Bono wants a United States of Africa...

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by hiphop

Unimaginable on another country? I don´t think so. Then why did the EU create an own army of 100,000 soldiers? Why are the bureaucrats from Brussels so eager to establish their own multi billion arms deals?

No, Vincent, declaring war is possible anytime with the criminals there. But of course, we call it humanitarian. We want to bring "peace" to our world, call it "interventions", just like the U.S. In the name of democracy we continue to steal the raw materials and resources from Africa!

France is heavily exporting arms. Beautiful Mme. Sarkozy is married to a butcher. Media loves them. Of course.. many Europeans are happy we haven´t seen a war, but I´ll tell you what, it´s not that far off. Ask your parents for a moment what has changed on the news, in the language, in our national/ militarist pride, even the wording has become more violent. Long term strategy my dear. Our leaders are working on making war socially acceptable.

Call me pessimistic, but the only reason we didn´t have a big war since WW II is that all our history is so ugly, bad, devastating, shocking and bloody that 2 generations learned something. The third generation forgets.. it makes a difference whether you have lost 60% of your friends and family (like our grandmothers and -fathers) OR if you only discussed the Nazis in school and at night you beat up punks with the gang.

I'm afraid it didn't come through: My point is, it is unimaginable that Germany and France, or Spain and Italy, or whichever two countries of the European Union plus Norway and Switzerland (well, they would be neutral anyways) declare war on each other today. What is in 20 years, no one knows, though I doubt that even then Europe will be in war with each other.

And well, I'm really not as pessimistic as you.

Exploitation of resources is a serious problem, and I would concur that European and other Western businesses are acting immorally, but nevertheless I don't see our countries preparing for attacking the world.
And as being one of the third generation, I see my generation as becoming more aware of how we treat the world and the "less fortunate", and becoming more willing to bring about a positive change.

But in the end it probably always comes down to how you look on things, and what you focus your attention on.

[JCOSTER]

Originally Posted by mama cass

this:

quote JCOSTER: "the name should be changed to something else that would not offend many people in the US."

(but the quote is possibly more arrogant than funny)

I am not saying that it will offend people in the US, but I can see based on people being intolerant of Bono and his efforts that some people would be.

I don't think my quote was arrogant nor am I.

[Zoots]

Originally Posted by JCOSTER

I don't think my quote was arrogant nor am I.

No but you're delusional though, calling a popular rock star as your beloved.

[U2Fanatic4ever]

^

[Purplereign]

Originally Posted by Zootlesque

No but you're delusional though, calling a popular rock star as your beloved.

ouch

[JCOSTER]

Originally Posted by Zootlesque

No but you're delusional though, calling a popular rock star as your beloved.

Coming from you I take that as a compliment.

[Zoots]

How is that a compliment? Anyway, good day to you! Hope you and Bono live happily ever after.

[bonocomet]

It's no big deal, she's using the term affectionately since she's been a Bono fan since day one, before they even visited the US. I don't think JC has any delusions about anything of that sort.

[yolland]

Yes, that was an unnecessary cheap shot and came across as rude.

[Varitek]

Originally Posted by anitram

So this UofAfrica idea strikes me as completely and utterly unworkable, regardless of how some people on the continent may feel. It isn't practical at this point, it isn't achievable, and frankly I don't think it's desirable either. Successful infrastructure, which is what Africa most importantly lacks, is built on a local level, and then expanded. The creation of an overseer bureaucracy would do absolutely nothing positive for the people on the ground.

While I agree that US-level integration is unworkable, unpractable, unachievable, and undesirable, and that EU-level integration is at the very least the first 3 of those as well, you are wrong about infrastructure. Regional integration (see: ECOWAS in West Africa) is really key for infrastructure development, because regional planning of rail and roads, regional sharing of power sources and costs, etc are both necessary to achieve Western-level development and more cost-effective. Furthermore, landlocked countries can develop all the roads/rail they want and it won't do them a spec of good if they still don't have coastal access.

[anitram]

Regional infrastructure is the desirable end result. But regional infrastructure has actually been failing increasingly since the 1960s because essentially what you are doing adding further layers of corruption on top of one another and then wondering why there is no positive effect.

Regional infrastructure on the border of Angola/Namibia is a good example. The unrest in Angola has made it completely unworkable, so that you're pretty much left with swamp land.

[JCOSTER]

Originally Posted by Zootlesque

How is that a compliment? Anyway, good day to you! Hope you and Bono live happily ever after.

I did consider you a friend here, and thought you knew me here too, that I was just kidding.....BUT, I guess I was totally wrong.


and thanks Bonocomet.

[Jeannieco]

Hey now don't pick on JC. She is one of the kindest people here.
We her.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by hiphop

Unimaginable on another country? I don´t think so. Then why did the EU create an own army of 100,000 soldiers? Why are the bureaucrats from Brussels so eager to establish their own multi billion arms deals?

No, Vincent, declaring war is possible anytime with the criminals there. But of course, we call it humanitarian. We want to bring "peace" to our world, call it "interventions", just like the U.S. In the name of democracy we continue to steal the raw materials and resources from Africa!

France is heavily exporting arms. Beautiful Mme. Sarkozy is married to a butcher. Media loves them. Of course.. many Europeans are happy we haven´t seen a war, but I´ll tell you what, it´s not that far off. Ask your parents for a moment what has changed on the news, in the language, in our national/ militarist pride, even the wording has become more violent. Long term strategy my dear. Our leaders are working on making war socially acceptable.

Call me pessimistic, but the only reason we didn´t have a big war since WW II is that all our history is so ugly, bad, devastating, shocking and bloody that 2 generations learned something. The third generation forgets.. it makes a difference whether you have lost 60% of your friends and family (like our grandmothers and -fathers) OR if you only discussed the Nazis in school and at night you beat up punks with the gang.

Interesting post.

As you may be aware, there is no Lisbon treaty referendum in most European countries (best not give ordinary voters the right to vote on this treaty, after all, they may make a mistake and come up with the wrong answer.)

The Eurofederalists are an anti-democratic, self-serving, corrupt elite.

But, when Margaret Thatcher pointed this out twenty years ago, left wingers villified her. It's probably why, ultimately, her political career was ended.

Just sayin'.

[JCOSTER]

Originally Posted by Jeannieco

Hey now don't pick on JC. She is one of the kindest people here.
We her.

Thank U.

[DrTeeth]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Interesting post.

As you may be aware, there is no Lisbon treaty referendum in most European countries (best not give ordinary voters the right to vote on this treaty, after all, they may make a mistake and come up with the wrong answer.)

And thank God for that. I remember the Dutch referendum for the EU constitution and the events leading up to it. The debates were of such a low standard that I had to take a bathroom break every ten minutes. Most people didn't seem to have a clue what was actually in the document.

Treaties like this are too complicated to have a simple yes or no vote on anyway. Representative democracy ftw!

Then again, I'm a big EU fan.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by DrTeeth

And thank God for that. I remember the Dutch referendum for the EU constitution and the events leading up to it. The debates were of such a low standard that I had to take a bathroom break every ten minutes. Most people didn't seem to have a clue what was actually in the document.

Treaties like this are too complicated to have a simple yes or no vote on anyway. Representative democracy ftw!

Yep.

Thank god for not letting the people decide.

Thank god for having a political elite that will decide things for us!

(Did you even think before you posted the utter drivel that you posted? )

[A_Wanderer]

It does fit in well with these sort of dictates

The European Union assembly’s political establishment is pushing through changes that will silence dissidents by changing the rules allowing Euro-MPs to form political groupings.

Richard Corbett, a British Labour MEP, is leading the charge to cut the number of party political tendencies in the Parliament next year, a move that would dissolve UKIP’s pan-European Eurosceptic “Independence and Democracy” grouping.

Under the rule change, the largest and msot pro-EU groups would tighten their grip on the Parliament’s political agenda and keep control of lavish funding.

”It would prevent single issue politicians from being given undue support from the public purse,” said Mr Corbett.

”We want to avoid the formation of a fragmented Parliament, deeply divided into many small groups and unable to work effectively.”

Mr Corbett’s proposals will also give the President of the Parliament sweeping powers to approve or reject parliamentary questions.

Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, claimed that the move goes hand in hand with the denial of popular votes on the new EU Treaty.

”Welcome to your future. This shows an EU mindset that is arrogant, anti-democratic and frankly scary,” he said.

”These people are so scared of public opinion they are willing to set in stone the right to ignore it. Freedom requires the governing elite to be held to account. They must be getting very worried if they are enacting such dictatorial powers for themselves.”

European Parliament to ban Eurosceptic groups - Telegraph

[DrTeeth]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Yep.

Thank god for not letting the people decide.

Thank god for having a political elite that will decide things for us!

(Did you even think before you posted the utter drivel that you posted? )

If "the people" don't like the PoLiTiCaL eLiTe, then they should cast their vote for someone else. My EU representative is there because I voted for her. The irony is that the constitution that was voted out would have made the EU much more transparent and democratic. The debates I followed were more about the EU image than the actual contents of the document.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by financeguy

(Did you even think before you posted the utter drivel that you posted? )

Well that was completely uncalled for.