Anybody else have a moral problem with pirated software?

[martha]

'Cause I do. I called this Mac consultant because I've been wanting to really get into my computer. I know that it can do so much more than write a term paper or post on Interference. And, this past week, my Netscape crapped out on me. I can't easily access my email, and I can't easily get to a lot of my bookmarks. It's a pain in the ass to switch everything over to IE. The story is longer, but you don't care. ANYWAY, I called this guy, and he starts telling me what he can do for me, and how much it costs, and I'm cool with everything, and then he starts telling me about the upgrades and other programs he provides on a cd for cheap. And I'm thinking hmmm...something doesn't sound right. So I ask him if he's got licenses for all these. Why no, but it's a "service" he offers. He "respects people who have a moral problem" with "this kind of thing," never saying the words "pirated software." Then goes on to tell me that he only mentioned it because so many people want it. He didn't actually say the words "everyone else is doing it," but it was the same effect.

I have a problem with this!!! Now, I've decided to not "buy" the software he's selling, but I think his whole two hour minimum is based on installing this shit. Plus, I don't think I want to do business with a guy that is so willing to steal.

I guess I've decided, so thanks for listening.

 

[OzAurora]

I have absolutely no problem with using pirated software and do not think of it as being a form of 'stealing', if you were to steal from the poor, ok then this is stealing but to use software that is so easily pirated from a company who are worth millions, more fool them I think.....Now when I was a university student studying graphic design we used all of the Adobe software like Illustrator and Photoshop and if I had gone out and bought the legit software it would of cost me literaly thousands of dollars, which was simply money that I would never have had as I was a poor student.....now I respect that I was probably 'stealing' the people who designed these programs intellectual property, but hey why the heck do they have to make these programs so bloody expensive? If I could afford to buy legit copies I would, but I will never have the money to justify spending a thousand dollars for a graphics program that I can get for free off a friend,,,,anyway my .02 cents

 

[Zooropa]

I have absolutely no problem with using pirated software and do not think of it as being a form of 'stealing', if you were to steal from the poor, ok then this is stealing but to use software that is so easily pirated from a company who are worth millions, more fool them I think.....Now when I was a university student studying graphic design we used all of the Adobe software like Illustrator and Photoshop and if I had gone out and bought the legit software it would of cost me literaly thousands of dollars, which was simply money that I would never have had as I was a poor student.....now I respect that I was probably 'stealing' the people who designed these programs intellectual property, but hey why the heck do they have to make these programs so bloody expensive? If I could afford to buy legit copies I would, but I will never have the money to justify spending a thousand dollars for a graphics program that I can get for free off a friend,,,,anyway my .02 cents

I completely agree!!!

 

[elevatedmole]

I have absolutely no problem with using pirated software and do not think of it as being a form of 'stealing', if you were to steal from the poor, ok then this is stealing but to use software that is so easily pirated from a company who are worth millions, more fool them I think.....Now when I was a university student studying graphic design we used all of the Adobe software like Illustrator and Photoshop and if I had gone out and bought the legit software it would of cost me literaly thousands of dollars, which was simply money that I would never have had as I was a poor student.....now I respect that I was probably 'stealing' the people who designed these programs intellectual property, but hey why the heck do they have to make these programs so bloody expensive? If I could afford to buy legit copies I would, but I will never have the money to justify spending a thousand dollars for a graphics program that I can get for free off a friend,,,,anyway my .02 cents

I do the exact same thing.

In the case of my (current) graphics program, I got it from my father's company who was upgrading to Adobe 6.0, and they were throwing out their Adobe 5.5, so why not use it? Before I got Adobe, I used cracks I downloaded to use trial-only programs for as long as I wanted, and it worked great.

In most cases, if I have the money or I think it is REALLY worth it, I'll buy it, but I pretty much don't buy pirated software or bootlegs.

 

[Popmartijn]

I'm planning to migrate my system to Linux (well, after I've finished my final thesis, which will be at the end of this year if it goes in the same tempo), so I will not have these piracy concerns again. Why not? Well, almost everything on Linux is free (as in beer)!

But regarding software piracy, I have a dual feeling about it. No, it's not right to just copy a program without paying for it (and if the BSA (Business Software Alliance) finds out about it you'll have to pay a huge fine above the licensing costs). But... the EULA's (End User License Agreement) of many software applications are so ridiculous. If you ever have much time on your hands, try to read them. Basically, the license says that you cannot do anything with the program (only install it at one computer, no network use unless you have enough licenses for it, no guarantee or warantee, etc.). And now with Microsoft introducing their new License 6.0 agreement (which basically says that you don't have ownership on the software you bought, you just licensed it for a year, so you have to pay license costs every year (although you do get further updates for free)), I'd say to many software companies "Shove the shit up your ..."

Just my rant

Marty

 

[Lemonite]

I have absolutely no problem with using pirated software and do not think of it as being a form of 'stealing', if you were to steal from the poor, ok then this is stealing but to use software that is so easily pirated from a company who are worth millions, .02 cents

You know, you always wonder what people's motivations are for various things.. (Tax Increases Come To Mind).. but they never truly say it.. I'm still kinda confused I even read this.. OZ?.. Are you joking us here with this statement?.. But i'm sure it's just me who is disgusted by this statement.

Anyways, On to Pirated software.. I don't sweat popping a disc in that's not mine.. There was a funny story about one of my friends in college.. back when pod racer was big, I tried to get it off him to copy.. I know.. i blew all discretion.. but he wouldn't allow me.. 'Because He will be working for Lucas Arts in teh Future (possibly.. it was like a 1 in 100 chance), and He felt dishonorable in stealing from his own company. So I just said I just wanna play it.. not copy it.. in a correction.. and he gave it to me (To Play and Delete).. Hahahah..

L.Unplugged

 

[martha]

And now with Microsoft introducing their new License 6.0 agreement (which basically says that you don't have ownership on the software you bought, you just licensed it for a year, so you have to pay license costs every year (although you do get further updates for free))

Which is why I love my Mac. It allows me to have as little to do with Microsoft as possible. It even bugs me to have to use IE until I get my Netscape to work.

It surprises me that so many people would willingly steal!

 

[Popmartijn]

Which is why I love my Mac. It allows me to have as little to do with Microsoft as possible. It even bugs me to have to use IE until I get my Netscape to work.

You can try out Mozilla ( http://www.mozilla.org ). This is a browser on which Netscape has based its browser. They have a Mac version (about a 10 Mb download), so you might give it a chance.

One warning though, do not use an identical profile as the one you use on Netscape.

C ya!

Marty

 

[martha]

I'm such a big, fat chicken! A roaster, even. I called the guy back to tell him no thanks, and all I said was I've decided to wait, which was part of the problem. I said nothing about the software issue.


Bok. Bok. Bok.

 

[Squid]

I'm planning to migrate my system to Linux

You can try out Mozilla

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

I have a problem with it. It is definitely "stealing." OzAurora, I would say that stealing is not defined by the relative wealth of the person robbed, or the ease of the robbery. If that's what you believe, then when you step off the train in Rome and some kid picks your pocket, you weren't robbed.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'm sure it's wrong. And I still do it. And I don't have a qualm about it. I will choose to blame it on the culture I grew up in. In Indonesia, there is no such thing as copyright laws...or if there are, they are certainly not enforced. Half the stuff I ever bought there was pirated; you couldn't GET the originals even if you wanted to. So for what it's worth...no, I don't have a problem with it even though I should. Geez, that felt like a zoo confessional.

 

[Vorsprung]

Not a problem at all. I need or want the software but I also need/want the money......oh yes.... I am criminal.
Same goes with music. I'm not gonna pay Euro 22,- for a CD when I can get or compile one for just one Euro. Except one U2 bootleg I haven't bought any cd since ATYCLB, only a little vinyl stuff. Yes, the music industry hates guys like me, and i know it might not be right, but as long as they're saying they're working on strategies to reduce piracy and all I see is just them raising the prices I probably won't take them seriously anyway.

 

[Diogenes]

MAC = Microsoft Aquired Company

Which is why I love my Mac. It allows me to have as little to do with Microsoft as possible. It even bugs me to have to use IE until I get my Netscape to work.

It surprises me that so many people would willingly steal!

--note title of reply--


Actually, Mircosoft owns a large, very large, part of Apple computers. But they keep it hush hush because they want to get money from the sales of people who are "screwing Bill Gates". Really funny actually, he's got quite the monopoly going for himself. But I don't blame him, it's not like he's charging outragous prices for his products, and they are quality (for the most part).

As far as pirated software goes.. ya, I do it, you got a problem!

 

[melon]

The entire consumer culture is in shambles. Ever notice how anything worth anything in America requires a bank loan now? Houses...cars...college... And the software industry wonders why no one wants to pay top dollar for software? We don't have money for something so seemingly nonessential. The software industry needs to delinate between corporate consumers, who can afford top dollar and make money using the software, and private consumers, who generally can't afford top dollar and don't profit off of the software anyway.

Melon

 

[brettig]

What melon said...oh and id also suggest to people, SHOP AROUND as much as you can...Ive been able to find places selling stuff perfectly legally but miles cheaper than anywhere else, little stores with lots of regular customers to keep them going.

 

[new orleans]

Pirated Software

I completely agree!!!

I also AGREE!! Feeling guilty over that is a bit much.

 

[U2Bama]

I agree with Martha and Spiral_Staircase, and I agree with the remedies offered up by Melon and brettig.

Despite what many of you may think, a lot of software out there was researched and developed by individuals whop put a lot of time and effort into it. They created it to sell to you as a service/product. It is THEIR work product, it is not something for you to photocopy. And some of it is made by small, local companies who truly depend on licensed sales for their income.

And another thing about this guy that Martha is dealing with: he offers to pass along theses extras for "cheap;" well, it sounds like he is charging something for pirated software, and that really crosses the line.

Where does this theory come from that stealing is only wrong if the victim is below a certain economic factor? For that matter, if a "wealthy" person or company is burglarized, should they be prohibited from reporting it to the police and filing charges?

I feel the same way about music; sure, I will trade live shows and commercially unavailable recordings for no monetary gain, but this is only for bands who approve of such practices. I will never sell such recordings. When a band puts out a new studio album in the retail sector, you are supposed to go to the music store and buy it if you want it. believe it or not, the artists DO get money off of each unit sold. I agree with Metallica on that whole front (though I do think the "industry" has increased prices too much; $18.98 for a new release is ridiculous- not that that is reason to steal it). Keep in mind that I have written music before and I consider it my artistic product, much as a software programmer should consider his/her software to be his/her work product.

~U2Alabama

 

[Lilly]

hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.

 

[U2Bama]

hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.

only for bands who approve of such practices.

 

[new orleans]

cd

What melon said...oh and id also suggest to people, SHOP AROUND as much as you can...Ive been able to find places selling stuff perfectly legally but miles cheaper than anywhere else, little stores with lots of regular customers to keep them going.

My words but a whisper your deafness a shout.

 

[martha]

hath ye a moral problem with bootlegs? or burning music cds? same diff imo.

Bootlegs are different than pirated stuff. Bootlegs are material which was never intended to be sold in the first place. Pirated stuff is a copy of the item that was sold. I expect to be paid for my work, and I expect to pay others for their work. No, I wouldn't buy a pirated copy of a cd, but I have no qualms about bootlegs.

 

[OzAurora]

To all of those who have been dissing my initial reply to this thread, well it is all very well for you to have your opinions but let me ask you have you ever borrowed a tape, album or cd from a friend and recorded it???, have you ever taped a television show onto a videotape?? have you ever taped a song from the radio and do you have any mp3s on your computer?????? in my opinion this is all the same to some degree and like I said initially I would have no problem in paying for un-pirated software if it were cheaper, but hell no am I going to pay 500 bucks for office and add to Gates' empire when I can get a copy for free and sorry but I do see a difference in the notion of breaking into ones house and stealing all of their personal belongings compared to using pirated software, these are two very different forms of 'stealing' in my opinion and again just my two cents

 

[Achtung Bubba]

To all of those who have been dissing my initial reply to this thread, well it is all very well for you to have your opinions but let me ask you have you ever borrowed a tape, album or cd from a friend and recorded it???, have you ever taped a television show onto a videotape?? have you ever taped a song from the radio and do you have any mp3s on your computer??????

There is a bit of a difference between what you list here and what happens with Napster and its many clones: in the legal parlance, it's called "fair use." In reality, it comes down to sheer numbers.

Pirated software/music (particularly through file-sharing systems) does not reduce to "letting a friend copy an album" but letting 50,000 friends copy an album. The details matter: it's one thing to let a friend borrow an album (one copy used by several people), another to let a friend copy an album (several copies used by several), and quite another indeed to put the album on a file-sharing system (THOUSANDS of copies used by THOUSANDS).

The first clearly falls under fair use, the second probably does, the third most certainly does not.

In a strict sense, all three cases can be considered stealing, but the first two seem minor by comparison: misdeamenors instead of grand theft. I know of no reasonable individual who will say that the third case is no worse than the first two.

The third case is like buying a pay-per-view event and airing it in a football stadium. Any sensible individual can see it is THEFT.

in my opinion this is all the same to some degree and like I said initially I would have no problem in paying for un-pirated software if it were cheaper, but hell no am I going to pay 500 bucks for office and add to Gates' empire when I can get a copy for free and sorry but I do see a difference in the notion of breaking into ones house and stealing all of their personal belongings compared to using pirated software, these are two very different forms of 'stealing' in my opinion and again just my two cents

If it were cheaper... if it were cheaper...

You know, if Ferrari's were cheaper, I'd consider buying one. As it is, I can't afford one, so - LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD - I do without.

Frankly, I don't see where the differences between B+E (breaking and entering) and pirating software ACTUALLY matter. They're not two different forms of "stealing" (in quotes). They are two different froms of STEALING, THEFT, BURGALRY - both immoral, and in both cases impermissible.

Of course, you're probably not in the music industry or in the software industry (I AM in software, by the way), so what the fuck do you care? You don't get hurt, so it's not immoral, right?

 

[Lemonite]

OzAurora... You've just been Bubba'd.

L.Unplugged

 

[kobayashi]

Of course, you're probably not in the music industry or in the software industry (I AM in software, by the way), so what the fuck do you care? You don't get hurt, so it's not immoral, right?

you are right bubba.

but she is in school. as i'm sure you're aware, but have not considered, school's require you to have certain facilities to carry out your work. though tuition and various fees are paid many schools do not provide such things as specific software, especially off campus to their students.

as i'm sure you're also aware many times the pressures of daily life for a student prevent the individual from spending all their time at school working on said project.

so the student is left with little choice.

it's deeper than the surface bubba. and yes it does suck for everybody. go bug the little kids ripping pc games.

 

[Lemonite]

as i'm sure you're also aware many times the pressures of daily life for a student prevent the individual from spending all their time at school working on said project.

Oh.. The Poor Student.. Many schools provide software on their 'Network' server or even have Computer Clusters for those who cannot afford computers..

Hahahah...
You have now made this thread into the good ol' medical ethics dilemma of the husband breaking into the Pharmacy to steal the drug his Wife needs to live through the night due to the fact that he is unable to pay for it. Sooo.. does that make stealing OK??? I refer you to Leon Mertensotto.

L.Unplugged

 

[pub crawler]

Must play devil's advocate to the "concert bootlegs are okay by me" people.

Why do you suppose it is that tapers feel the need to sneak their equipment into shows, even shows by bands that are reportedly/allegedly "bootleg friendly," such as U2?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that the shared file issue is probably not as clear cut as we'd like to believe.

 

[kobayashi]

Oh.. The Poor Student.. Many schools provide software on their 'Network' server or even have Computer Clusters for those who cannot afford computers..

Hahahah...
You have now made this thread into the good ol' medical ethics dilemma of the husband breaking into the Pharmacy to steal the drug his Wife needs to live through the night due to the fact that he is unable to pay for it. Sooo.. does that make stealing OK??? I refer you to Leon Mertensotto.

L.Unplugged

i think you missed the point L. yes the schools provide software on their 'Network' as you call it but this is not accessible off campus of course because the logistics of that many licenses being issued are unfathomable. if i wanted to use SPSS 10.1 i would have to go to school but my father bought me a genuine copy and i also use it every day at work. i am lucky.

i never implied that any of this made stealing ok. the point is that in some cases the person doing the 'stealing' is under undue pressure also and everyone does what they need to do. if you can't afford the software are you going to perform poorly or facilitate a good mark?

 

[Lemonite]

i think you missed the point L. yes the schools provide software on their 'Network' as you call it but this is not accessible off campus of course because the logistics of that many licenses being issued are unfathomable.

Yes.. my statement does not apply to people out of school.. On Campus or Off Campus you can get into most Software Reservoirs that Schools have with just your student ID and password from any internet connection wherever one may be located.. Hence my ability to check my ND.Edu Email address even though I'm not "On Campus" anymores.. but this is just clarification maybe.. If it's irrelevant, then just ignore..

L.Unplugged