Apartheid alive and well under a different name

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Is this new?

I guess the caste system is a human creation based on beliefs in reincarnation and karma. If we all have karma and can go up and down on a scale, why not formalize the scale with a caste system.
 
nbcrusader said:
Is this new?
Click to expand...

The story is new today. I guess I was shocked that the system is enforced to the extent that it apparently it still is.
 
The caste system: may I ask if this is an excuse to mistreat those who are less fortunate?
 
cardosino said:
The story is new today. I guess I was shocked that the system is enforced to the extent that it apparently it still is.
Click to expand...

I have a good friend who started a ministry to provide clean drinking water to the untouchables. The caste system is alive and well.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
The caste system: may I ask if this is an excuse to mistreat those who are less fortunate?
Click to expand...

It certainly would appear that way, I'd like to hear from any Hindus what they think.
 
Yes, the caste system is alive and well. It's one of my pet peeves. That is why so many Hindus converted to Islam when the Muslims invaded India, they could just say to hell with the caste system because Islam is egalitarian at the core. It was certainly not all coercion, trust me, many "untouchables" were pleased as punch to become "equals".
 
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A good website to visit is called Dalitnetwork.org (IIRC). It is a Christian organization that is working with Indian politicians to allow for equal treatment of the Dalits-social, political, spiritual equality. There are between 250-300 million Dalits , most of whom are illiterate and poverty-stricken, especially the women. I would not have known about the Dalits if it were not for the alternative-folk group Caedmon's Call who are currently touring right now to raise awareness of their plight.
 
To bring equality to India would be a huge achievement. I didn't expect to hear anything today on FYM about Caedmon's Call (they've covered "In God's Country" fyi) today, but that is good news. I hope that only the best will come out of this.
 
There are beliefs, customs in cultures that are taught from birth.

I cannot defend or probably really understand it.

Of course it is wrong.
We have our "untouchables" here in America. Where I live in the affluent OC, I believe undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits.
 
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nbcrusader said:
Is this new?

I guess the caste system is a human creation based on beliefs in reincarnation and karma. If we all have karma and can go up and down on a scale, why not formalize the scale with a caste system.
Click to expand...


So Christian countries don't have class systems?
 
financeguy said:



So Christian countries don't have class systems?
Click to expand...

We have our "untouchables" here in America.
undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits by many.
 
deep said:
We have our "untouchables" here in America.
undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits by many.
Click to expand...

Are they Dalits when you hire them? What is the basis for this statement?
 
Well Ireland is nominally a Christian country, or used to be, but I would still consider it difficult, although not impossible, for someone born in impoverished circumstances to make something of their lives. I don't really have a definition of a Christian country to be honest.
 
deep said:


We have our "untouchables" here in America.
undocumented workers, illegal aliens, homeless are considered the Dalits by many.
Click to expand...

But they're not institnalized as such, I'm no expert in the Hindu caste system but that appears to be institutional, much as apartheid was.
 
It is not, per se, institutionalized in America.

It is not exactly the same.


But we do- to an extend, have a caste system.

I believe Dalits are left to do the undesirable work, much as the undocumented workers do in America.

Yes they do work for me,
and I have given my treatment of them a lot of thought.

I always pay them what ever they ask, often a bit more.
I offer them water and soft drinks and let them use bathrooms on my properties, this may seem odd but they expect to be denied access to them.

Their cheap labor is a boon to me.
And all my friends that take advantage, some while railing against illegals.
 
deep said:
I believe Dalits are left to do the undesirable work, much as the undocumented workers do in America.
Click to expand...

Are they Dalits in their home countries, or when they elect to come here looking for the jobs offered to them?
 
deep said:
It is not, per se, institutionalized in America.

It is not exactly the same.


But we do- to an extend, have a caste system.
Click to expand...

Not really, undocumented workers, illegals, whatever you want to call them come here of their own free will.

If they couldn't get in, the work would go to non-illegal workers, costs would go up, and we would pay more for our wine and food. I for one would be willign to do that, fewer people on welfare, more people paying income taxes, more money staying in the country as opposed to being sent back "home".
 
cardosino said:


Not really, undocumented workers, illegals, whatever you want to call them come here of their own free will.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how this matters, really. It seems perilously close to saying that whatever poor treatment they experience they bring upon themselves.
 
The caste system is illegal in India...it was abolished in the '50s.

But like many historical/cultural beliefs held for thousands of years by a group of peoples (such as "ritual killings" of women), it's hard for governments to completely stamp them out.

I believe the Indian government has tried hard through land reform, education reform and public sector employment practices to bridge the caste divide, but it hasn't really been very successful.
 
strannix said:


I'm not sure how this matters, really. It seems perilously close to saying that whatever poor treatment they experience they bring upon themselves.
Click to expand...

Well, if you knew that sticking your hand in a fire was going to burn you would you do it ?

There is no shortage of info flowing back and forward across the border as to what to expect, no that doesn't excuse people from mistreatment, but illegals do come in here with their eyes wide open, many risk death to do so.
 
In comparing the caste system to other society's views of class systems it is much different. When the British came to India during the 19th century there was much confusion about the caste system. To fully appreciate the caste system one must step away from European definitions and look at the system as a whole, including the religious beliefs that are an integral part of it. To the British, viewing the caste system from the outside and on a very superficial level, it appeared to be a unmovable system of social ordering that allowed the Brahmins, or the highest jati, to maintain their power over the other classes.

What the British failed to realize at the time was that Hindus existed in a different cosmological frame than they did. It wasn't really about social ranking. The concern of the true Hindu was not his ranking economically but rather his ability to regenerate on a higher plane of existence during each successive lifetime.

So comparisions are kind of difficult to make between what someone called earlier a Christian state of classes...they are foundationally different. One is social and the other has spiritual issues behind it...

My father has lived in India for the past five years and I have been there myself twice.... India still is a ways off depsite the modern governments efforts....
 
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