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Old 06-20-2002, 04:32 AM   #21
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I'm sure there are more new religions in this day and age than there has ever been zooropa. We just call them cults these days. Except for the crazy ones we hear about where leaders convince the members to do ridiculous things like suicide or murder there ar probably hundres more that either fade away or remain localised or specific to the branches they form, never really gaining mass popularity or public support. Some cynics have even called Christianity the longest running and most successful cult. At least Christianity doesnt seek out the weak minded for its own advances.
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Old 06-20-2002, 10:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I'm sure there are more new religions in this day and age than there has ever been zooropa. We just call them cults these days. Except for the crazy ones we hear about where leaders convince the members to do ridiculous things like suicide or murder there ar probably hundres more that either fade away or remain localised or specific to the branches they form, never really gaining mass popularity or public support. Some cynics have even called Christianity the longest running and most successful cult. At least Christianity doesnt seek out the weak minded for its own advances.
You've hit the nail precisely on the head ...

I took a course (at a Catholic school) that examined the development of cults. It was horrifying and fascinating at the same time.

All religions start as cults or fringe religions (even Christianity was at one point a cult). The distinction is between cults and destructive cults that utilize mind control (techniques that can include prayer, meditation, chants, singing songs, visualizations, affirmations, positive self-talk, breathing techniques, hypnosis, "speaking in tongues", ecstatic dancing, music, isolation from family and friends) and require total submission to an all-powerful leader). Cults convince followers that the outside world is bad and that the world of the leader is the "right" world.

There is a man Steve Hassan whose books we read for this course who explains a lot of these things better than I can ... It's interesting reading to say the least:

Here's an FAQ: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resources/faq.asp

Here's a current list of cults: .http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/groups.asp

While it may seem a simplistic example, does anyone recall the Simpsons episode where everyone in Springfield joins a cult ... well, although a watered down example, it was dead on
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:32 AM   #23
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Originally posted by foray
I also thought your comment about the cross was interesting, too. I'd like to ask, do you believe that we are all God/gods, or something like that?
Yes, I believe we are all Gods unrealized, that we were created in God's image, and that soul is that spark of God within each of us but it is basically asleep while the mind is the ruling power within. There are spiritual paths that deal with awakening soul/expanding consciousness through various contemplative/meditative disciplines--so that that spark of soul expands until it is the all-encompassing viewpoint. The soul can be likened to a drop of water and God is the ocean, and "God-realization" (or "enlightenment" as some teachings call it) would then be the drop merging back into the ocean. It's like Christians believe in heaven after death while other teachings promote that heaven is a state of consciousness that can be attained while alive, rather than a place soul goes after the body dies. Jesus, therefore, is seen as an example of what we can all become in time.

Quote:
Originally posted by foray
To be fair, I suppose anti-Christian sentiments are often a direct result of the 'overly eager' evangelical Christians (those who wave crosses in Ravenstar's face). In a way, it is the church that pushes away people from Christ.

However, Christians face the dilemma of how to go about sharing their beliefs with others. On the one hand, we are told by not to be 'lukewarm' in our fervour. On the other, as you know, by being more than lukewarm, we run into the danger of putting people off Christianity.
yes, I agree with all of this. It's a dilemma I face as well at times--wanting to share my beliefs in case it might be just the thing another is looking for, yet not wanting to proselytize. It's a fine line sometimes.

Quote:
Originally posted by foray
What I try to do is to keep it simple and share my experiences with God/Jesus' teachings the same way I would tell a friend of a good movie I've seen. In other words, have it come out naturally. Sometimes it's very easy, other times it is hard.

foray
I try to do the same. And I also feel that 'living the life' and showing by example is more powerful sometimes than talking about it. It's hard, though--walkin' the talk!
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Old 06-20-2002, 12:33 PM   #24
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The B'hai faith is a fairly new and consistently growing religion...I'm not sure 'how new'...but its a youngster compared with the other monotheistic traditions..

I don't mind atheists...some of my best friends are atheists I don't mind Christians...I'm one myself...

Its when either one gets so in your face you can't breathe or think that I don't like them...

Most of the atheists I have had the pleasure to meet have been good people overall...no fanatics..

I have met some fanatical Christians but thanfully they have been in the minority...


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Old 06-20-2002, 12:48 PM   #25
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JessicaAnn, those links don't seem to be working. That sucks because they sounded interesting.
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Old 06-20-2002, 12:53 PM   #26
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Another point to add,
In my geography class there were all these posters on different religions up around the walls. One religion whose name I cannot remember (I hadnt heard the name before) looked like a scam. There were all these pics of this "holy" dude. He was supposedly a religious leader who had some sort of power (faith healing, talking with "God", something like that). One of the pictures had rays of light coming out from behing him. It reminded me of pictures of one of those televangelists. It just looked like a scam. It's kind of hard to explain how, it just looked like one.
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Old 06-20-2002, 01:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
JessicaAnn, those links don't seem to be working. That sucks because they sounded interesting.
Here they are ...

FAQ: http://www.freedomofmind.com/resources/faq.asp

List of Groups: http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/groups.asp
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Old 06-20-2002, 07:22 PM   #28
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WHY do people have to judge each other? Ok, I'm NOT a atheist, but that doesn't make them differnt from everyone else. They just don't agree with some people. At school (during football season) the school makes us all go to the gym for a peprally ( "Let's worship wannabe football kings") and so everyone puts their heads down to pray. NOW I think that is just plain dumb, so I don't do it. I could care less about the football and cheerleaders. I just stare at the people that DO do it ( ah they are so sad). I have been visited by my counceler cause she
(and most of the teachers) consider me a devil worshipper
But, that's because I choose to wear black clothes and nailpolish...
I just think people should get along

I mean, if Mr. Marilyn Manson and Bono can get along, why not everyone else? Even though Manson had tons of people attacking him, Bono spoke up for him












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Old 06-20-2002, 10:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by gwenu2


1. WHY do people have to judge each other?


2. ( ah they are so sad).



uhm...did you notice that these phrases were within sentences of each other in your post?
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:17 PM   #30
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Excellent observation, Lilly!

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Old 06-21-2002, 12:28 AM   #31
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Originally posted by U2Bama
Excellent observation, Lilly!

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I agree...interesting thread Lilly
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Old 06-21-2002, 12:48 PM   #32
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Before I start my little rant, I'd like to point out a very important difference among atheists. Besically, there's two (2) kinds of atheist. There's weak atheism, which is the non-belief in the existance of a higher power, and there's strong atheism, which is the belief in the nonexistance of a higher power.

The mentality behind weak atheism makes a lot of sense to me (although i wouldn't describe myself as one), and the argument behind it makes a lot of sense.

Strong atheism, on the other hand, is quite possibly the most ridiculous system of beliefs that I've encountered. The basis for strong atheism is this: There is no evidence for God, therefore God doesn't exist. We all know that that's an invalid argument, but they cling to this argument and spout nonsense like, "Faith is for the weak." and "God is just pretend." They have the mannerisms of psycho fundamentalist jesus freaks. They complain when a person presents his or her belief in God as fact, but they go out of their way to offend theists and attacking their beliefs, and they defend themselves with the "knowledge" that they're right and anyone who believes in God is wrong.

I hate those people, and I really want to beat them all with a hail of bullets.
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Old 06-21-2002, 01:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
"Faith is for the weak."
i have found that faith is for the strongest of people.

that was a good post though...i don't see the mentality behind that, although i will TOLERATE them. i should hope fundamentalists on either side learn tolerance...cos this is just annoying.
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Old 06-21-2002, 02:11 PM   #34
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So the atheists on, say, this forum are weird?



I'm an atheist, and i don't think i'm a weirdo or a freak because of it. I know both atheists and religious people, and all of them were good people (IMO there should only be one divide between humans: either they're good persons or not). I have never EVER had religious beliefs enforced upon nor have i EVER persuaded anyone else into atheism.
I also have seen people with black clothes and nail polish and even though they looked a bit "excentric" i would never call them Satan worshippers.

IMO people should believe what they want and seek happiness in their own way.
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Old 06-21-2002, 11:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
Strong atheism, on the other hand, is quite possibly the most ridiculous system of beliefs that I've encountered. The basis for strong atheism is this: There is no evidence for God, therefore God doesn't exist. We all know that that's an invalid argument, but they cling to this argument and spout nonsense like, "Faith is for the weak." and "God is just pretend."
Why is that an invalid arguement? There is no hard evidence of God's existence, that fact alone is Intrinsic to having 'faith' or 'belief'. I believe that Man created God to explain the world around him, therefore God IS pretend. That arguement is not invalid if you don't believe in God.


Quote:
They have the mannerisms of psycho fundamentalist jesus freaks. They complain when a person presents his or her belief in God as fact, but they go out of their way to offend theists and attacking their beliefs, and they defend themselves with the "knowledge" that they're right and anyone who believes in God is wrong.
The existence of God is NOT a fact, so yes, I will take offense to those that present it as such. As the arguement stands, both sides can't be right, therefore they each are going to believe that the other is wrong. It's the only way it can be.


Quote:
I hate those people, and I really want to beat them all with a hail of bullets. [/B]
A fine example of that so called tolerance of those different than you that religion teaches. You should be ashamed of yourself for making a comment like that. I don't believe in God, yet I believe we are all entitled to what we wish to believe.
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Old 06-22-2002, 12:45 AM   #36
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Originally posted by U2girl
So the atheists on, say, this forum are weird?

nope.

that was my title choice clearly, but my first statement was "well, not ALL of them...". i tried to describe the woman as best i could...her fanatical ways and her fundamental mannerisms were just a bit off color. i apologize if i worded it more poorly than i thought, i did not, by any means, mean to pass judgement on or categorize you.
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Old 06-22-2002, 06:34 AM   #37
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there's big differences between being a non-believer, atheist, satanic, and anti-christ. It's what you believe. Believe is what you want to believe, while fact is what you believe you see. So as a -matter- of- factly speaking, doesn't believe in the same God doesn't make you an atheist, and doesn't believe in christ the son of God also doesn't make you an atheist, and don't believe in organized religion also doesn't make you atheist. Satanism was started to plea against the first human, Adam, and then when the offspring of that first human resents christianity, that's when the church of satan revived. It's just a matter of belief, to endorse religion or to exercise freedom of belief in a secular state. All are equal before God, even those who doesn't belong to the same faith in believing God. All human are equal before God even those who doesn't believe in, or even more who goes against, God. Engels and Marx are atheist, even so they didn't call theirself atheist, they just plainly doesn't care and doesn't even think that there is a God or there isn't any. Anthony Lavey grew up in an orthodox catholics family, he grew up hating everything christianity have. Gandhi was a very religious and spritual human, he practices spiritual lights that can't be claimed solely by any religion in the world. And atheist isn't weird, certain human are weird. Does anyone of you dare to say that Jerry Falwell is not weird?

get along, that's the key

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Old 06-22-2002, 09:03 AM   #38
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Well said FallenAngel! Very well said indeed.
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Old 06-22-2002, 08:15 PM   #39
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atheists are weird....
but, so are people....
dammit, that means i'm weird!
god-dammit-fuckin'-hell! argh!
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Old 06-24-2002, 01:38 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zooropa


Why is that an invalid arguement? There is no hard evidence of God's existence, that fact alone is Intrinsic to having 'faith' or 'belief'. I believe that Man created God to explain the world around him, therefore God IS pretend. That arguement is not invalid if you don't believe in God.
The argument is invalid. It's arguing from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy. (Arguing from ignorance is basically saying that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.) While you may believe that God is pretend, it can hardly be construed as fact. It is your belief, which is just as valid as everyone else's. Whether or not you believe in God (or any other issue, for that matter) has no bearing on the validity of any argument.



Quote:

The existence of God is NOT a fact, so yes, I will take offense to those that present it as such.
As such, the nonexistance of God is also not a fact, and I take offense to those who construe it as such.


Quote:

A fine example of that so called tolerance of those different than you that religion teaches. You should be ashamed of yourself for making a comment like that. I don't believe in God, yet I believe we are all entitled to what we wish to believe.
Ashamed? Why? You assume that I follow a religion. The fact is I do not. I follow logic and experience, and I hate self-righteous strong atheists.
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