Aussies, drugs, S.E Asia

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Haven't really followed the story but when I saw the headline and read the story awhile ago it just made me ill.
 
:sigh: Ya know, this event reminds me of that movie "Brokedown Palace," I think it was a true story as well. It's really a terrible situation though. You have to be so careful these days. You let down your guard for a minute and it seems like theres impending disaster.
 
Last edited:
A_Wanderer said:
Frankly I don't really give a piss about Shapelle, this is the "Dianification" of Australia whereby things get blown out of all proportion while others are ignored totally. One woman who had a weak defence that did not stand up to scrutiny is found guilty, she is sentenced to 20 years under Indonesian laws, but since she is white and young she gets the most sympathetic media coverage. She has right of appeal, a prisoner exchange program may be established in due time.

Trafficking drugs is not nothing in Indonesia, there are plenty of cases where Australians have been involved in the drug trade in SE Asia and in light of the inability of the defence to prove that the drugs were not hers or break down the procecutions case it is not unexpected.

All this talk of boycotts and not contributing in disasters is a load of crap, taking punitive action because of the process in the Indonesian judicial system (which I may add convicted the Bali bombers to death) seems haphazard.

How would Australians feel if an Indonesian was caught with drugs in their baggage entering Australia, was tried and convicted and then the Indonesian government and people were to demand that the verdict be overturned or the prisoner released?
Click to expand...

Your theorising is truly remarkable, A_W. I do admire your idealism. Anyway, this isn't personal.
Your first paragraph. Dont be fooled by her looks. Give everyone a bit more credit, please. It could very well happen to be the ridiculous sentence for such a comparitive offence which is pissing some people off. You dont have to care, textbook worldview aside. Respect for their laws be damned, it is fucking ridiculous mate, in anyone's language.

The boycotts etc. Many actually feel genuinely concerned about travelling there now. You dont have to be guilty to go through what she is, you only need to be damned unlucky. If the good honest people of Indo suffer because the tourist trade weakens, then the blame eventually falls back on their legal system which failed a girl their tourist industry relies on.

And lastly, if an Indonesian was caught here, they'd most likely be deported, or slapped with a minimal sentence. There'd unlikely be any public outcry from over there, as life is pretty cheap. I dont like to stereotype, but do you honestly think it would be a mirror image reverse? If anything our legal system is the opposite of theirs and bordering on lax, rather than excessively severe. And the funnny thing, pot is just as readily available in each of our countries.
 
I'm conflicted on this.

My gut feeling says she is innocent - there are too many inconsistencies in the case. The prosecutors refused to fingerprint the bag of marijuana as it is in "tampered with". These tampering claims are due to the handlers who discovered the drugs opening the bag. This raises a fundamental question - upon discovery, shouldn't the drugs be quarantined and fingerprinted immediately? Just about every legal system I know does this. Why allow the prime evidence to be tampered with? That is insane.

There are also now substantiated claims that baggage has been tampered upon leaving Australia. A major cocaine ring has recently been busted in Sydney. Whether or not the drugs were planted, only Schappelle knows for sure. Was there a drug smuggling ring active in Brisbane? It would seem yes there was and still is. Is she a vicitm of it? It's hard to say. Why would you try to take marijuana into a country where its local availability is almost legendary? Ask any Aussie under 30 who has been to Bali and they will tell you you can score drugs easily and cheapily. Why smuggle some in? There is talk Aussie ganga is better quality - but then why travel to Bali to smoke it? Stay in Australia! Weird.

Also the huge media attention meant the Indonesian G'ment had to return a guilty verdict. There was no other way. Innocent or otherwise, letting her go means every other person caught coming from any country could pull this "my baggage was tampered with" claim and tie up the courts.

Either way it is really sad.

There is talk of a prisoner exchaneg being set up.

Any prisoner exchange will be conditional that an Australian court cannot accept an appeal or reduce the term. There is no way they could agree to any other kind of program as the legal systems are so different.

What I think will happen is if she stays in Indonesia, a year or two down the track she can hope to get a Presidential reprieve. At the end of the day, Bang Bang will probably give a pardon - but it wont be for a while - she has been found guilty under Indonesian law, therefore for face-saving reasons she must "suffer" for a while.

This case, and especially the verdict has deeply altered the Australian/Indonesian political environment. The way the Howard government attempted to get involved via the Police Chief's letter about baggage smuggling was not appreciated - the judges made mention of outside factors interferring.

Either way she had to be found guilty - regardless of her guilt.

Surely the Corby family knew that - and any hope was false hope. I honestly don't think she was guilty from what I have read from both sides - yet no precedent was going to be made on an internationally followed drug case. Too high profile.

Finally, for those non-Aussie readers, trafficking 4.1kg of marijuana into Bali is as stupid as smuggling a joint into Amsterdam - it is futile, and ultimately the risks outweigh the benefits stupidly.

It raises a few conclusions -

A) She was an innocent drug mule. Seems likely, but questions remain again why transport a low financially yielding drug to an area awash with the drug? It's street value in Australia is so much higher and marijuana is easy to get.

B) She was blackmailed into carrying it. Seems a longshot. Numerous body language specialists and legal experts have gone over hours of hour testimony and interviews - all point to the fact that she strongly believes she is innocent - so either give the girl or an Oscar, or she genuinely had no idea.

C) She knew what she was doing and has strung a hwole country along. This raises the most disturbing conclusions - she is a lying drug dealer. I really want to think this is not the case. It seems so unlikely - but what if she is guilty?

The hardest thing today was watching Schapelle (I can never get the spelling right) just look destroyed as she is sentenced to 20 years - but major claps to her Mum who the judge told to shut up for calling him a dog and to f*ck off! Good woman! Let them have it!
 
Even if guilty, a 20 year sentence is a monstrous injustice for any and all forms of drug possession.

The correct sentence for canabis possession should be, nil.

I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
 
financeguy said:
I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
Click to expand...

Dunno that its all "white people". Australia and Indonesia have a bit of history. I have been up in the mountains of Ubud, where the French, Dutch, etc hangout (rather than Tuban/Kuta/Legian where the Australians hang out,) and its more pleasant in Ubud.
 
financeguy said:
I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
Click to expand...

How they welcome white people?!? If there's been any discrimination, I think it's been in reverse. Had she been an Indo national I'd say there's no doubt she'd be in the clanger for life - or worse. I think she's damn lucky to be white, Australian and female.

And I agree that 20 years is a crazy amount of time for pot (I'm all for the decriminalisation of the stuff). But I also think she's a complete and total idiot for trying to take a 4kg (9lbs for the Americans) bag of marijuana on a plane and into a foreign country. To make that decision, you at some point weight that risk up. She must have done this, I mean NO ONE is going to try and take even a single joint through foreign customs without thinking "What if I get caught? What will happen to me? Is it worth the risk?" Whether you agree with the severeness of the penalties in that country or not, she's submitted herself to that possibility. The risk to her was worth it, whether that was the fun of being stoned for the duration of her holiday, or the money she got to do it, or was going to get at the other end. Either way, she chose to risk it.

So, I've got no beef with people saying "Indonesia's pot laws are loony" and making a bit of noise about that - it's true. But all this "It's a travesty!!!!" "It's not fair!!!!" "Boycott the country!!!" "Give us back our tsunami aid!!!" is complete and total bullshit. It IS completely fair. Those are Indonesias laws - as stupid and archaic as they are - and she had a choice, and chose to risk it anyway.

Guilty. 20 years. Get over it.
 
Earnie,

You bring up a point that has mystified me. 4 kilos is a HUGE item. The average newborn baby is just under 4 kilos. I'm quite stunned that someone would believe they could smuggle an object that heavy through customs.

The other stupidity in this case is why take drugs into Indonesia anyway? Im not into that lifestyle personally but I've been offered the "buy my carved wood box" deals before. Why would anyone need to take drugs into Indonesia?

What Im saying is "What was she thinking?"
 
financeguy said:
Even if guilty, a 20 year sentence is a monstrous injustice for any and all forms of drug possession.

The correct sentence for canabis possession should be, nil.

I won't be going to Indonesia any time soon if this is how they welcome white people.
Click to expand...

Oh, God! On behalf of all Third World nations, I apologise for not according the right amount of esteem to one of your superior race! Next time, we'd better close two eyes not just one.


f.
 
foray said:
Oh, God! On behalf of all Third World nations, I apologise for not according the right amount of esteem to one of your superior race! Next time, we'd better close two eyes not just one.

f.
Click to expand...

I never said whites were a "superior race".

As Beli pointed out, it probably has more to do with a history between Australia and Indonesia and if so, it is equally unacceptable if Ms Chapelle was discriminated against on the basis of her nationality as if she was discriminated against on the basis of her skin colour.

If a black person was discriminated against in a white country, for example, that would be equally unacceptable but frankly I will not keep my mouth shut for the sake of political correctness if I see something similar happening in an Asian or African country.

However, I think it is naive to think that there is no such thing as discrimination against whites in some countries - events in Zimbabwe in recent years being a case in point.

It might not be "PC" to point it out, but I've never been much of a PC advocate.
 
1) She is guilty. Why can't this country deal with it? :mad:
2) 20 years is the sentence over there for a reason. If a nation feels so strongly about drugs, don't take them into the country. They have a right to put her away for as long as they like.
3) The silly cow deserves what she has coming, if guilty (which she is).
 
I think it wasn't colour but nationality. She got a far lesser sentence because of the diplomatic dance between Australia and Indonesia. The charges there are simple -
Trafficking - Death
Carrying - Life
Possession - Up to 20.

That amount of the stuff, coming into the country, if she were a local that would be trafficking and good night. The prosecution were going for Carrying & Life. She got the harshest possession penalty, but this wasn't getting caught having a quiet locally bought joint on her hotel balcony, it was 4kg's being brought into the country. She's incredibly lucky that there are sensitivities between the two countries, and she had a leanient judge. These things certainly didn't work against her.
 
Earnie Shavers said:
I think it wasn't colour but nationality. She got a far lesser sentence because of the diplomatic dance between Australia and Indonesia. The charges there are simple -
Trafficking - Death
Carrying - Life
Possession - Up to 20.
Click to expand...

Ok, fair enough. It's still not right though.
 
Palace_Hero said:
3) The silly cow deserves what she has coming, if guilty (which she is).
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. Hang the bitch, she has it coming. Hey, she made a mistake, but mistakes should be punished by death, right?:angry:
 
Where is the goddamn proof that she was the one intending to smuggle this pot in? THAT is my gripe. If the Indo judge believed beyond doubt that it was her, she'd be waiting for the firing squad just like the 9 are.
 
The general attitude given towards Indonesia demonstrates that we are the white racist imperialistic people that the Abu Bakr Bashir's in Indonesia paint us out to be, demanding that we be immune from their laws and punishment, that we should be outside their reach.

The most disgusting feature, people talking and often ringing up aid agencies and asking about pulling money from Tsunami relief does a lot of damage.

She was given a fair trial, her defence team was unable to demonstrate that the drugs were planet and speculated without giving evidence. She was sentenced in accordance to Indonesian law and now has right of appeal.

Just end this ridiculous media inspired "Dianification" of the situation, it does more harm than good.
 
Last edited:
A_Wanderer said:
The general attitude given towards Indonesia demonstrates that we are the white racist imperialistic people that the Abu Bakr Bashir's in Indonesia paint us out to be, demanding that we be immune from their laws and punishment, that we should be outside their reach.

The most disgusting feature, people talking and often ringing up aid agencies and asking about pulling money from Tsunami relief does a lot of damage.

She was given a fair trial, her defence team was unable to demonstrate that the drugs were planet and speculated without giving evidence. She was sentenced in accordance to Indonesian law and now has right of appeal.

Just end this ridiculous media inspired "Dianification" of the situation, it does more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Well done!

Eloquently put and sums up why all these pro-corby nuts are hysterical.

The girl could well be innocent, but at the end of the day she's guilty.
 
There's many disgusting things about it all, yes. This talk of boycotting for a start. This bullshit about aid being returned. A 20 year sentence when all their laws required was proof of ownership of the vessel which carried the drug (her bodyboard bag) but noit the drug itself. 4.5 days per victim for Abu Bakir Bashir. The claims that it is racist sentiment which has angered Australia so much. The actual racist sentiments which are now simmering by some over here.

Yes, the list of disgusting things is terribly long. Infact, the whole thing is absolutely disgusting.
 
Angela Harlem said:
Where is the goddamn proof that she was the one intending to smuggle this pot in? THAT is my gripe. If the Indo judge believed beyond doubt that it was her, she'd be waiting for the firing squad just like the 9 are.
Click to expand...

And how would that be different to 99% of drug busts around the globe. "Officer, it's not mine, I swear!"

In most cases there is no conclusive evidence that it is in fact theirs and that they did in fact 'put it there', but no-one thinks twice when they are charged with possession. The difference with the other 9 is a) it was a far, far, far larger amount b) it was heroin c) There is no doubt that it was trafficking, which is different to carrying or possession. And as it is I expect they'll in the end get life, not the shooting squad, because like Corby they'll have the benefit of a huge media storm and diplomatic sensitivites behind them. An Indonesian in Corby's place would be shot, and an Indonesian in the 'Bali 9' case would be shot too, just quicker.

Despite the 'A Current Affair/Daily Telegraph' mass hysteria over this, the exact same scenario would have played out in virtually any country she tried to take 4kgs of pot into. The difference is severity. As a foreigner going into the US she would have been charged with anything ranging from possession to minor trafficking, just as in Indonesia. The difference is that that amount and that drug carry a different clarification in the US, and she'd probably just be hit with a big fine and deported back to Australia, never to return. If she were an American citizen heading back into the US, she'd do the full trial, get slapped again with anything from possession to trafficking, and get anything from a fine and community service to a suspended sentence, and if she had a dodgy record that could go up to small jail time. But either way, there's no escaping the charge.

The conclusion that she was in possession is not at all an unusual or unique one, despite there being no evidence that she herself put it in that bag and was knowingly carrying it. The ONLY difference is the harsh Indonesian laws.
 
Last edited:
financeguy said:


I never said whites were a "superior race".

As Beli pointed out, it probably has more to do with a history between Australia and Indonesia and if so, it is equally unacceptable if Ms Chapelle was discriminated against on the basis of her nationality as if she was discriminated against on the basis of her skin colour.

If a black person was discriminated against in a white country, for example, that would be equally unacceptable but frankly I will not keep my mouth shut for the sake of political correctness if I see something similar happening in an Asian or African country.

However, I think it is naive to think that there is no such thing as discrimination against whites in some countries - events in Zimbabwe in recent years being a case in point.

It might not be "PC" to point it out, but I've never been much of a PC advocate.
Click to expand...

financeguy,

I wasn't even referring to Ms Chapelle being so-called discriminated against because she is white. As Tyler, I mean Earnie, explained and with which you concurred, she was in fact given a lighter sentence than usual.

The fact is that several Indonesians, Malaysians, Thais etc are hung due to drug trafficking offenses, but no one's batting an eyelid in these instances. In light of this, your comment "if this is how they welcome white people..." sounds incredibly racist for - I hope - obvious reasons. And besides, what sort of "welcome" did the Australians give to the Afghan refugees? Shall I now say that I will never visit Australia again, on these grounds?

foray
 
foray you'd be perfectly entitled to be angered at our treatment of any refugee. Refusing to visit on those grounds would end up being as ridiculous as all the Australians now saying this is what they will do with Bali. However, we're not above reproach. As an aside, it is nothing short of fucking appalling how we treat refugees here. It is in that vein, that I dont really think Indonesian law is above reproach either. Tyler, you summed it up well in the end (after merely stating what almost everyone is already aware of, no offence, but I'm not really too stupid and am aware of all that already) with "The conclusion that she was in possession is not at all an unusual or unique one, despite there being no evidence that she herself put it in that bag and was knowingly carrying it. The ONLY difference is the harsh Indonesian laws."
 
I was only offended by that one glaring statement of financeguy's, Ang, not your own anger with Indonesia's handling of the matter. In that regard, I completely empathise with you. Of course it is preposterous that the Bali bomber was granted 2 1/2 years in comparison with Schapelle's case. I am with you on that totally.

foray
 
Actually the Bali Bombers were mostly sentenced to death (with appeals on the basis of retroactive anti-terror laws). The alleged leader of JI was given a very short term. I see no double standard, it was about arguing specific cases, Bashir obviously had a better laywers and knew how to work the system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
Hey there! I finally made an account here!
Replies
2
Views
272
U2_family365
U
MrsSpringsteen
Gilead States Of America
Replies
16
Views
904
MrsSpringsteen
MrsSpringsteen
Snowlock
Sphere "app" and Apple Wallet
Replies
10
Views
2K
Snowlock
Snowlock
Reggie Thee Dog
Are we NOT discussing the Dolby Atmos Mix of Achtung Baby?
Replies
13
Views
1K
count rushmore
count rushmore
Achtung_Bebe
IO: It's been a while...
Replies
2
Views
657
mikal
mikal

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom