Bono and Bush ironically have similar struggles..

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diamond

ONE love, blood, life
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GW -
cannot get France, Germany and Russia on board to deal w/worldwide terrorism that has conragated to Iraq.
This is sad, where countries will not do nothing or choose to sit on the fence thereby giving fanactical lunatics a false sense of security while more innocents die..where the problem can be solved in a few short months.

Bono-
has pleaded w/fellow celeberties to join him in the AIDS-Africa/Debt cause and there has been a bit more help as of late..however not enough.
Why arent celeberties flocking to the cause?
Why arent sport figures like Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Allan Iverson and others there lobbying as hard or harder than our good friend Bono?

Apathy sucks.


diamondbruno9
 
Why isn't Bush coming to his help? The man pledged to get everyone behind giving 3 billion to Africa. Yet his own party unamiously voted against.
 
Didn't Bono say today he was "infuriated" by the US congress and funding for AIDS?
 
Diamond, Diamond, Diamond....

I don't know how you have managed to compare the two.

Bono trying to get celebrities to help him out is entirely different to Bush trying to convince other countries to come around to his way of 'thinking'.

And honestly "can be solved in a few short months" isn't really reality even if 30 more countries signed up.

Yes, Apathy sucks though.
But countries disagreeing with the US isn't necessarily apathy.
And I personally think that if a celebrity was going to step in for Bono for the HIV cause, he/she would have to be selected very carefully. I can't think of anyone who could do it as well.

Certainly not Allen Iverson.

And Magic Johnson does a sh*tload of HIV/AIDS work.
 
michael jordan doesn't get involved in issues like this... never has, never will.
allen iverson isn't exactly the kinda guy you'd look for
magic johnson should be more involved... he's done a lot to bring aids awareness here in america, but hasn't done a whole lot regarding overseas stuff.

if there's an athlete out there who's bono should recruit to join him it's dikembe mutumbo... from the congo... who's already done tons of humanitarian work in his native africa, and he plays in new york... which is always a plus.
 
I will agree that Iraq and the Middle East as a whole is way too complex and difficult to have a solution in a matter of months. History doesn't happen like that. For a really good background in the Middle East mess read David Fromkin's "A Peace to End All Peace". The scary thing is the risk factor. That's high, no matter who's involved. It's just plain risky doing Middle East policy.
 
Headache-
Re Bono's cause..these ahtletes should be clamoring to the cause as this is an emergency..begging to be part of the effort to help their brothers and sisters.
All professional athetes w "celeberty currency" regrdless of color should unite w Bono to defeat this plague...as we are a human family we are all brothers and sisters.
Bono must be throwing chairs around pissed off w/their lack of action.
They need to think "globally" and not locally in this day and age.
 
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verte76 said:
I will agree that Iraq and the Middle East as a whole is way too complex and difficult to have a solution in a matter of months. History doesn't happen like that. For a really good background in the Middle East mess read David Fromkin's "A Peace to End All Peace". The scary thing is the risk factor. That's high, no matter who's involved. It's just plain risky doing Middle East policy.
Verte-
I see things a little more simple I guess.
These are religous fanactics.
Every religion and every country has them.
Sensible countries and leaders need to unite and remove these irretrievable souls that choose to force ppl how to live and kill innocent life from the face of the earth.
Its that simple.
It could be solved in a few months.

DB9
 
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diamond said:
Headache-
Re Bono's cause..these ahtletes should be clamoring to the cause as this is an emergency..begging to be part of the effort to help their brothers and sisters.
All professional athetes w "celeberty currency" regrdless of color should unite w Bono to defeat this plague...as as a human family we are all brothers and sisters.
Bono must be throwing chairs around pissed off w/their lack of action.
They need to think "globally" and not locally in this day and age.

I agree, but are you dissapointed in your hero G.W. as much as these athletes?
 
BVSS-
Mark my words..
GW will not let Bono down.:up:
Bono will get the money when Congress votes on it.
You will then have to pick another issue to bash Bush on..;)

DB9
 
diamond said:
BVSS-
Mark my words..
GW will not let Bono down.:up:
Bono will get the money when Congress votes on it.
You will then have to pick another issue to bash Bush on..;)

DB9

I hope he does, I'd love not to have to "bash" Bush on this issue, but he hasn't in the past. What makes you think he'll pull something out this time around?
 
db i agree with you to a point...

where as i agree with you in my hope that some of today's athletes will pick up the cause, athletes aren't politicians... it's not their responsability to do anything. their only responsability is to look after them and there's... should they also be looking out for their fellow man, especially with their wealth and celebrity status? absolutely... but if they don't want to, you can't force them to. jordan's been criticized by many black leaders... from farakahn to jim brown... about his lack of envolvement in the community and in humanitarian affairs. but that's his right.

mutombo howerver has always been active... he's spent millions of his own money to build hospitals in his native land. i may think he can't shoot the ball if his life depended on it and that my knicks didn't need to spend 4 mill a year on him:wink:, but that aside... he is a very well spoken, intellegent, funny, caring man who would be a perfect person for bono to recruit into the DATA cause. that is if bono can deal with walking around with a man who's probably a foot and a half taller than the b-man ;)

check out www.dmf.org for some of his work

dikembe_unsecgenkofiannan.jpg
 
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BVSS-
1-Bono believes in Bush-on this matter.
2-Bush is compassionate, not passive but compassionate.
3-Bush has a track record of keeping his promises
4-It's Christmas.

peace-
DB9

Headache-
Youre correct Mt Mutumbo is a good righteous person:up:
As far as "rights" of a sports celeberty and that -legally youre correct, however I was thinking more on a spiritual level.
See John 15:16

DB9
 
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diamond said:
BVSS-
1-Bono believes in Bush-on this matter.
2-Bush is compassionate, not passive but compassionate.
3-Bush has a track record of keeping his promises
4-It's Christmas.

peace-
DB9

1. Bono has hope and can't bite the hand that feeds him. Trust me if it was anyone else in office, it would be the same thing.
2. Compassionate conservative is a label he used to try and gain those on the fence, he hasn't lived up to it. The man is probably the least compassionate pres we've had in awhile.
3. Like no nation building?
4. Yes it is, HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
 
Diamond,
If you think the entire situation in the Middle East could be solved in "a couple of months," what do you think has prevented it being solved before?
 
delays before the war started might have somethin' to do with it...

i often wonder if america today could ever sit through something like the world wars again... where the number of troops dying in just one day surpased the number that have died in this entire operation... which is apparently a long drawn out quagmire when it's only been a few months. eh... guess we'll never know
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
delays before the war started might have somethin' to do with it...

i often wonder if america today could ever sit through something like the world wars again... where the number of troops dying in just one day surpased the number that have died in this entire operation... which is apparently a long drawn out quagmire when it's only been a few months. eh... guess we'll never know

I think the whole point is to never have to do that again.
 
diamond said:

Verte-
I see things a little more simple I guess.
These are religous fanactics.
Every religion and every country has them.
Sensible countries and leaders need to unite and remove these irretrievable souls that choose to force ppl how to live and kill innocent life from the face of the earth.
Its that simple.
It could be solved in a few months.

DB9

I respectfully disagree diamond. This scenario has been centuries in the making. You can't untie the knots, so to speak, in a matter of months. Heck the word "Iraq" is from an Arabic word meaning "rooted". Just trying to keep up with the damn names in Fromkin's book is a challenge. The whole thing is one
f:censored:d up mess if you ask me.
 
diamond said:
Headache-
Re Bono's cause..these ahtletes should be clamoring to the cause as this is an emergency..begging to be part of the effort to help their brothers and sisters.
All professional athetes w "celeberty currency" regrdless of color should unite w Bono to defeat this plague...as we are a human family we are all brothers and sisters.
Bono must be throwing chairs around pissed off w/their lack of action.
They need to think "globally" and not locally in this day and age.

I agree. This is an emergency. This is no time to stay in your own little world, especially if you are a celebrity adored by millions.
 
In a few months? Get real.

diamond, allow me to speak from experience. When you have people living in a region who have a history of ethnic and religious strife that dates back to the middle ages or earlier, you will never solve it in a few months. You can't understand this because you never lived through it yourself. I did. What happens is that there is a certain mentality that is passed on to every generation, so that children from a very young age understand very well the difference between 'us' and 'them.' What is a piece of land to you was somebody's great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's farm or orchard or whatever, and it is not simply a piece of land, but it is symbolic of something that was lost, probably unjustly in your eyes. When you have generations who have hated each other, and every family has a member who has somehow been harmed, either physically or economically by the other side, you do not solve this problem in a few months. It is absolutely ridiculous to even say something like that. People's national ideas about themselves become deeply ingrained and then they permeate the social fabric and become part of the culture itself. It's not a matter of changing opinions, it is a matter of changing the way of life for millions of people.
 
verte76 said:


I respectfully disagree diamond..
Verte-

As far as Iraq-
Do you agree that fanactics and terorists are now gathered in Iraq and need to be taken/snuffed out?

DB9
 
DB9 [/B][/QUOTE]

Anitram-

As far as Iraq-
Do you agree that fanactics and terorists are now gathering in Iraq and need to be taken/snuffed out?

DB9
 
anitram said:
In a few months? Get real.

diamond, allow me to speak from experience. When you have people living in a region who have a history of ethnic and religious strife that dates back to the middle ages or earlier, you will never solve it in a few months. You can't understand this because you never lived through it yourself. I did. What happens is that there is a certain mentality that is passed on to every generation, so that children from a very young age understand very well the difference between 'us' and 'them.' What is a piece of land to you was somebody's great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's farm or orchard or whatever, and it is not simply a piece of land, but it is symbolic of something that was lost, probably unjustly in your eyes. When you have generations who have hated each other, and every family has a member who has somehow been harmed, either physically or economically by the other side, you do not solve this problem in a few months. It is absolutely ridiculous to even say something like that. People's national ideas about themselves become deeply ingrained and then they permeate the social fabric and become part of the culture itself. It's not a matter of changing opinions, it is a matter of changing the way of life for millions of people.

Absolutely. Very well said. Something that took centuries to develop can't be changed in a matter of months. The U.S. is a very young country and we don't understand "rootedness" as the Europeans and Asians do.
 
I absolutely agree with anitram's post and I think it would be good for many people to try to understand the perspective which people from the middle east (or any other region for that matter) have on their country's situation. It's very easy for us to see everything from the perspective of a person living in America or Britain or Western Europe and fail to take into account that people's mindsets are different all around the world. (Note: different - not better or worse.)

Diamond, I think you're simplifying things far too much. Yes there's something to be said for not getting caught up in the thousand and one interpretations of the situation. However you can't even begin to understand the middle east without understanding the history and in my opinion you can't even hope to begin understanding it without trying to see the situation from the perspective of those involved - for instance by talking to people from that region or reading their writings about the subject.

And finally, to reduce this entire debate to a "do you think terrorism is bad" style question is just wrong. Of course everyone opposes terrorism, but we differ in our opinions on how terrorism could be defeated.
 
Fizzing
Anitram
Verte-
As a whole, are you saying your average Muslim thinks it's ok to slaughter a Non Muslim?

Are you also saying your average Iraqi citizen think it ok to have fanatical terrorists taking out innocents?:hmm:

or
Is the average Iraqi or reg law abiding Muslim afraid of the fanatics and will and stamina of those trying to free them of their oppressors?:hmm:

think about it.
:)
DB9
 
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Diamond,
Why are you just throwing in completely unrelated questions? We were having a discussion about whether all conflicts in the middle east could be solved in a few months, as you said. Do you disagree with what verte, anitram and myself have said? Why do you think if the situation could be solved in a few months it's been persisting for much, much longer than that? Do you think it's important to learn the history of a region in order to understand its current political situation? Do you think it's helpful to attempt to understand a situation from the perspective of thoes involved?

None of us have said anything about Muslims thinking it's okay to kill non-Muslims so I don't really understand why you throw that in there. It's not at all relevant to our discussion.
 
Fizzing-
I started talking out about Iraq and what is going inside of the borders of that country and the inaction of some of the USA's Allies.
Another poster invoked the whole Middle East into it.

I do think if The USA's allies took the appropiate action it would only take a few short months in Iraq and then send a message outside of Iraq to the entire Middle East that peaceful nations and freedom loving ppl of the entire world are united against them.:)

In that context I thought my questions to be appropiate.:)

DB9
 
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diamond, there are so many things separating us from "freedom loving" and "peace loving" people in the Middle East. These people oppose terrorism, extremism, and murderous violence in all of its forms. But they have Arabic (or Turkish, or Persian, etc, etc.) emotions, experiences, traditions, lives.............not American. There's no simplifying this. It's painfully complex. The story is in the books that give me headaches trying to figure out everything, keep up with the damn names..........ouch. It's not painless.
 
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Do you think were making it more complicated than it is..w/all the "shades of grey" type arguments?:hmm:
 
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