Are men feminists?

[redhotswami]

Irvine!!!! DC - Green line represent what what!

 

[Irvine511]

Irvine!!!! DC - Green line represent what what!

i am on the Green Line. every morning.

 

[Liesje]

It seems to me that many posts in this thread are defining feminism as equal rights for men and women?

I guess I've always understood feminism to be something above and beyond equal rights, like women need certain things more than men and certain things less because they are women and because it is somehow owed to them. In this sense, I've never been much of a feminist because arguing that I deserve special treatment because I'm a woman kind of succombs to the whole stereotype of being a lesser person and not being able to fend for myself.

I believe in equitable, not necessarily equal, rights. For example, women's restrooms need more stalls than men's. To me, this is more common sense speaking than "feminism". I don't have this "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" attitiude that I see coming (usually unintentionally) from most of the feminists I know.

 

[pgv]

It seems to me that many posts in this thread are defining feminism as equal rights for men and women?

I guess I've always understood feminism to be something above and beyond equal rights, like women need certain things more than men and certain things less because they are women and because it is somehow owed to them. In this sense, I've never been much of a feminist because arguing that I deserve special treatment because I'm a woman kind of succombs to the whole stereotype of being a lesser person and not being able to fend for myself.

I believe in equitable, not necessarily equal, rights. For example, women's restrooms need more stalls than men's. To me, this is more common sense speaking than "feminism". I don't have this "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" attitiude that I see coming (usually unintentionally) from most of the feminists I know.

I didn't realise feminists went round saying "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" - i thought they said things more along the lines of 'men and women deserve equal treatment, in the workplace and out of it' etc.
Or am i wrong?

 

[Irvine511]

I didn't realise feminists went round saying "woe is me the women, I deserve preferential treatment" - i thought they said things more along the lines of 'men and women deserve equal treatment, in the workplace and out of it' etc.
Or am i wrong?

that was my understanding.

i think a feminist might argue that women have certain needs that aren't historically addressed -- one example, needing well lit paths and visible phones on college campuses, or that working mothers might have need of a lactation room at their places of business. stuff like that.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

Well, to get to the original question, yes, I do believe men can be feminists. They may not claim they are feminists, but they certainly prove this in their actions and deeds.

Bono, to me, seems like a feminist. He's married to a smart, sharp, kick ass woman and is very proud of her accomplishments. There are men women in the U2 organization who are doing a lot more than answering phones and fetching coffee. And I'm sure Bono wants his daughters to have the same opportunities in life as his sons.

And women can be major anti-feminists and mysognists. Take Dr. Laura and Phyllis Schlafly-please.

 

[pgv]

Bono, to me, seems like a feminist. He's married to a smart, sharp, kick ass woman and is very proud of her accomplishments. There are men women in the U2 organization who are doing a lot more than answering phones and fetching coffee. And I'm sure Bono wants his daughters to have the same opportunities in life as his sons.

I wonder if Bono actually considers himself a feminist though? I hope so, I have a greater respect for men that do.

 

[INDY500]

And women can be major anti-feminists and mysognists. Take Dr. Laura and Phyllis Schlafly-please.

So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?

 

[Bono's shades]

So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?

Have you ever read anything about or by either of these two women? Schafley's whole shtick is that women who have careers are destroying America. And we just had a whole thread recently on Dr. Laura you ought to check out.

It's not that they are violating some non-existent narrow code you have made up in your mind. They don't believe in the core of what feminism is about.

 

[BonosSaint]

Attorney and career activist Phyllis Schafley? Guess she's destroying America. Or is it only other women's careers who are destroying America? Oh, yeah. I forgot. Her husband said it was OK.

That being said, even childless, there's nothing I'd rather than not to have to work on the outside for a living. If she'll support me, I will gladly leave the workplace.

 

[redhotswami]

I wonder if Bono actually considers himself a feminist though? I hope so, I have a greater respect for men that do.

I think I read a somewhere Bono saying he was a feminist...and then referencing the "woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" lyric in tttyaatw.

 

[redhotswami]

i am on the Green Line. every morning.

i'm from columbia heights

 

[martha]

So feminism is monolithic in structure and thought, with a strict orthodoxy, and a code of purism that doesn't allow for dissent?

Schlafly is no feminist; she's a hypocrite, a mysogynist, and a homophobe.

She doesn't dissent; she loathes.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think I missed the post you are responding to...but are you referring to single sex education?

Actually the danger right now is the current education system. It has been proven many times over that women & men do better in single sex classes. AND, research has also shown that the sooner the sexes are separated (like, in first level education), the better, due to the nature of the interactions between them.

Now, reforming the system to promote SSEd might result in again a separate but equal problem...

Anyway, sadly it appears as though women's colleges may diminish. Many are at least considering going co-ed...and Randolph Macon Woman's College, one that definitely stood out, has ultimately decided to do so.

Oh and by the way, the english dictionary actually defines feminism as supporting equal rights (not just promotion of women), and is not limited to sex, but also includes race and others...I wasn't expecting that definition!

I think that SSEd is a fine choice for a proper education, I myself was in a state school and got a co-ed; I found that there were times when the subject matter - especially in the humanities subjects was skewed and really disengaged me; the danger is compromising co-ed education by emphasisng methods that work well for girls at the expense of boys; and a lack of male teachers seems like it could be part of that.

 

[pgv]

I think I read a somewhere Bono saying he was a feminist...and then referencing the "woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" lyric in tttyaatw.

Aah yes I had forgotten about that! It makes Bono more attractive, knowing this.
And I love that quote anyway, so true.

 

[Irvine511]

Schlafly is no feminist; she's a hypocrite, a mysogynist, and a homophobe.

She doesn't dissent; she loathes.

and her gay son is quite well known in the NYC Leather Bar circuit.

i mean, i'm just saying.

 

[Irvine511]

i'm from columbia heights

we might be neighbors.

 

[martha]

and her gay son is quite well known in the NYC Leather Bar circuit.

i mean, i'm just saying.

He's got to be a self-loathing, miserable guy. He's her assistant when she's working.

 

[redhotswami]

the danger is compromising co-ed education by emphasisng methods that work well for girls at the expense of boys; and a lack of male teachers seems like it could be part of that.

I'm not sure what the specific methods are that are used differently in co-ed & ssed...the makeup of the classroom tends to set the tone...unless of course if it is a lab where people do their own thing. bc even in ssed colleges for women, there are male professors, administrators, advisors, etc...i haven't really looked into how subject matter is taught differently though.

i do agree that a lack of male teachers can have prolonged effects on the male students...but then again, i think there has been more female teachers in the field for quite some time now.

 

[Irvine511]

He's got to be a self-loathing, miserable guy. He's her assistant when she's working.

i once saw her on a talk show, and someone asked her about how she had once written that gay children are the result of bad parenting, the whole "weak fathers, overbearing mother" Freudian-lite explanation.

the question was: "how did you teach your son to be gay?"

it was a great moment.

 

[martha]

i once saw her on a talk show, and someone asked her about how she had once written that gay children are the result of bad parenting, the whole "weak fathers, overbearing mother" Freudian-lite explanation.

the question was: "how did you teach your son to be gay?"

it was a great moment.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Many guys can talk a good game, but when it comes down to it behavior and actions are what's truly meaningful. I have known some guys who I thought were feminists in the way that I define it, but certain aspects of their personalities reveal themselves, and well...You can be a feminist in theory but not in practice. It's just really shocking and surprising (and infuriating) to me how many younger men have sexist attitudes, and I wonder if that comes from their upbringing or from elsewhere.

As for me I believe feminism is all about freedom and choice and having choices. I truly do admire women who choose motherhood as their sole career if they can afford that financially-it's a very important career and job ( ultimately the most important, I think). Feminism is about supporting each other, and each other's choices.

 

[verte76]

In the US women may have equal rights on paper for the most part, but in reality there is still a huge gap... And I will voice that until the gap is closed.

Me too. I'm a professional protestor.

 

[pgv]

As for me I believe feminism is all about freedom and choice and having choices. I truly do admire women who choose motherhood as their sole career if they can afford that financially-it's a very important career and job ( ultimately the most important, I think). Feminism is about supporting each other, and each other's choices.

Thats a brilliant definition of feminism and I totally agree with you, its not about 'women are better than men!' or 'all women should who raise their kids are weak!' but 'lets support women in everything they do.'

 

[angelordevil]

'lets support women in everything they do.'

Women are still in the process of catching-up, and in too many walks of life, it's a crawl at best. Think of our governments, a place that's supposedly a reflection of who we are as a society.

 

[Anu]

I've been away from FYM, but this is a Great Thread!!!

Feminism = the belief in equal rights between genders.

Not an unclear definition IMHO, but one that's perhaps not *precise* enough for some, and that lead to the radical misdefinition of feminism by the far right.

feminism=manhating feminazi butch lesbian phallophobe

Dworkin and MacKinnon didn't help us out, either, by defining all heterosex as rape. And then there's the Antioch Rules . . .

But missteps, mistakes, and misdefinitions aside, feminism is a fabulous movement and should be required reading and living for any man.

It's why we do housework and childcare. It's why we're pro-choice. It's why we respect our spouses rights to "have a life" of their own--even and especially including close friendships with other men.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

I wrote an article about feminism. I'll have to find it and post it here.

 

[pgv]

I wrote an article about feminism. I'll have to find it and post it here.

That would be really interesting, please do!

 

[Golightly Grrl]

That would be really interesting, please do!

It may take me a while to find the disk, but once I find it, I'll post it. I had it published in a school publication.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I want to read it