atheists are...weird...

[Lilly]

ok, not ALL atheists are weird. two of my finest friends claim to be atheists (though i truly hope they don't rule out God, cos that'd be a shame) and they aren't insane.

last night i was watching msnbc and i saw a woman who is apparently very important to the atheists. she was talking about september 11th being "too Christiany" for atheists. (i think she's the same woman who was trying really hard to ban the pledge of allegiance in schools for its use of "God.") she was outraged when remembrance ceremonies featured prayer services and how more and more people went to church to seek solace during the weeks following 9/11.

there is a cross assembled now at ground zero. it is made of beams from the towers themselves i believe (i saw a picture of it, though did not read/hear information on it, it looked like two beams which i am assuming were from the wreckage). it stands there, no one knows how it got there or who made it. she contends that the government condones this and put it there for the sole purpose of making our country "more Christian."

she proceeded to reference other national memorials such as the vietnam wall, the lincoln memorial, and the george washington memorial. citing that they had no religious symbols on them she said they were more american.

she kept coming back to the "fact" that the american government is trying to alienate atheists, which she is saying is religious intolerance blah blah. funny cos not one of the prayer meetings was done by the government, she's right, no religious symbols are on the national monuments, and we don't sanction in school prayers in public schools (even if the students do it themselves).


if we Christians have to be extra super tolerant of atheists, shouldn't they extend the same curtesy and show Christians (and other religious people) some tolerance?

[Lemonite]

Ah yes.. Athiests.. My athiest friend has found it funny to make fun of priests in sweeping generalizations in regards to the latest scandal (Which I don't think is as bad as it is made out to be).. But Hahhaa.. Seriously.. I wouldn't want to be in a position making fun of a person of God.. That's like seducing a priest..

Yah I hope they enjoy where they're going,
L.Unplugged

[FallingStar]

Originally posted by Lilly

if we Christians have to be extra super tolerant of atheists, shouldn't they extend the same curtesy and show Christians (and other religious people) some tolerance?

Certainly they should do.

Last year I had a Latin teacher who claimed to be an atheist and always told everybody that he can't understand those Christans who see their God as their 'Lord', because no other religion would put their Lord that high and into the position of a master (that's what he said).

I thought this would be weird as well, because he can think that - I have no problem with people believing in what they think is right - but he doesn't have to be so intolerant insisting everytime on it!

[Lilly]

Originally posted by FallingStar

Last year I had a Latin teacher who claimed to be an atheist and always told everybody that he can't understand those Christans who see their God as their 'Lord', because no other religion would put their Lord that high and into the position of a master (that's what he said).

so that time that Jesus was a man and walked the earth just didn't do it for him eh? meh, let him believe what he wants.

[FallingStar]

Originally posted by Lilly


so that time that Jesus was a man and walked the earth just didn't do it for him eh? meh, let him believe what he wants.

Nope, it doesn't. I think he just wants to be 'up-to-date' with the pupils and tells everybody what he things is cool. He's an ****!
But anyway: I don't have him again in my entire school life I think.

[JessicaAnn]

I guess people can believe or not believe in whatever they want. But it is hard for me to imagine not believing in something bigger than myself (be it a spirit, a god, a goddess, a pantheon of deities, etc). Believing in something bigger than myself gives me hope and a sense of purpose ..

[DrTeeth]

How about accepting these differences in religion instead of tolerating them (which means '"putting up with")?

[pax]

we don't sanction in school prayers in public schools (even if the students do it themselves).

Careful with this. It's true that there's a fine line to be walked when it comes to school prayer, but the stance of the government is something like this when it comes to religion and public schools:

1.) Prayer that is led by or (obviously) compelled by school administrators (including teachers) is generally not allowed.

2.) Prayer that is led by students is sometimes allowed. For example, a prayer group would probably be okay; students leading prayers at football games is usually not.

3.) Individual prayer or (for example) Bible study by students is allowed. If it's not, that's a problem and the school would get in trouble for it; for example, if they tried to make a student leave a Bible at home.

4.) If a school allows classrooms or facilities to be used for school or outside groups, then it must let use religious groups use those same facilities too, and any religious group that wishes to do so must be allowed (for example, can't allow Bible study but not Koran study).

Hope this helped.

[CannibalisticArtist]

BTW AA do not count as real atheists, they are far too bitchy, aggressive and....religious!
i think atheisim is not so much the deniance of the existance of god, more like the refusal to worship god even if god exists, which is extremely valid if you think about it.
i could think of many reasons why i would refuse to be ruled by such a power.

[RavenStar]

I've never had a problem withg Atheists myself. Althought the Christians at my school do tend to bother me alot. Walking down the hall and being called a devil worshipped and having crosses shoved in your face is no fun.

[BAW]

Originally posted by DrTeeth
How about accepting these differences in religion instead of tolerating them (which means '"putting up with")?

My thoughts exactly.

[Lilly]

paxetaurora,

i know all of those rules. i graduated from a public high school not more than a month ago. the deal with in school prayer is that even if students want to do it, it becomes rather tricky altogether. my freshman year, a senior boy died in a snowboarding accident (he had gone ahead to see if it was safe for his brother and best friend) and an avalanche hit and took him with it. a prayer service was held in the upper courtyard at school. this was only AFTER parents called in whining about it and admins threatened to make it an unexcused absence (thus you getting detention). everyone still went, no punishment was given.

and good doctor, tolerance is i think the best we can hope for sometimes. tolerance comes before acceptance on a mass level, which is unfortunate yet true.

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by DrTeeth
How about accepting these differences in religion instead of tolerating them (which means '"putting up with")?

because all religions claim that each of them are the best in order to get you to follow, to fully 'accept' another religion is to say that the other religion is basically as good as your's, which means no fuel for human greed to being privilaged over other humans. this doesn't apply to all people of religion, but to most.

[Vorsprung]

Well, atheism for is very simple. I see no reason for believing in any kind of upernatural being, be it God, Allah, Satan, Jahweh, Shiva, Krsna or whatever you like to call it. I am a sceptic and I first need some personal evidence to believe in it (not necessarily scientific evidence). Yes, I am an evolutionist instead of a creationist but i also know this doesn't have to rule out some kind of god. However, people sometimes use the argument that the universe is so complex, so sophistocated, so great that it cannot be born out of nothing or just an enormous amount of energy, that some supernatural being must have created, planned or guided it. They're trying to find an answer to how all this (this universe) is possible and has started. But by claiming some supernatural entity did this, won't give you any answers, because this entity must be at least just as much sophisticated, so the logical next question would be: Who or what created God?
Now people most often say they believe in God, because they sense his presence now and then. Well, that's great for you, but I don't. Also, even if I'd just sense it, I even might keep doubting the existence of this divine entity ,since I have also sensed other things that weren't true (some drugs can do some really weird things in your mind).
As for atheists being weird. Sure, some are, and some are intolerant, some are stupid, some are very intelligent, some are ugly, some are really hot, just like people who believe otherwise are.
Atheism for me is just the most logical thing to believe, that's just it.

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by DrTeeth
How about accepting these differences in religion instead of tolerating them (which means '"putting up with")?

I agree with DrTeeth. In my experience, atheists aren't generally in your face with their views so 'tolerating' and 'putting up with them' seems an odd viewpoint to me. I don't recall ever having to be 'super extra tolerant' of an atheist's beliefs though I do know many atheists. I also don't understand the wording of "claiming to be atheist". Some of you say you are Christians, yet you feel others claim to be atheists.

I am not an atheist but I am also not a Christian and while I agree with this:

she proceeded to reference other national memorials such as the vietnam wall, the lincoln memorial, and the george washington memorial. citing that they had no religious symbols on them she said they were more american.

...I am also not at all offended by the cross because I can easily transfer that imagery to fit my own spiritual beliefs, which is that the ego must be crucified before self and God-realization can be attained, and I appreciate the reminder whenever I see it.

[agentorange]

I don't know many atheists, and zero militant ones. Many of the weirdest people I know are Christians, but most people here profess Christianity (as I do). Because of this homogeneous-ness, I appreciate the spectrum of views represented on this board on any given subject, and I embrace people's right to practice their beliefs, even when they differ widely from my own.

Which leads me to this: I am sick of the sentiment that I see growing in this country that basically says, "I have a right to live my life without being offended." These people obviously don't have the thick skin that is required of those who would sustain a democracy. When my views are not reflected in culture, legislation, etc., I get upset or whatever, but I don't threaten lawsuits. There are avenues in place for ideas to be put into the public arena and for change to be effected. Both the blessings and the frustrations of this nation hinge on freedom of speech, religion, association, etc. If someone has a problem with something, financial backing ( or withdrawal thereof) and votes can move mountains. If these fragile people (atheists, Christians, whatever) cannot learn to live within the established and proven system, and continue to impose their fringe agendas, I would invite them to exercise their freedom to live elsewhere. Not everyone can handle an open forum of ideas.

[foray]

'Militant' atheists? Hm, I am not sure if I know such people.

Does ridiculing my beliefs (I'm Christian) every turn they can, make them militant? How about when they insult a God I love? Or when they make fun of even the terms like 'quiet time' and 'sharegroup'? Or when they constantly publish anti-Christian articles in school?

If so, then yes, I think I know dozens of gung-ho anti-Christians.


foray

[joyfulgirl]

Your points are well taken, foray, but atheists are not necessarily anti-Christian and the anti-Christian people are not necessarily atheists. I'm sad that so many of you seem to be on the receiving end of such hostility regarding your religions. I must say, that doesn't exist in my life at all except occasionally from my family in mostly passive-aggressive ways. But I am fortunate to live in a pretty progressive community where people are generally not only tolerant but actually supportive of different spiritual paths.

[foray]

The difference between anti-Christians and atheists is acknowledged, joyfulgirl. I guess I use them interchangeably because most of the atheists I know are anti-Christian. I also thought your comment about the cross was interesting, too. I'd like to ask, do you believe that we are all God/gods, or something like that?

To be fair, I suppose anti-Christian sentiments are often a direct result of the 'overly eager' evangelical Christians (those who wave crosses in Ravenstar's face). In a way, it is the church that pushes away people from Christ.

However, Christians face the dilemma of how to go about sharing their beliefs with others. On the one hand, we are told by not to be 'lukewarm' in our fervour. On the other, as you know, by being more than lukewarm, we run into the danger of putting people off Christianity.

What I try to do is to keep it simple and share my experiences with God/Jesus' teachings the same way I would tell a friend of a good movie I've seen. In other words, have it come out naturally. Sometimes it's very easy, other times it is hard.

foray

[Zooropa]

I think religious people are weird!!! You believe in an invisible Man!!!!! Seriously though, I personally am upset with the whole"God Bless America" saying. I don't believe in God, so why should I wish a non-existant figure to bless my country? Don't get me wrong, I do understand the sentiment behind "God Bless America", I just don't like the saying. For me, my non-belief in God is easy, I don't believe in a judgemental, incompetent, INVISIBLE person that watches over everything. Man created God. Have you ever wonderd why no knew major religion has surfaced in the last few hundred years? Are we out of Gods? Well, the answer is simple, People would never buy into it. It would belooked at as a fairy tale, which is what I feel all religions are. A way for man to feel like he has a reason to exist, a purpose. Which we don't. To bad I won't be alive when we first make contact (hopefully) with an extraterestrial civilization. I wonder how religions will deal with that!!!!

I'm not trying to insult anyone here. It is difficult to express my feelings in any way that is not, at least to some degree, insulting to a religious believer. So to all you believers out there, good for you!! I just don't buy it...