Are Manners Dead?

[MrsSpringsteen]

One thing that really bugs me about this article..the whole "harried single parent" thing, as if the "good old fashioned" family had the most polite, mannered parents and children- it didn't and it doesn't. I would think most people, single or otherwise, would take the time to teach their kids manners-shouldn't that be one of parents' most important jobs? And how much time does it really take?

And adults need to take responsibility for our own lack of manners, and not blame it on technology, harried lifestyle, or some other silly excuse. It takes a small effort to hold a door or carry out some other common courtesy.

People are afraid to speak up when they witness rudeness, I do sometimes but other times I don't. Honestly I am afraid of people sometimes, if they can be that rude what else are they capable of?

Yes we are all human and we get angry, emotional, frustrated., whatever..but manners still count for something, don't they?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/5098058/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news

 

[BonosSaint]

A topic to my heart, Mrs. S. Are manners dead? Probably on life support. I think there is a sense of entitlement now that was less evident before. Parents encouraging kids to shriek in your ear at a baseball game and then when you politely ask the parents and when you ask the parents that they be a little more quiet, the parents encourage them to scream more. This has happened to me three separate times, with the kids actually quieting down and saying "it bothers them", but the parents then actually urging them to keep it up. I can even feel the kids' discomfort. There were times I was afraid for my physical safety just when I was asking for what I thought was common courtesy.

It's not just parents and kids. My friends and I were brought up well (not that I am immune from being insufferably rude on occasion) I don't know that there is much remedy for it but to play their game (and I do sometimes). But there is just no consideration anymore for anyone else outside of your immediate circle.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I stopped sending birthday and Christmas money to both of my sisters' kids because neither they nor the kids ever acknowledged it. There was more to it than that but that was a big part of it. I really struggled with the decision because they are excellent parents and genuinely very busy but finally I stopped because it was bothering me too much.

I don't know if I fully agree that people in general are ruder, especially as compared with the 'nuclear family' of days past. I think people today are bolder and more confrontational which I see as generally a good thing if it's done appropriately. While those 20-30 years ago in some cases may have appeared to be more polite in the romanticized way we tend to look at the past I think the surface politeness oftentimes masked something more--anger, insecurity, passivity, etc. I don't think avoidance of confrontation necessarily equals harmony.

But certainly things like obnoxious use of cell phones and being too busy to write or call to say thank you for a gift is a reflection of our more complicated lives today. But if I still have time to write the check, buy the card and the stamp and put it in the mail, I'd settle for a thank you sent by email over nothing at all.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I do agree w/ the "sense of entitlement " aspect of why teenagers (it's adults too though) are rude. The attitude seems to be "I deserve this, I want it now" and the heck w/ any consideration for others.

Thank you and you're welcome are tough enough to get to hear , never mind notes, etc.

 

[nbcrusader]

Manners are a simple way of (i) showing care for the people around you and/or (ii) trying to minimize the burdens of your own behavior (however minor) on other people. I see the apparent loss of manners is probably a symptom of a larger problem. We have grown into a far more selfish society than our prior generations, with consumption being a much higher priority than ever.

I was looking at some old pictures my dad had spread out on his coffee table (with his Alzheimer's, its his way of keeping in touch with his memory). There was one picture taken during the late 60's/early 70's by a color television set. I realized that purchasing the television was a big event - one that you waited to do until you saved (after meeting all your other financial obligations). Today, children almost expect televisions of their own. The point being, current generations want things far sooner in life than prior generations.

I also see the idea of community eroding in many places. Coming home from work use to mean visiting with neighbors. For today's generation, our homes are more like cocoons. When I bought my first house, my wife and I noticed that people would park their car in the garage and close the garage door, before getting out of their car.

Manners should count for something. But the notion of what our level of concern should be has changed.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think maybe it is a symptom of a lack of human contact and connection, it seems sometimes like people don't even want that anymore. Technology can be dehumanizing to a certain extent, and sometimes we want to block people out with it. Sometimes I do.

I try to force myself to make an effort to help people when I see they might need it. A few weeks ago I saw a guy was struggling to get his suitcases through the subway turnstile and I stopped and offered to help him. He kind of muttered a reply and kept struggling, maybe it was the issue of God forbid having a female help him

I live in a suburb and only occasionally get into the city, but people are just as rude in suburbs.

 

[BonosSaint]

Reminds me of when I used to live in New York when I went to college. Stopped into a deli while one man pulled a knife on the owner. I stepped out quickly--coward that I was and was waiting on the corner for the light to change. The man holding the knife was suddenly behind me and I froze. When the light changed, he very politely said "Excuse me" before he passed me and crossed the street. A well brought up criminal. His mother would have been proud.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I try to force myself to make an effort to help people when I see they might need it. A few weeks ago I saw a guy was struggling to get his suitcases through the subway turnstile and I stopped and offered to help him. He kind of muttered a reply and kept struggling, maybe it was the issue of God forbid having a female help him

I remember two incidents from my NYC days that made an impression on me. In the first, I was on a rush-hour subway train. People packed like sardines. I noticed a man who had to be well into his 80s struggling to stand up with nothing really to hold on to. I politely asked if anyone would give up their seat for him. I maintain that New Yorkers are generally quite helpful once you draw their attention to things. Indeed more than one person jumped up. But the man refused the offer, seemed insulted, and then I felt dumb for interfering.

The second incident happened crossing 14th street on a treacherous sheet of ice. Again, an elderly woman was making her way across and I offered her my arm. She was like the stereotypical angry old woman who probably would've hit me with her cane if she had one.

And then I thought of myself and all the times men tried to help me with my luggage in the overhead compartment on airplanes. I generally politely say "I've got it, thanks" because I really do have it--I work out, I have strong arms, sometimes I'm sure I'm stronger than they are, and as an independent woman I guess I take a little too much pride sometimes in my ability to take care of myself. On occasion I may have even given them a look (and regretted it) like, "what, do I look helpless to you?" if I'm in one of those moods but mostly I try to be polite.

So I've learned that generally when people need help they'll ask for it and if they don't, I don't usually offer anymore. Once in awhile I will and people seem thankful for it but I'm more discriminating about it.

 

[Irvine511]

it's interesting ... with my friends and i, especially now that we are starting to do thing like gradute from law school and make passable salaries and get married, it's almost like a competition to see who can be more polite, more mannered, more socially adept.

 

[U2democrat]

i make sure to say thank you whenever I can but it pisses me off because my mom assumes that I won't say "thank you" to someone and she still to this day says to me "what do you say?" before i even get the chance to say thank you

/endrant

Anyway, I don't believe manners are dead. People on my campus are generally very polite, hold doors open for people, say thank you when they do, etc.

 

[nbcrusader]

I think maybe it is a symptom of a lack of human contact and connection, it seems sometimes like people don't even want that anymore. Technology can be dehumanizing to a certain extent, and sometimes we want to block people out with it. Sometimes I do.

Perhaps our fascination with technology results in a lack of human contact. In prior generations, high school students would hang out together for social time.

Now, kids race home and engage in IM conversations with their friends (even if they are neighbors). Conservation gets reduced to sentence fragments and non-verbal communication is completely lost.

 

[nbcrusader]

Speaking of technology and manners....

"Ur dumped" -- research shows text a popular way of ending romances

Breaking up is supposed to be hard to do, but young Australian couples have found an easy solution - send a text message and move on.

Research shows young romantics are increasingly using SMS text messages to manage, and even end, their relationships.

Macquarie University researcher Natalie Robinson studied the texting habits of 100 young people aged 18-35 and found SMS messaging increased when relationships were beginning or going through a rocky period.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I saw that article nbc and thought the exact same thing, that's a good example of technology and manners

For me communicating via e-mail or other online ways is much easier than it is in person, it eliminates certain self conscious aspects..and I don't feel as awkward or shy about communicating certain things.

But some things are always communicated much better face to face, aside from the obvious

 

[nbcrusader]

I think some here would behave differently if we were talking face to face. The anonymity of on-line discussions gives license for more outrageous behavior, testing the bounds of civility.

Excellent thread MrsSpringsteen.

 

[hiphop]

Manners are a simple way of (i) showing care for the people around you and/or (ii) trying to minimize the burdens of your own behavior (however minor) on other people. I see the apparent loss of manners is probably a symptom of a larger problem. We have grown into a far more selfish society than our prior generations, with consumption being a much higher priority than ever.

I also see the idea of community eroding in many places.

Very true.

 

[Snowlock]

Manners are a by product of morals. As one goes, so does the other. We're dealing now with the third, sometimes fourth generation after the Great Generation. The baby boomers rebelled in every way against the establishment. Their kids became the Me generation of the 80's. Those kids became the PC generation of the 90's. And now with the next gen we're wondering what's happened?

To the person with the knife story? You couldn't at least have called the police?

 

[diamond]

i think it somehow all stems back to being GW's fault


:verysexywank:

db9

 

[Irvine511]

i think it somehow all stems back to being GW's fault


:verysexywank:

db9

well, if we look at how he slimed McCain in the South Carolina 2000 primary all the way through the Swift Boat Liars ... he certainly isn't helping things.

 

[BonosSaint]

Couldn't I have called the police? Not quite as easy as it would be now. It was prior to cell phones (not that I own one now) and he was out of the store within 60 seconds. The owner wasn't hurt and yes, you're right I should have called the police. But to be honest, even if I could, I was startled. So although no damage was done, I totally absconded from my responsibilities. Just thought about getting out of there. I was exactly that person I criticize.

 

[XHendrix24]

Ah, the one thing the South's generally pretty good about.

 

[yolland]

Ah, the one thing the South's generally pretty good about.

Too true. When I was sixteen my father died and my family moved from Itta Bena, MS to Brooklyn which...well, words still fail to describe that culture shock!

On the other hand, there's the paradoxical fact that the South is the one region where you can count on folks to tell you to your face if they frankly don't want your kind around...yet, I have had several hysterically, if bleakly funny conversations with Southern black friends over the years about the perverse nostalgia one can develop for that kind of forthrightness...

We have a family from New Orleans staying in our house right now, through a local relief program, until they get on their feet financially...the mom and dad are both native Southerners and I find that tie really helps, despite my certified moron status on the social IQ front... :insert imaginary "dunce" smilie here: Not a problem the rest of my family have, fortunately!

*************************
Totally agree with nb about the erosion of community and the submission to consumerism. As a parent, I am struck all the time by how much WORK it is to cultivate a sense of obligation and goodwill towards others in one's children, and how many perfectly good and decent people (who are also parents) let that responsibility slide because they are just too tired, or too busy, or too distracted by an admittedly larger load of woes than my parents generally had to deal with. I think the "cocoon" analogy is very apt--I think we also too often give in to establishing (often with consumerism's "help") a separate "cocoon" within the family one to relegate the kids to, rather than (again) doing the work of integrating them into the groups and projects we as adults are part of.

While I agree that the growing digitization of everything can be another obstacle, I also like to think that it provides us interesting opportunities to practice the art of communication in contexts where body language, intonation and the like are not there as guides to help us "read" other people's intentions and perspectives. At least I like to think that's what I'm trying to do here :insert imaginary "dunce" smilie again: ....

 

[Kristie]

manners seem to be on the way out, I think

I live in a graduate dorm, so it's full of people in their early 20s and most of them are international students... so I don't think this is just in the US.

We have to share a bathroom and a kitchen and people leave both rooms in appalling condition... they don't clean up after themselves, leave food all over the counter and sink and then I come in and I'm supposed to wash my dishes there? Same with the bathroom, people wash their dishes in the sinks for some unknown reason and leave noodles and food (not to mention hair and toothpaste) all over and I'm supposed to brush my teeth in there?

It's everywhere, I can't believe people... in the supermarket, on the road, deliberately swerving to drive through a puddle when a pedestrian is going by, playing obscenely loud music while driving through a quiet neighborhood at 3am...
another one that especially gets me is people that talk on their cell phones while they're checking out at a store. Or, on the flip side, cashiers chatting away with their friends while ringing up your stuff.

I think anybody who works in retail (and probably food service) for any length of time will say that rudeness coming from customers is at an unacceptable level.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Reminds me of when I used to live in New York when I went to college. Stopped into a deli while one man pulled a knife on the owner. I stepped out quickly--coward that I was and was waiting on the corner for the light to change. The man holding the knife was suddenly behind me and I froze. When the light changed, he very politely said "Excuse me" before he passed me and crossed the street. A well brought up criminal. His mother would have been proud.

Odd story-be interesting to see why he reacted so differently in both situations (*Sees effects of sociology class are still stuck in her brain *). And yolland, very interesting point about studying communication without those obvious things around. That would be fascinating.

For me communicating via e-mail or other online ways is much easier than it is in person, it eliminates certain self conscious aspects..and I don't feel as awkward or shy about communicating certain things.

But some things are always communicated much better face to face, aside from the obvious

. There are benefits and drawbacks to both types of communication, it's all a matter of balancing the two .

As for manners...eh, I don't know if they're necessarily on the way out-I'm willing to bet everyone has moments where they forget their manners, and moments where they don't. In the area I live in, overall, people's manners here are generally still intact. There's a few exceptions (namely in my English and math classes, when the kids are talking when the teacher is, or skimp out on the work we're doing in the class itself that day, or something, which has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time...), but overall, it's not too bad. I think it just depends on where you live-some areas, it's not so common to practice your manners, other areas, it is. As long as you yourself do your best to practice your manners, then they're not fully dead, and some people may catch on .

I myself try as often as possible to say thanks and hold doors open for people and all that, but there've been times when I will definitely admit to forgetting my manners, too. Like with sending thank you notes to family members-I'm horrible at remembering to do that . That's not to say that I don't appreciate what has been sent to me, though, 'cause I do.

Angela

 

[wizard2c]

reply

They can't see outside their own little self-made worlds....self-satisfaction.....lack of respect for others and the world around them.

People with cell-phones don't bother me at all.....I telecommunicate so when I talk to myself in the distant future.....{well they don't even realize I'm not even holding a phone}....

I doubt manners, politeness, respect will ever return....it's difficult to unlearn what already is.....

 

[For Honor]

I do agree w/ the "sense of entitlement " aspect of why teenagers (it's adults too though) are rude. The attitude seems to be "I deserve this, I want it now" and the heck w/ any consideration for others.

Thank you and you're welcome are tough enough to get to hear , never mind notes, etc.

I feel a little scared about my generation in that regard.....

I wonder what they will do in the future...?



I like courtesy and manners quite a bit...

 

[For Honor]

Speaking of technology and manners....

"Ur dumped" -- research shows text a popular way of ending romances

"Breaking up is supposed to be hard to do, but young Australian couples have found an easy solution - send a text message and move on.

Research shows young romantics are increasingly using SMS text messages to manage, and even end, their relationships.

Macquarie University researcher Natalie Robinson studied the texting habits of 100 young people aged 18-35 and found SMS messaging increased when relationships were beginning or going through a rocky period. "



...............



I'm seriously worried, everyone, that people are losing site of what love is.....

Or maybe it's just me. ......................
........

eh, nevermind.......

 

[Golightly Grrl]

i make sure to say thank you whenever I can but it pisses me off because my mom assumes that I won't say "thank you" to someone and she still to this day says to me "what do you say?" before i even get the chance to say thank you

/endrant

Anyway, I don't believe manners are dead. People on my campus are generally very polite, hold doors open for people, say thank you when they do, etc.

If it makes you feel any better, I was nearly thirty before my mom stopped trying to hold my hand when we crossed the street.

Many of my friends (and myself) grew up in homes where both parents worked, where money was tight, or where the parents were divorced, and yet they still managed to teach us manners and good graces. Today, I'm very discreet when on the cell phone, I say "please" and "thank you", I dress properly in the office, and I even send out hand-written thank you notes.

Sadly, I don't think parents are instilling the need for manners in their children. I used to work in retail and the worst, most rudest customers were parents and their little brats. They had a huge sense of entitlement and treated me and my staff like lowly servants. My friend works as a director at a local children's museum and is fed up with the "North Shore Nancies" and their obnoxious kids.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I used to work in retail and the worst, most rudest customers were parents and their little brats. They had a huge sense of entitlement and treated me and my staff like lowly servants.

You and my mom could swap stories-the stuff she's told me about some of the customers who come into her store.... It's amazing, pathetic, and sad how rude some people can be.

Angela

 

[Sue DeNym]

I think anybody who works in retail (and probably food service) for any length of time will say that rudeness coming from customers is at an unacceptable level.

I used to work in retail and the worst, most rudest customers were parents and their little brats. They had a huge sense of entitlement and treated me and my staff like lowly servants.

You are both totally right, and it's everywhere. www.customerssuck.com has stories from customer service workers from all over the world about rude, slobby, even physically violent customers.

I believe those stories, too, because as a former retail worker, I've lived through many of them. And people are only getting worse.

 

[verte76]

Ah, the one thing the South's generally pretty good about.

Generally speaking, yes. That doesn't mean there's no rudeness here. Sometimes I can be pretty darn rude myself. But we've done a pretty good job of maintaining a sense of community and continuity with tradition. Every Sunday at church two men hold the doors of the church open for everyone until the last person is out.