Anti-americanism

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Dreadsox

ONE love, blood, life
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I read this quote today and I thought it might stir up some discussion.

It seems that people think that by challenging President Bush or America on things is Anti-American.

Read the quote and let the fun begin!!!!!


Peace to all!

"TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE MUST BE NO CRITICISM OF THE PRESIDENT, OR THAT WE ARE TO STAND BY THE PRESIDENT, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS NOT ONLY UNPATRIOTIC AND SERVILE, BUT IS MORALLY TREASONABLE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC." Theodore Roosevelt
 
sometimes i feel more american when i criticize bush because i know that my opinion counts as much as anyone's does. i am simply exercising my rights. i know i'm lucky enough to live in a country where i can say whatever i want about our government. if i didn't give a damn about my country i wouldn't even bother speaking up. i actually think it is more dangerous not to say anything. i also find it more than aggravating when people who disagree with the administration are called anti-american.
 
Screaming Flower said:
i also find it more than aggravating when people who disagree with the administration are called anti-american.

It does kind of put a damper on a discussion, when all of a sudden people say this. There are other labels that are thrown around that also prove nothing, and squash debates.
 
Dreadsox said:


It does kind of put a damper on a discussion, when all of a sudden people say this. There are other labels that are thrown around that also prove nothing, and squash debates.

i agree. i've had discussions like that and it that label really detracts from the actual argument. it's frustrating.
 
Screaming Flower said:
i also find it more than aggravating when people who disagree with the administration are called anti-american.
i agree. of course, i'm not naming names here since no one has ever called me that on the forums, but a friend of mine (stupid redneck bandwagon jumper. as of may 2001 she didn't have any intent to vote, now all of a sudden she loves the bin laden dartboards.) thinks i'm some horrible human being for thinking that, for example, a senator nominee called bob clement is also a bandwagon jumper because he always uses "one nation, under god" in all his speeches when it has nothing to do with anything.

i hate tennessee.
 
I was on the subway last week and saw a button on a woman's backpack that said "Dissent is patriotic." I think that sums this argument nicely. The whole point of including the First Amendment in our Constitution was to allow people a voice if they disagreed with the people in power like the presidents or, in the Founding Fathers' case, the King. They want us to speak up if we disagree. Like the button said, dissent is patriotic.
 
In my opinion, informed dissent is patriotic, uninformed dissent is not. Just as people find the use of "Anti-Americanism" thrown around in an unobjective way unacceptable, so to do people find some of the comments about Bush and his policies to be unobjective and uninformed.
 
"TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE MUST BE NO CRITICISM OF THE PRESIDENT, OR THAT WE ARE TO STAND BY THE PRESIDENT, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS NOT ONLY UNPATRIOTIC AND SERVILE, BUT IS MORALLY TREASONABLE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC." Theodore Roosevelt


TR also wrote this from the same book...

Read this, and let's continue the fun?....

"[M]y disagreement with the peace-at-any-price men, the ultrapacifists, is not in the least because they favor peace. I object to them, first, because they have proved themselves futile and impotent in working for peace, and second, because they commit what is not merely the capital error but the crime against morality of failing to uphold righteousness as the all-important end toward which we should strive ... I have as little sympathy for them as they have for the men who deify mere brutal force, who insist that power justifies wrongdoing, and who declare that there is no such thing as international morality. But the ultra-pacifists really play into the hands of these men. To condemn equally might which backs right and might which overthrows right is to render positive service to wrong-doers ... To denounce the nation that wages war in self-defense, or from a generous desire to relieve the oppressed, in the same terms in which we denounce war waged in a spirit of greed or wanton folly stands on a par with denouncing equally a murderer and the policeman who, at peril of his life and by force of arms, arrests the murderer. In each case the denunciation denotes not loftiness of soul but weakness both of mind and morals." - Theodore Roosevelt
 
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I love the quote. I do not have time to respond. He does seem to have a very intelligent grasp of the situation.

Peace to all.
 
Dreadsox said:
I read this quote today and I thought it might stir up some discussion.

It seems that people think that by challenging President Bush or America on things is Anti-American.

Read the quote and let the fun begin!!!!!


Peace to all!

"TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE MUST BE NO CRITICISM OF THE PRESIDENT, OR THAT WE ARE TO STAND BY THE PRESIDENT, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS NOT ONLY UNPATRIOTIC AND SERVILE, BUT IS MORALLY TREASONABLE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC." Theodore Roosevelt

Ooh, cool-I'm gonna use that quote on another message board I go to.

Yay, Theodore. Amen.

Pinkfloyd, I too am anti-war.

Angela
 
Dreadsox said:
It seems that people think that by challenging President Bush or America on things is Anti-American.

They are the ones who history forgets. They are the ones who stand by the side of the road while there is suffering and pain all over. The blind followers are like lemmings, and they control nothing. The ones who question and criticize when they see something wrong--they are the ones who control our destiny.
 
Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Foxxern said:
They are the ones who history forgets. They are the ones who stand by the side of the road while there is suffering and pain all over. The blind followers are like lemmings, and they control nothing. The ones who question and criticize when they see something wrong--they are the ones who control our destiny.

Yep, exactly.

I've had people tell me that by my criticizing our government or the way our country does something, I therefore do not love my country.

I beg to differ.

Someone who speaks out against injustices in their country does so because they don't want their country turning into a shambles-sounds like they love their country to me, because they are making sure anything bad that happens in their country comes to a halt and never happens again.

Angela
 
Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Foxxern said:

The blind followers are like lemmings, and they control nothing.

I do not wish to put words into your mouth. Are you saying that intelligent people cannot support the direction the president is taking the country? There are many people on these boards that are extremely intelligent and well versed on the issues of the day who support the policies of the president in some areas and do not in others.

I would say the Blind person is not the person who supports the president, nor would I say the blind person is the person opposed to the president. The BLIND person is the person who could care less about the decisions.
 
Re: Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Dreadsox said:
I would say the Blind person is not the person who supports the president, nor would I say the blind person is the person opposed to the president. The BLIND person is the person who could care less about the decisions.

I guess I should have clarified. I wasn't saying intelligent people don't support the president. But as long as you can back up your beliefs, you are not a blind follower. I was referring to those who support the president just because he is the president. He can be wrong too. Whether you believe he is right or wrong, there should be some evidence to back that up.
 
Jesus H Spaghettios! I can't believe how unAmerican all you people are! What in the hell? How can you say that failing to support our great president, the one we all elected, is patriotic! You're all a bunch of Saddam loving terrorist sympathizers!

Or not
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Foxxern said:

Whether you believe he is right or wrong, there should be some evidence to back that up.

I have been trying to teach this to fourth graders all week!!!!!Opinions are great, but you need facts to prove your point.

Peace to all!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Dreadsox said:


I have been trying to teach this to fourth graders all week!!!!!Opinions are great, but you need facts to prove your point.

Peace to all!

Agreed. The thing about that is, you can't always prove your point when you have a plan for something in the future. I disagree with the president's plan because I believe that it won't work, based on what I see as the problem. You agree with the president because you think it will fix what you see as the problem. It gets very hard to actually define what the problem is, especially because we're trying to generalize terror as the result of a single problem. There are many terror groups with many agendas. (Some of the terror groups tied to Islam hate each other almost as much as they hate their targets.) If we start to think there is just one problem that can be solved quickly, then I really feel that we are wrong.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-americanism

Dreadsox said:


I have been trying to teach this to fourth graders all week!!!!!Opinions are great, but you need facts to prove your point.

Peace to all!


:scratch: which 4th graders??? :wink:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-americanism

us3 said:



:scratch: which 4th graders??? :wink:

Haha!!! Well, I am trying to teach them that I can't mark their answers wrong if they are using facts to back up their opinions.

Which 4th graders....HAHA

Diamond are you there????hehe:wink:
 
The rise of Anti-americanism

Imho Anti-americanism is on the rise because of several things

- We miss "our" enemy the russians, without a common villain the western countries don't need the "big brother" anymore.

- Without "big evil" on the other side America can be more agressive in their politics than they used to be

so to compact it even more - egoism on both sides on the rise because we don't need each other as much anymore than we used to.

It would be great if our politicians would learn from history and try to treat other countries with more respect and understanding.

Klaus
 
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Re: The rise of Anti-americanism

Klaus said:


- We miss "our" enemy the russians, without a common villain the western countries don't need the "big brother" anymore.


Klaus

I can almost agree with this. It seems that the world operated on this level for so long, it does not know what to do with itself. If I may make an analogy:

Saddam was left in power after the last war to keep a balance of power in the Middle East with ie Iran. Without the Soviet Union, the balance of power is off.

Hmmmm....I need to think about htis some more.


Peace to all
 
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