORE....
Well, doesn't that make you special?
The thread is about what he said on Conan. Regardless of what he believes (which I don't think anyone on a message board can say for fact) or said elsewhere, it wasn't clear from the Conan interview how he feels about Bush and/or the war. What is clear is that he's obviously willing to go out on a limb by working with people that aren't "one of us" in order to move forward for a much greater purpose. That's all I need to know
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Then you haven't read the RS interview, the Sunday Times article, or listened to the podcasts.
And on Conan, since you want to discuss that, the tone and look he used when describing the "war on terror" was dismissive and ironic. Or did you see the show so you know that already?
Liesje
Blue Crack Addict
martha said:
I have seen the Conan show once or twice. It's not that I want to discuss it, it's the point of this thread. I'm not defending Bush or the war b/c personally I don't support either, but I really don't think that was the point of what Bono was saying on Conan. I think he was trying to make a point about world hunger/Africa/the ONE campaign, not trying to make point about disagreeing w/ Bush and the war.
I just was momentarily annoyed by Jamila's post b/c she seemed to be annoyed that pro-Bush/war people were trying to twist Bono's words to fit their purposes, but then she says Bono's "one of us", like she can use Bono to fit her purposes when in reality, what Bono was saying on Conan wasn't for the purpose of a pro/anti war debate.
VertigoGal
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Why does anyone honestly care what Bono thinks of the war on terror or the war in Iraq in general?
I know he means well, but this is the man who called Abu Gharib one of the "low points in the history of civilization" so I think he might be missing a sense of perspective at the current time.
I know he means well, but this is the man who called Abu Gharib one of the "low points in the history of civilization" so I think he might be missing a sense of perspective at the current time.
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Do not be annoyed...it happens all the time!
You said it much better than I could.
If you notice, I have never ever claimed that Bono was in support of the Iraq War. Funny, how in almost every one of these threads I somewhere seem to make a comment about how rediculous I think they are.
I am smart enough to know that Bono is against the torture that has been taking place. I also am smart enough to know that said torture is counter productive to fighting terrorism and most likely causes more terrorism to occur. I am also smart enough to know that the Sunday Bloody Sunday song is about terrorism and it is certainly not a pro terrorist song. There have been interviews in which Bono says he is NOT a pacifist.
What can I take from this. My take, Bono believes the best way to fight terrorism is to fight poverty. I agree with this position in most cases. Osama is not poor. Many of the 9/11 participants did not come from poor families. I think Abu G and even GITMO are absolutely contrary to the principals that Bono and U2 stand for, and that is what I get out of the concert. Their stand against terrorism, and against torture.
Bono may even be opposed to the Iraq War, my gut says he is. But I do not get that from the show.
As for people (Jamilla in particular since you responded the my comment) insinuating that I have tried to shape Bono in "my own image" find a place in here where I have ever taken a stand that Bono believes even remotely that the Iraq War was right and I will apologize.
As for Martha, I believe she heard what she heard at the concert. I respect the feeling she got from the show. I am sure she respects what I heard at the show I attended.
