martha
Blue Crack Supplier
DaveC said:<-- this man is more intelligent than 99% of white people.
ETA: Mos Def, I mean. Not me
He's a better musician than I am.
DaveC said:<-- this man is more intelligent than 99% of white people.
ETA: Mos Def, I mean. Not me
I think that it will have an effect on genetic screening of embryos and in some brave new world the engineering of people with greater potential; and that is independent of race.Irvine511 said:
i hear you, but i guess what i'm wondering is if we can determine that any one group is less intelligent, or more intelligent (like, say, Ashkenazi Jews), does it affect how one might make policy in any way, shape, or form? i'm sure some idiots will take comfort in the fact that their group is supposedly smarter than another (working under this assumption), but as real world applications go, what is the "worth" of this knowledge?
Nobel-winning biologist apologizes for remarks about blacks
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist Jim Watson apologized "unreservedly" Thursday for stating that black people were not as intelligent as whites, saying he was "mortified" by the comments attributed to him.
"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," Watson said during an appearance at the Royal Society in London.
"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways that they have."
"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief," he said.
Watson, 79, an American who won the 1962 Nobel prize for his role in the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, told the Sunday Times he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really."
A_Wanderer said:I think that it will have an effect on genetic screening of embryos and in some brave new world the engineering of people with greater potential; and that is independent of race.
If the technology exists and I have the money then I would definitely be willing to give my kids such an advantage.
As far as individuals go they are not proof for or against, individuals are not entire populations.
diamond said:
Wanderer-
This is scary thinking.
dbs
Irvine511 said:
almost as scary as the desperate need to claim that less than 100% of sexual orientation is based in biology.
martha said:pffft
His apology rings hollow.
'Race row' Nobel winner suspended
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Nobel laureate biologist James Watson was suspended Friday from his longtime post at a research laboratory and canceled his planned British book tour after controversial comments that black people are not as intelligent as white people.
Watson has apologized for the controversial remarks.
He failed to appear to a book signing at a London bookshop Friday afternoon, and organizers of his planned Sunday evening talk at Newcastle's Center for Life said they had been informed Watson would not appear because he was already on a flight home to the States.
The board of trustees at New York's Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, which Watson has led for nearly four decades, said they had suspended his administrative responsibilities pending a review of his comments.
diamond said:
i submit that it's easier to changed one's sexual orientation
martha said:
You should try it and see how that goes then.
Irvine511 said:
i volunteer to try to get diamond to change his sexual orientation!!!
martha said:
Usually I'd request pics, but not in this case, thanks.
I would need to do a lot of reading up to answer that question, but I do not think that some sort of rigid mental blueprint is desireable compared to the capacity to do well (as in learn effectively, commit to memory better) in what one wants to.BonosSaint said:Would you have a specific intelligence skill you would select for your child, Wanderer? I generally find the standard IQ tests lacking in some regards, one of them not being a breakdown.
For example, I scored high enough on the tests for gifted, but couldn't figure out a figure pattern or more complicated number pattern if my life depended on it. My points were skewered toward verbal. So were my college boards. I'm an anomaly in a family of people skewered toward math skills. Our scores were probably close, but our innate skills veered off. You're more versed than I am. Can it be pinpointed?
A_Wanderer said:[B
How plastic is a human brain, could a brilliant mathematician have been equally well placed as a man of letters if raised in a different environment, what crossover is there in abilities, what restricitions are there for crossover.
[/B]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/global/article2704730.eceMy article in The Sunday Times Magazine last Sunday was, I hoped, a rounded representation of the Nobel laureate, James Watson.
His views are often unpredictable and invariably cause controversy and so I sought a balance, one that reflected his eccentricities but also brought home the magnitude of his contribution to science and continuing devotion to disease research.
I can't support those few, perhaps unguarded, comments he said to me but I can say that he works tirelessly to encourage scientists from all backgrounds and countries. Whatever his views about society, he ultimately cares about great science, whoever it is executed by. I suspect that Watson wouldn't be the first person a scientist would call on to discuss socio-biological theories, but I am happy to bet that a geneticist wouldn't want anyone else by their side if they were trying to solve a problem in the lab.
Colleagues expect Watson's conversations to be peppered with 'un-PC' comments. It is part of his character. He wouldn't be the man he is and have contributed so much to science if he wasn't a little different to everyone else. His curiosity drives him to push the boundaries of what we deem acceptable and in the process, he forces us to confront long-standing humanitarian taboos. Which, as witnessed by the knee-jerk panic response to his comments inferring racial differences, is a crime in our overtly politically correct society.
Science has always been open to debate. Why shackle it? What are we so afraid of? Why gag and shame on the basis of fear?
Maybe this will be a watershed moment, one that examines our inability to openly debate sensitive issues. Whether is it or not, I believe that fear of what might be uncovered – or not – as a result of further analysis is no reason to deprive ourselves of the most experienced geneticist of our age. My hope is, once the smoke clears, that the laboratory will realise that he is too precious to dismiss over fears of what he has said and might say next. He can say it, he can take it back, others can challenge it. We pride ourselves in living within a democratic society. If he said - which he hasn't – that I might be less intelligent because I had blonde hair, I wouldn't care. All that matters to me is that if someone I loved was ill, or dying from an incurable disease, then the man who has the brains, capability and resources to help them, be allowed to do so.
As Chancellor of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, Watson's is not only a maverick in securing funding but a crucial sounding board for lab scientists. Daily, he consults with his scientific investigators – all working on disparate areas of the disease field. At nearly 80, Watson seamlessly manoeuvres his thoughts around scores of ultra-specific genetic problems. All hours of his working day his researchers look to him for advice – secure in the knowledge that he has the experience to make the decisions which, without him, they could misjudge and risk being a step behind.
I have been reported as working with him - when, as stated, I was under the guidance of the then assistant director of the lab, Winship Herr. But, any geneticist who has had their hand grasped by him in a congratulatory handshake following a hard-won discovery in the lab, will tell you that Watson has a unique ability to instil pride in achievement. Biologists rarely see the limelight, and if occasional words of praise and encouragement are enough to keep scientists working a few extra few hours a day, and if this makes our fight against disease faster, then we need him.
After a long day of conversation – the topic of racial inequality was broached. It seemed an important extension to words he had written in his book. I would never have written something that I thought he would not be prepared to defend. I am not trying to destroy a brilliant scientist and I am genuinely horrified by the response. We need to squeeze every last drop of brilliance from this man if we are to continue hoping to unravel the genetic causes of disease. He strives to help young people in their careers. My biggest concern is that, by helping me, he has damaged himself. I could not hope more, that I am wrong.
In a war – the people we want around us are the ones with the experience and proven track record. Disease is a war. We need tactics, brilliance and, above all, experience. He may push the boundaries of what is acceptable in our PC world – and stray into areas that are not his expertise - but when he sits in his role as Chancellor of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, his scientists – though not the publicists – feel safe and expertly guided. And they are.