Billy Graham is a Democrat

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financeguy said:
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
--Ann Coulter

That's what I call religious hate.

Most comments on FYM are critical of a certain kind of Christianity but not Christians in general.
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you know, she's so extreme in her views, that i wonder if she's not a brilliant ironist.
 
u2bonogirl said:
is that meant to be as rude as it comes off? :scratch:
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Oh, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the thread in general. Half of the threads here devolve into bickering about homosexuality, abortion, or Christianity, and this one's just another glaring example. Nothing personal. :wink:
 
On the bible note, it clearly states that people shouldnt have sex outside of marriage, cheat on their spouse, lie, steal, sinfully judge people, gossip, etc etc
So in that sense if christians were to either hate or judge or do whatever to somebody who does these things they would have to live in a hole in the ground and hate everybody.
I think its wrong to pin point one group of people and pick on them. What about all the christian men that check out women that walk by?
Thats considered adultery of the mind.
All I guess Im trying to say is I really wish there was a more tolerant attitude because the things christians do are just as bad as the things people of other beliefs do.
 
XHendrix24 said:


Oh, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the thread in general. Half of the threads here devolve into bickering about homosexuality, abortion, or Christianity, and this one's just another glaring example. Nothing personal. :wink:
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:lol:
yeah. gotcha
youre right ya know. lol
 
Irvine511 said:

80s thinks that because the Bible tells him that homosexuality is wrong and sinful, and he believes this, it can't possibly insulting to gay people for him to state his beliefs..
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As I said before, I don't go around shouting it from the rooftops. In fact, I think that I rarely state that belief unless I'm asked. Sometimes I state my beliefs when I am accused of having an attitude I don't have, so that people will know what I do inded think on the subject.
 
Irvine511 said:


a Christian says "i believe homosexuality is wrong because the Bible tells me so" and he believes he is simply stating his beliefs, and he should be free to do so, and that this can't possibly be insulting because he doesn't hate anyone, and might even have gay friends, but he believes it to be wrong because he read it in the Bible, and for someone to take him to task on exactly *why* he believes this is tantamount to someone attacking him for his religious beliefs.
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I don't get upset when someone asks me "why I believe it". I get upset when I am told that simply by believing it, I am fanning the flames of hatred against gays.
 
80sU2isBest said:
I don't get upset when someone asks me "why I believe it". I get upset when I am told that simply by believing it, I am fanning the flames of hatred against gays.
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That's because Christians generally can't keep their beliefs to themselves and start writing homophobic legislation based on "the Bible says homosexuality is a sin." This is what's going on in Ohio right now in their push to ban gay adoption. That's the reason this bill was created. No reason. No science.

Melon
 
80sU2isBest said:


As I said before, I don't go around shouting it from the rooftops. In fact, I think that I rarely state that belief unless I'm asked. Sometimes I state my beliefs when I am accused of having an attitude I don't have, so that people will know what I do inded think on the subject.
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but why even hold that belief?

what if your eyes, ears, and heart told you differently?

do you trust yourself, or do you subjugate yourself in accordance with what the Bible says?

(a broad question, doesn't have to be about homosexuality).
 
Im just going to say one more thing.
I do think its unfair to say that christians should keep their beliefs to themselves if they really do believe that something is "wrong"
it doesnt mean that anybody has to listen to them, but I think we should have the right to state what we believe. In a gentle way of course. No protest marches, or burning down of buildings.
Okay. Im done
 
80sU2isBest said:


I don't get upset when someone asks me "why I believe it". I get upset when I am told that simply by believing it, I am fanning the flames of hatred against gays.
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but i would say that you are.

you are giving Bible-based support to a line of thought that is used to legislate discrimination, at best, and at worst become a means of justification for gay-bashing.

it's indirect, and you might not support anti-gay legislation (and i know you don't support gay bashing), but there is a clear link between these Christian "beliefs" and what goes on in Washington and Laramie, WY.
 
Irvine511 said:




but why even hold that belief?

what if your eyes, ears, and heart told you differently?

do you trust yourself, or do you subjugate yourself in accordance with what the Bible says?

(a broad question, doesn't have to be about homosexuality).
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If I get into the specifics of why I hold that belief, it will start a big big argument, and I will probably be the only one on my side, or at least the only one who publicly states as such. I'm not really up for it right now.

As for trusting myself, my "personal" beliefs have never really been in conflict with my "biblical beliefs". In fact, my personal beliefs aren't a different entity from my biblical beliefs at all. My main deisre, and what I pray for, is that I will be tranformed into belief and action that is in accordance with Jesus Christ.
 
Irvine511 said:




but i would say that you are.

you are giving Bible-based support to a line of thought that is used to legislate discrimination, at best, and at worst become a means of justification for gay-bashing.
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Have I ever used any Biblical verse to say that homosexuality is wrong? Nope, I don't beat people over the head with a Bible. I don't use anything at all to reinforce my belief. I jsut state it when asked.
 
Quite bluntly, it's because most Christians are thumping heteros and hating homosexuals is no big deal to them. They can go to sleep next to their wife or mistress and what do they care? It doesn't affect them anyway, so there's no need to challenge their beliefs.

And, frankly, rather than challenging their beliefs or their organizational skills, homosexuals also fit a role as the perfect scapegoat. Then they can blame all the ills of the world on homosexuals, and all the thumping Christian heteros don't have to change any of their behavior at all! It's all the big bad homos' fault.

If we're going to talk about absolute truth, I think there's a special circle of hell reserved for those kind of Christians.

Melon
 
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u2bonogirl said:
Im just going to say one more thing.
I do think its unfair to say that christians should keep their beliefs to themselves if they really do believe that something is "wrong"
it doesnt mean that anybody has to listen to them, but I think we should have the right to state what we believe. In a gentle way of course. No protest marches, or burning down of buildings.
Okay. Im done
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Exactly what I believe. Thanks.
 
melon said:
Quite bluntly, it's because most Christians are thumping heteros and hating homosexuals is no big deal to them. They can go to sleep next to their wife or mistress and what do they care? It doesn't affect them anyway, so there's no need to challenge their beliefs.

Melon
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Not most Christians I know, melon. Evidently, you know a lot of people who claim the tag "Christian" but don't live it. Most of the Christians I know have a real desire to live the way God would want them to.

I, in fact, have stated on occasions that I believe that adultery is a worse sin than homosexuality.

What you have said is every bit as insulting as if I said "Most gays sleep with a different person every night". I don't believe that, but if I were to just up and say it, you'd be upset, and rightfully so.
 
You don't need to say it. Most Christians already equate being gay as having AIDS or being promiscuous and miserable. After all, hate groups like "Focus on the Family" spend most of their time spreading lies about homosexuals.

The "mistress" tag was my snide comment. If I am to go by Catholic doctrine, all divorced Protestants are living in sin with their new wives. No secular divorce will ever separate them from their first marriage. So they can go ahead and sleep around with their legal whores.

While we're at it, since we're in the mood to legislate Christian morality, let's ban divorce. All these heretics living in sin after their divorce(s), all comfortably thinking their belief in Jesus will wash away their persistent and unforgiven adultery. And then their bastard children! Oh my. What a bad example set, so now they're going to resort to theft and violent crime, because, in their hearts, they know that they were conceived in sin. And if we let children be adopted by these divorced sinners, then they will grow up thinking that hey...marriage is nothing. If I don't like what's going on, I can dump my wife too. After all, Daddy did it!

(Obviously, I don't believe the above, but the venom I've written is the equivalent of the venom FOTF and other Christian conservatives talk about homosexuals on a regular basis. And the only way people ever seem to get it is if I can make a comparison that applies to them. "Empathy" is not in the Christian vocabulary.)

Melon
 
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80sU2isBest said:

If I get into the specifics of why I hold that belief, it will start a big big argument, and I will probably be the only one on my side, or at least the only one who publicly states as such. I'm not really up for it right now.

As for trusting myself, my "personal" beliefs have never really been in conflict with my "biblical beliefs". In fact, my personal beliefs aren't a different entity from my biblical beliefs at all. My main deisre, and what I pray for, is that I will be tranformed into belief and action that is in accordance with Jesus Christ.
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that's not my question.

my question is: what would you do if your personal experience conflicted with your Biblical beliefs? who do you trust -- your eyes and ears or the Bible?

i'm really very curious and not trying to tease out a particular response.

i do know several people who deal with this all the time -- they are very devout in their faith, and every day they encounter something that contradicts their beliefs. some might view it as a test of faith, others view it as faith constantly unfolding and revealing itself in mysterious ways, and some take it as proof that the Bible simply cannot be taken literally and that what matters most is one's conscience -- to trust that, and not words on a page.
 
80s,

On a personal level I have no problem with your beliefs.


I find them a bit odd.

And against my understanding of Jesus’' teachings.


I have no wish to impose my beliefs on you or "your community."


What bothers me is when you seem to think your beliefs and like-minded believers should have your beliefs imposed on others.

There was a time when "believers" openly condemned "Jews" as Christ killers and openly stated Jews were doomed to hell, unless the abandoned their beliefs and accepted these "believers' truths".

This is no longer acceptable publicly. I am sure the belief is still there. It is just seldom or rarely used in public.

Why is acceptable to condemn "Gay actions" as not being in accordance with your beliefs and not acceptable to condemn 'Jews'?
 
deep said:
Why is acceptable to condemn "Gay actions" as not being in accordance with your beliefs and not acceptable to condemn 'Jews'?
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Tell that to the SBC. They wrote pamphlets for various non-Christian religions from Buddhism to Hinduism to Judaism, which each religion being condemned to hell.

Melon
 
unosdostres14 said:
80sU2 left this at my house:
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that's really uncalled for, and it's really counterproductive to any sort of dialogue that was being achieved here.

i hope a mod removes that.
 
That's pretty fucking lame unosdostres14.

Where has 80sU2isbest made racist comments on here? Never.
 
That was absolutely uncalled for.

We can disagree with people's beliefs, but to equate a difference of opinion with a Klan membership is appalling.

:tsk:
 
80s,



You are in a odd niche,


You argue for these Administrations policies
they are supported by a large group of Evangelicals.


you claim you attend no church or rarely, you don't use the Bible to support your beliefs

and don't support capital punishment

I guess the only common ground is 100% pro-life.

It makes it difficult when all the legislation that is being pushed
is supported by the other very large group, with money and power, and intolerance, they are the driving force in these culture wars.

When you throw in with them, you get questions that apply to them.
 
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