Ashcroft bans DOJ gay pride event

[melon]

?Homosexuality is immoral and dangerous behavior and taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize its promotion,? said Rios. ?I am so grateful that Attorney General Ashcroft has taken a courageous step to stand against the pressure of the politically correct elite. This is a welcome departure from the Clinton years.?

I'm sure they'll happily take government money in the form of faith-based charities.

I don't know why fanatical Christian groups even get media time like this. This furthers my example of the media purposely generating anger and fearmongering.

I should create a PAC that is inflammatory, so I can get media attention.

Melon

 

[nbcrusader]

This furthers my example of the media purposely generating anger and fearmongering.

I should create a PAC that is inflammatory, so I can get media attention.

Sadly, this is how too many groups get coverage and how too many media outlets get ratings.

 

[melon]

Call me crazy, but I don't think the news should be about ratings. But I guess everything is a commodity these days. "Vive la capitalisme!"

CBC and BBC News are a welcome change from U.S. news, although I will freely admit that none are perfect.

Melon

 

[HeartlandGirl]

In an ideal world, all groups would be treated equally. So that means that everyday should be Gay / Black / Woman / Etc. Pride Day, just as everyday is Straight White Male Pride Day. But the powers that be don't like that; inequality is what drives humanity.

Melon

Absolutely. Throw some economic factors in, and it gets even more unequal.

 

[deep]

I would like to see a campaign in 2004 something like

"An America for ALL Americans"

Throw the extremists out.

 

[deep]

At the 2004 GOP convention in NYC

Ashcroft and his prayer warriors will have an opportunity to see America's best theatre.

2003 Tonys: As gay as it gets

The 57th Tony Awards show was a big night for gays on Broadway, with top honors going to gay-themed productions and artists relishing the openness that has marked this theatrical season. The Best Play award went to Take Me Out, a drama about a star baseball player revealing that he is gay, and Best Musical honors went to Hairspray, whose leading actor, Harvey Fierstein, plays the gravel-voiced mother of the heroine in drag.

Many of the Tony winners rode a wave of awards-night euphoria Sunday to unabashedly address their gayness or to comment on the phenomenon to the Radio City Music Hall crowd. The issue was raised early in the broadcast, hosted by X-Men star Hugh Jackman, when Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman, partners in both songwriting and romance, stepped up to receive the Tony for best original score for Hairspray. "We're not allowed to get married, but I want to declare I love you and I'd like to live with you the rest of my life," said Shaiman, who then kissed Wittman. Joe Mantello, who won the Tony for his direction of Take Me Out, said, "I think I just saw two guys kiss on CBS, which is cool." Denis O'Hare, honored as best featured actor for his comic portrayal of a gay accountant suddenly enamored of baseball in Take Me Out, said later: "It's Gay Night out there. It's amazing."

Theater has long been an accepting and nurturing environment for gays, and many in the parade of Tony winners took note. Fierstein, who became a hero among gays after writing and starring in the gay-themed play Torch Song Trilogy to earn two Tonys 20 years ago, said he felt honored to work with all the caring people in the theater world. "I want to have your babies," the Hairspray star joked in accepting his award for best lead performance in a musical.

 

[beegee]

But again...just because I disapprove, it doesn't automatically mean that I have contempt.

i think this sarcastic remark was directed at me...melon, honey, if you knew me personally, you would understand what i am saying. to be honest, this thread stayed on my mind all day. i am hurt by all of the accusations. whether or not you find it hard to believe, my disapproval does NOT equal contempt. not even close.

first, i called my ex-husband's best friend. a man who, ten years ago, chose to come out to me before he came out to my husband because he knew i would be honest with him. he laughed at the idea of my homophobia. my disapproval he understands, but my contempt, never. we are friends. we are family. then, i called my ex-husband. a man i was married to for eight years. my daughter's father. a man who left me for the man of his dreams. a man i will love until the end of time. the only man on this planet that i would do anything for.

both of these men know of and understand my disapproval. neither one considers me to be homophobic or ignorant. or filled with contempt. they respect my opinion and accept my love, with or without my approval, just as i respect and accept theirs.

and yours.

 

[deep]

I am sorry that your husband left you for somebody else.

Rejection, betrayal is painful.

Many husbands leave their wives for other women.

Many divorced people do not approve of their exs new relationship.

You have very good friends.

 

[Mrs. Edge]

BG, I am sorry to hear about your husband, and I am glad you don't view homosexuals with contempt...but can you answer me something?

If you suposedly dissapprove of homosexuality (I still can't understand what there is to dissapprove of), why is it that in the "I tongue kissed a woman" thread, you were totally impressed with those female friends who had kissed other women, and you even went so far as to say "when someone admits to more than kissing, then I'll be impressed" and "love on every level is wonderful".

Doesn't sound much like dissapproval to me. Or is it just a double standard for women vs men?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Bono's American Wife, Pax, melon, FizzingWhizzbees, and so on...well said, all of you. .

Bonosgirl84, you asked how I know Ashcroft is homophobic.

Well, like Bono's American Wife pointed out:

"Mr. Ashcroft has admitted in the past that he DOES have a problem with homosexuality"

Angela

 

[joyfulgirl]

I'm sorry about your heartbreaking experience, bonosgirl.

In my family we had someone close who was gay but felt he couldn't come out in the extremely repressed community in which I grew up. So he hung himself instead. I am probably the only one who wishes he had left his family and found a man to love instead, so he could truly be himself and live his life as freely as the rest of us have done.

To 'disapprove of' to me implies more than disagreeing with; it implies passing judgment and taking a bit of a moral high ground. If I were gay and someone said they disapproved but that they loved me anyway, I would probably choose to not have them in my life, even if it was a member of my family (which it most likely would be). Because I choose to surround myself with people who support me, not disapprove of the things I cannot change about myself, such as the sexual orientation God gave me.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I am sorry that your husband left you for somebody else.

Rejection, betrayal is painful.

Many husbands leave their wives for other women.

Many divorced people do not approve of their exs new relationship.

You have very good friends.

Ditto.

Angela

 

[sharky]

To 'disapprove of' to me implies more than disagreeing with; it implies passing judgment and taking a bit of a moral high ground. If I were gay and someone said they disapproved but that they loved me anyway, I would probably choose to not have them in my life, even if it was a member of my family (which it most likely would be). Because I choose to surround myself with people who support me, not disapprove of the things I cannot change about myself, such as the sexual orientation God gave me.

I disagree. Do you parents agree with everything you do? Do your friends support every decision you make? I would find it boring if I didn't have someone saying to me "well, why did you do that?" or just be my yes men. You can still support a person even if you don't support their romantic life. How many of us have had boyfriends/girlfriends are parents disapproved of? doens't mean they don't love us. Being gay is one of many things in a person's life. You can disagree with the fact that someone is gay but still love them as a person.

As for Gay Pride Day, I think its ok. It at least makes people aware of the issue and educates us all. Same with Black History Month, the Puerto Rican parade, St. Patrick's Day, etc. etc. Some people are racist so do we stop black history month? Some people look down on beer so do we stop St. Pat's Day? We need to have these things to remind us that we are all unique -- to be the same would be boring.

Oh and melon -- in response to your comments about the woman in the article: If she sounds like a bigot, so be it. Its not that more papers needed to be sold but rather, as journalists, we have a duty to show both sides of an issue regardless of our personal opinion. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[melon]

Being gay is one of many things in a person's life. You can disagree with the fact that someone is gay but still love them as a person.

Just as I can disagree with the fact that someone is black or Jewish or Muslim or Christian or female or anyone who isn't white and male...

...and still love them as a person. After all, there is so much more to someone's life than being black or Jewish or Muslim or Christian or female....



Melon

 

[melon]

Oh and melon -- in response to your comments about the woman in the article: If she sounds like a bigot, so be it. Its not that more papers needed to be sold but rather, as journalists, we have a duty to show both sides of an issue regardless of our personal opinion. Don't shoot the messenger.

"Both sides of the issue"? Well, why doesn't journalism find the most hysterical fringe group possible? I had never heard of this group before this, and, likely, no one else did either. Does journalism give this much credence to the KKK or the Army of God when it comes to minority or women's issues?

Melon

 

[joyfulgirl]

I disagree. Do you parents agree with everything you do? Do your friends support every decision you make? I would find it boring if I didn't have someone saying to me "well, why did you do that?" or just be my yes men. You can still support a person even if you don't support their romantic life. How many of us have had boyfriends/girlfriends are parents disapproved of? doens't mean they don't love us. Being gay is one of many things in a person's life. You can disagree with the fact that someone is gay but still love them as a person.

Being gay isn't something that you do. It's something you are. You can't love someone 'except for that gay part.' There is no gay part. Being gay isn't just about one's romantic life. Again, if I were gay and someone didn't 'approve' then they wouldn't approve of me as a human being, being born exactly the way I am and being unable to change the essence of who I am. And that is not acceptable. It's bad enough being around people who are not supportive of your decisions, let alone the things you have no choice about.

 

[deep]

Gov't Changes Mind on Gay Employee Event


By CURT ANDERSON
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 10, 2003; 7:20 PM


WASHINGTON - Attorney General John Ashcroft will allow gay and lesbian Justice Department employees to hold an annual gathering at agency headquarters if they foot the bill, a move critics said Tuesday was a clumsy reversal of a previous decision.

Officials with the group DOJ Pride said last week that they were told the awards ceremony could not be held in the agency's Great Hall next Wednesday.

But agency spokesman Mark Corallo said the intention was not to block the group from holding the event, only to make it clear it would not be officially sponsored by the department. That means the group's members must pay any costs themselves.

"They will not be officially sponsored this year, just like every other group," Corallo said. "They took that to mean they couldn't have the event."

Allison Nichol, vice president of DOJ Pride, disputed that. She said the organization was told clearly last week they could not hold the event in the Great Hall, the Justice Department courtyard or a conference room - even if they paid for it.

Still, Nichol said the group would welcome the change as a "partial reversal" of the previous ban while hoping that "they would be willing to sponsor this event." She also said other employee groups have in the past had their events sponsored.

Reports of the denial prompted outrage among gay and lesbian groups and from Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., who wrote an angry letter to Ashcroft questioning the Justice Department's commitment to fairness.

Lautenberg issued a statement Tuesday calling the new policy "the politics of a cover-up" and said he would urge hearings by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee into possible violations of civil rights stemming from the incident.

Ashcroft had promised during his Senate confirmation hearings in 2001 that he would continue to allow DOJ Pride to hold its event.

David Smith, spokesman for Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group in Washington, also praised the department for reversing what he called its previous "outright denial" of the event. But he said withdrawal of department sponsorship still represents a step backward.

"Sponsorship sends an important message to the employee group: that their work is valued," Smith said.

 

[megadrum2002]

i am very educated on the subject but aids spreads through any type of protection. Wearing a condom is not 100% safe against fighting std's. Aids was primarily spread through gay men 25 years of past but now is spreading through everyone. Please allow me to restate my same oppinion as before, i should not be looked at as a biggot for thinking homosexuallity is wrong. That is what i think and that is not being offensive. I have no problem with homosexualls as a person but i DO NOT approve of there behaviour.

 

[melon]

i am very educated on the subject but aids spreads through any type of protection. Wearing a condom is not 100% safe against fighting std's. Aids was primarily spread through gay men 25 years of past but now is spreading through everyone. Please allow me to restate my same oppinion as before, i should not be looked at as a biggot for thinking homosexuallity is wrong. That is what i think and that is not being offensive. I have no problem with homosexualls as a person but i DO NOT approve of there behaviour.

Damn...then if you were so "educated," then you'd realize that this statement about gay men and AIDS only applies to the U.S., and not the rest of the world, where it has been primarily transmitted through heterosexuals. Then you should also know that heterosexual black women are the fastest growing segment of AIDS infection today in the U.S.

But I don't know why you'd bring up AIDS, except to imply that homosexuals have brought some "gay plague" onto the rest of the world. But, I assure you, anyone who lives in a non-stop party with lots of promiscuous sex and drug use is statistically at higher risk for AIDS infection, regardless of sexuality.

I have no problem with ignorant people as a person, but I DO NOT approve of their behavior.

Melon

 

[melon]

1 vote to close this thread.

Since it appears that Asscroft has backpedaled ever so slightly (and we've ignored the fact entirely that, during his Senate confirmation hearing, that he *promised* he wouldn't discriminate by sexual orientation and to allow DOJ Pride to continue under his reign [but I guess that lies by Democrats who get blow jobs are more important lies]).

Now it just appears that this thread has become some not-so-touchy-feely thread where heterosexuals can get on their pulpit and start pontificating on their disapproval of homosexuals. Well, la-de-da. Who asked you?

There are too many reasons why I hate these threads.

Melon

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Being gay isn't something that you do. It's something you are. You can't love someone 'except for that gay part.' There is no gay part. Being gay isn't just about one's romantic life. Again, if I were gay and someone didn't 'approve' then they wouldn't approve of me as a human being, being born exactly the way I am and being unable to change the essence of who I am. And that is not acceptable. It's bad enough being around people who are not supportive of your decisions, let alone the things you have no choice about.

.

Thank you.

Originally posted by melon
Damn...then if you were so "educated," then you'd realize that this statement about gay men and AIDS only applies to the U.S., and not the rest of the world, where it has been primarily transmitted through heterosexuals. Then you should also know that heterosexual black women are the fastest growing segment of AIDS infection today in the U.S.

But I don't know why you'd bring up AIDS, except to imply that homosexuals have brought some "gay plague" onto the rest of the world. But, I assure you, anyone who lives in a non-stop party with lots of promiscuous sex and drug use is statistically at higher risk for AIDS infection, regardless of sexuality.

I have no problem with ignorant people as a person, but I DO NOT approve of their behavior.

Melon

Exactly.

Angela

 

[80sU2isBest]

I know I'm late to this party, but I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I usually stay away from these threads, but I did see some things I didn't agree with, so I'll mak my point.

Melon knows how I feel about homosexuality. He knows I think it's wrong. But Melon also knows (as much as a person can know from internet forum activity) that I don't condemn people for it or be mean to homosexuals. Admittedly, I don't know much about homosexuality and genes, or disposition toward homosexuality at birth or anything like that, so I don't really make judgment toward someone with homosexual feelings. However, I do believe that homosexual sexual activity is wrong.

That being said, I think that it is very possible to disapprove of someone's behavior, but still show love for them. When the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, he had great love and compassion for her, and his words freed her from a death sentence. He told her "neither do I judge thee". However, he didn't leave it at that. With his acceptance of her was a loving condemnation of her sin. He said "Neither do I judge thee. Go and sin no more."

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

I have no problem with ignorant people as a person, but I DO NOT approve of their behavior.

Melon

 

[Angela Harlem]

These threads go nowhere.