blueyedpoet
Refugee
...it's my turn to feel important...ask away....I'm also a philosophy student at UCLA
Ask the Taoist Christian who believes in string-theory
- Thread starter blueyedpoet
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
TiaraGurl
War Child
Do you think the elegant universe is a good book for the lay person?
Ft. Worth Frog
Acrobat
Is Michio Kaku worth reading? Is he respected in his field?
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
From what I've learned about Taoism...
When under attack, a stereotypical Taoist will fight, but a stereotypical Christian will pray.
Which one are you?
When under attack, a stereotypical Taoist will fight, but a stereotypical Christian will pray.
Which one are you?
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
What is the lay explaination of string theory?
How do you use Taoism to modify Christianity?
How do you use Taoism to modify Christianity?
Se7en
Rock n' Roll Doggie
do you have any suggestions in general for books about space/physics/evolution etc. that would be good for the layperson?
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
You believe in a theory ~ is your belief in string theory just that, a belief, since it is at the moment untestable.
the iron horse
Rock n' Roll Doggie
"...ask away....I'm also a philosophy student at UCLA"
What do you believe?
What is your faith?
What do you believe?
What is your faith?
blueyedpoet
Refugee
Q: Do you think the elegant universe is a good book for the lay person?
A: Yes...if you're really "lay" rent the PBS documentary on DVD. The author explains his book in very easy to understand terms. Plus, it has great special effects.
Of course the book is more informative, and a bit more difficult to follow. One of the great things about Brian Greene is he is at the cutting edge of physics, and yet he can explain it to the common man so easily. That's true genius.
Q:Is Michio Kaku worth reading? Is he respected in his field?
A: Yes Kaku is worth reading...Hyperspace is an intriguing book. Yes Kaku is respected by other string-theorists, but physicists who fall in line with the likes of Hawking, don't.
Q: From what I've learned about Taoism...
When under attack, a stereotypical Taoist will fight, but a stereotypical Christian will pray.
Which one are you?
A: The Taoist scriptures, which read much more like poetry, do not have a lot to offer specifically on war and peace. I find it hard to believe though that a Taoist would rush into war. The tao is the spiritual force that moves us and within us. Taoists are not likely to rush into anything. Especially since there is this idea that the best results come from acting without acting.
Anyways, like Jesus I do not believe in violence. Well, that is to say I do not believe violence solves anything. An eye for an eye is no way to live.
Q:
What is the lay explaination of string theory?
Basically, behind every single object there are sub-atomic particles..eh, nevermind. Essentially, everything in this universe (including the fabric of this universe) is comprised of vibrating strings. the vibration of any sort of collection of strings is what gives objects different characteristics. i like to think that each material object (even immaterial perhaps) is like a different orchasteral piece.
How do you use Taoism to modify Christianity?
I don't modify Christ's teachings, nor do I modify taoist teachings. they supplement each other. jesus said that in order to gain the kingdom of heaven we must become child-like. lao tzu writes that we must return back to the child state (the uncarved block) to become at peace with the tao. this is just one example of many bits of teachings that go hand in hand. often times i understand the Tao Te Ching better because of a piece of bibical scipture, and vica versa.
A: Yes...if you're really "lay" rent the PBS documentary on DVD. The author explains his book in very easy to understand terms. Plus, it has great special effects.
Of course the book is more informative, and a bit more difficult to follow. One of the great things about Brian Greene is he is at the cutting edge of physics, and yet he can explain it to the common man so easily. That's true genius.
Q:Is Michio Kaku worth reading? Is he respected in his field?
A: Yes Kaku is worth reading...Hyperspace is an intriguing book. Yes Kaku is respected by other string-theorists, but physicists who fall in line with the likes of Hawking, don't.
Q: From what I've learned about Taoism...
When under attack, a stereotypical Taoist will fight, but a stereotypical Christian will pray.
Which one are you?
A: The Taoist scriptures, which read much more like poetry, do not have a lot to offer specifically on war and peace. I find it hard to believe though that a Taoist would rush into war. The tao is the spiritual force that moves us and within us. Taoists are not likely to rush into anything. Especially since there is this idea that the best results come from acting without acting.
Anyways, like Jesus I do not believe in violence. Well, that is to say I do not believe violence solves anything. An eye for an eye is no way to live.
Q:
What is the lay explaination of string theory?
Basically, behind every single object there are sub-atomic particles..eh, nevermind. Essentially, everything in this universe (including the fabric of this universe) is comprised of vibrating strings. the vibration of any sort of collection of strings is what gives objects different characteristics. i like to think that each material object (even immaterial perhaps) is like a different orchasteral piece.
How do you use Taoism to modify Christianity?
I don't modify Christ's teachings, nor do I modify taoist teachings. they supplement each other. jesus said that in order to gain the kingdom of heaven we must become child-like. lao tzu writes that we must return back to the child state (the uncarved block) to become at peace with the tao. this is just one example of many bits of teachings that go hand in hand. often times i understand the Tao Te Ching better because of a piece of bibical scipture, and vica versa.
blueyedpoet
Refugee
Q: do you have any suggestions in general for books about space/physics/evolution etc. that would be good for the layperson?
The two books mentioned here are fantastic. Anything by Greene is going to be mind-blowing. To gain further perspective about the deep problems in physics i'd suggest reading commentary about quantum mechanics and general relativity...both views clash. The Tao of Physics is another great book!
Q:
You believe in a theory ~ is your belief in string theory just that, a belief, since it is at the moment untestable.
A: you son-of-a-bitch!!! how dare you question my beliefs and call them just a theory...
I think my answer to the next question will shed light on this.
The two books mentioned here are fantastic. Anything by Greene is going to be mind-blowing. To gain further perspective about the deep problems in physics i'd suggest reading commentary about quantum mechanics and general relativity...both views clash. The Tao of Physics is another great book!
Q:
You believe in a theory ~ is your belief in string theory just that, a belief, since it is at the moment untestable.
A: you son-of-a-bitch!!! how dare you question my beliefs and call them just a theory...
I think my answer to the next question will shed light on this.
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
I will chuck my two bits in and suggest a physics textbook ~ it may sound boring and tedious but there is often some really great and practical stuff in there that can harden your understanding and makes the more popular books a lot more interesting.
blueyedpoet
Refugee
Q's:What do you believe?
What is your faith?
A:
I read philosophers all the time who are convinced they have discovered the answer to some age-old question (ie. moral responsibility versus determinism, the existance of a perfect being) and yet what is funny is, I really haven't got a clue as to which philosopher I should be inclined to agree with. I haven't got a clue! I recently told one of my more conservative christian friends, "I don't really know anything!"
Last night however, sitting at Mimi's Cafe with my best friend, I attempted to articuate some formulation of my beliefs. Please note though, that I really don't know how realistic my views are. I understand that I truly don't have the answers. Basically, studying philosophy has really been a humble experience.
So, here it is:
Everything in this universe - the universe itself - is contained within a much larger "universe." This "universe" I shall refer to as a 'brane (short of membrane). The 'brane contains everything, and is timeless - it has always existed and always will. Our universe is but a slice of bread within a large loaf.
All the objects (material and "immaterial") are variations of tiny string like particles.
There is some correlation between this everlasting 'brane and our feeble notions of God.
At some point our universe began as a very tiny slice of bread, but then suddenly (for reasons not known to me, or any other reasonable person) it began to rapidly expand. Eventually, humans developed. Orignally, humanity had a very strong connection with "God" or the very essence of nature. Christians and Jews alike refer to this time as the Garden of Eden. Somehow, pride and greed took hold within the souls of these early humans. This created a rift between that spirit (or 'brane, or God). Nevertheless, as this spirit of perfection and divinity is benevolent, the true ways of this spirit have been taught to us by several amazing physical reconstructions of this divinity. Perhaps none more powerful and effective as jesus. When we choose to give up our rights, give in to the spirit, let go of our chains, we truly can reconnect back to this spirit. If this happens, once our bodies reach their capacity and we commit the act that we refer to as death, the strongest strings (our soul) can leave the limiting body behind and rejoin the 'brane. If our soul isn't at peace enough, then perhaps it isn't strong enough to leave behind the body, or maybe it just dies.
Gravity is much like this version of the soul. In relation to other forces (ie electrical magnetism) gravity seems to be a very weak force. However, string theorists have recently discovered that gravity isn't weak. The strings that comprise gravity are enclosed circles that can float outside of this universe's body....um, this is a very broad stroke.
Three great books with similar views, and a more elegant way of describing this position are, "The Story we Find ourselves in" by Pastor Brian McLaren (a sequel to his "A New Kind of Christian"), The Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet. It might sound foolish to read about the taoist philosophy within the framework of a cartoon character, but this really is at the very heart of Taoism...being an uncarved block..or child-like.
What is your faith?
A:
I read philosophers all the time who are convinced they have discovered the answer to some age-old question (ie. moral responsibility versus determinism, the existance of a perfect being) and yet what is funny is, I really haven't got a clue as to which philosopher I should be inclined to agree with. I haven't got a clue! I recently told one of my more conservative christian friends, "I don't really know anything!"
Last night however, sitting at Mimi's Cafe with my best friend, I attempted to articuate some formulation of my beliefs. Please note though, that I really don't know how realistic my views are. I understand that I truly don't have the answers. Basically, studying philosophy has really been a humble experience.
So, here it is:
Everything in this universe - the universe itself - is contained within a much larger "universe." This "universe" I shall refer to as a 'brane (short of membrane). The 'brane contains everything, and is timeless - it has always existed and always will. Our universe is but a slice of bread within a large loaf.
All the objects (material and "immaterial") are variations of tiny string like particles.
There is some correlation between this everlasting 'brane and our feeble notions of God.
At some point our universe began as a very tiny slice of bread, but then suddenly (for reasons not known to me, or any other reasonable person) it began to rapidly expand. Eventually, humans developed. Orignally, humanity had a very strong connection with "God" or the very essence of nature. Christians and Jews alike refer to this time as the Garden of Eden. Somehow, pride and greed took hold within the souls of these early humans. This created a rift between that spirit (or 'brane, or God). Nevertheless, as this spirit of perfection and divinity is benevolent, the true ways of this spirit have been taught to us by several amazing physical reconstructions of this divinity. Perhaps none more powerful and effective as jesus. When we choose to give up our rights, give in to the spirit, let go of our chains, we truly can reconnect back to this spirit. If this happens, once our bodies reach their capacity and we commit the act that we refer to as death, the strongest strings (our soul) can leave the limiting body behind and rejoin the 'brane. If our soul isn't at peace enough, then perhaps it isn't strong enough to leave behind the body, or maybe it just dies.
Gravity is much like this version of the soul. In relation to other forces (ie electrical magnetism) gravity seems to be a very weak force. However, string theorists have recently discovered that gravity isn't weak. The strings that comprise gravity are enclosed circles that can float outside of this universe's body....um, this is a very broad stroke.
Three great books with similar views, and a more elegant way of describing this position are, "The Story we Find ourselves in" by Pastor Brian McLaren (a sequel to his "A New Kind of Christian"), The Tao of Pooh and the Te of Piglet. It might sound foolish to read about the taoist philosophy within the framework of a cartoon character, but this really is at the very heart of Taoism...being an uncarved block..or child-like.
blueyedpoet
Refugee
i completely agree with you a_wanderer...i'm glad you respond to yourself as a wanderer...i often think i'm just a vagabond
Ft. Worth Frog
Acrobat
Hyperspace is a good book, but since that is the only book I have read on the subject I had no idea whether or not the ideas were reputable.
Se7en
Rock n' Roll Doggie
A_Wanderer said:
i've had high school physics, two semester of college physics, and a semester of electronics. i don't think i'm THAT much of a layperson.
a good suggestion nonetheless.
RosieHS
The Fly
My husband is a Taoist and I find that much of the Taoist philosophy (doctrine) directly applies to me. Until recently I followed no organized religious congregations. Last year I joined a Unitarian church and I have forever changed. The services are moving and everyone there is tolerant and welcoming of others' religious philosophies.
blueyedpoet
Refugee
taoism just makes sense....it isn't something that is radical...let me find some moving passages....thanks for sharing RosieHS
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I liked how you linked Jesus' "like a child" teachings with Lao Tzu's. My question is - do your Christian beliefs ever contradict with your Taoist beliefs? If so, what are some examples?
blueyedpoet
Refugee
"Who can (make) the muddy water (clear)? Let it be still, and it will gradually become clear. Who can secure the condition of rest? Let movement go on, and the condition of rest will gradually arise."
how true!
no, i have yet to contradictions...i have found complications that one must work out on their own
how true!
no, i have yet to contradictions...i have found complications that one must work out on their own
blueyedpoet
Refugee
"Thus it is that a great state, by condescending to small states, gains them for itself; and that small states, by abasing themselves to a great state, win it over to them. In the one case the abasement leads to gaining adherents, in the other case to procuring favour."
Jesus said: "So you want first place? Then take the last place."
Jesus said: "So you want first place? Then take the last place."
RosieHS
The Fly
81
True words are not fancy.
Fancy words are not true.
The good do not debate.
Debaters are not good.
The one who really knows is not broadly learned,
The extensively learned do not really know.
The sage does not hord,
She gives people her surplus.
Giving her surplus to others she is enriched.
The way of Heaven is to help and not harm.
-Tao Te Ching
-Lao Tzu
-translation by Charles Muller circa 1991
True words are not fancy.
Fancy words are not true.
The good do not debate.
Debaters are not good.
The one who really knows is not broadly learned,
The extensively learned do not really know.
The sage does not hord,
She gives people her surplus.
Giving her surplus to others she is enriched.
The way of Heaven is to help and not harm.
-Tao Te Ching
-Lao Tzu
-translation by Charles Muller circa 1991
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blueyedpoet
Refugee
isn't it amazing how the tao just slowly creeps along and hits you? those words are so true, so beautiful, and so inspirational
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
RosieHS said:
Sorry to go a bit off topic bepoet, but i'll get back to you {yopu might even enjoy part odf my thoughts here}....Rosie tell me a little bit more about how you're finding the Unitatrian churh. I'm very slowly considering the thought of going to one.
I'm an ex-Catholic/Christian in that I haven't beleived in a long time that Christ is "the Son of God" as they teach it. And i gave up The Church for other reasons as well in my late teens.
To me it's become more like Jesus developed a 'pipeline' [the metaphore is useful as you'll see for my explaination] to [some of the names other than <stereotypically picture of God>]- The Source/ The Power/ Ground Of All Being/ Infinite Loving Creation/ etc that had less obsticles in it that many of us still have. Thus his miracles derive from the Source, but as Zen Buddhism would say are not the main point, but the Love & Compassion that he manifested are. The other stuff is a periphial.
He is a son of God {or the term The Godhead} just the way all men are and all women are daughters of God {The Godhead}.
And having been exposed as a child to other religions through stories & Art/Crafts of Native Americans/ Africans and the Japaneese I absorbed a big dose of Aninmism by sheer osmosis, sinse this was often present in the stories amd some art. There was nothing to counter it, so to speak. Plus I had a great proffesor in College who taugh both Social Change through Non-violence & World Religion in our school. I took both of those classes.
ANd I'm also have always been intersted in the Sciences.
So I describe myself now as a Quantum-Animist-New Ager
do ya think Rosie there just might be a little space for me at my local UU Church?
And bepoet...
Oh...? Hawkins' dosen't beleive in String Theory?
I just read [don't remember where] an article that more physistists are being to really question ST these days.
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blueyedpoet
Refugee
hawkins from what i understand believes in quantum physics...it seems that the tide is with M-theory (string theory)
blueyedpoet
Refugee
then again, i'm not a physicist (nor am i sure i just spelt that word correctly)
foray
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Hyperspace is a really easy and fun read; I couldn't put it down.
blueeyedpoet:
Regarding string theory, define "string" please. I still haven't grasped this bit. Is it a 'string' of vibration/waves, or what.
foray
blueeyedpoet:
Regarding string theory, define "string" please. I still haven't grasped this bit. Is it a 'string' of vibration/waves, or what.
foray
blueyedpoet
Refugee
sounds like you understand....they are so tiny....atomne string :: earth:a single tree in central park
ne string :: earth:a single tree in central park
A_Wanderer
ONE love, blood, life
We are made up of atoms, atoms in turn are made up of protons, neutrons and electrons. Protons and Neutrons are made up of quarks. When considering the most basic parts of the universe we can consider them to be single point particles ~ or we can consider them to be one dimensional, String theory is a way of describing these things in terms of them being strings ~ and it can do quite well in predicting and modelling behaviour of certain particles but the formulations are still perturbative and there is no definitive experiment to prove or disprove Strings as the model because we are dealing with impossibly small to measure scales. Certainly investigation has yielded some very complex and useful mathematical tools but right now it lacks the experiments and observations that support theories like General Relativity or Quantum Mechanics ~ even though string theory s considered to quite possibly be how to reconcile the often contradictary nature of those two seemingly valid theories and their scales.foray said:
A string is a one dimensional object that vibrates, they can be considered open (i.e. a straight line that would be like | ) or closed (closed line becomes a loop O ), these strings vibrate ~ they can only vibrate in specific ways and that ties in with harmonic oscillation ~ and it is these vibrations and the way that the string behaves that determines it's properties and what type of thing it is.
a handy reference site: http://superstringtheory.com/
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foray
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Thanks.
blueyedpoet
Refugee
that face is not supposed to be there...i forgot that sometimes certain marks make faces....i'm just doing an analogy..thanks for the better elaboration aw.....i'm so tired right now...just got back from SD show.....the spirit/tao/god/jah was in the house tonight!
