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Old 10-03-2007, 12:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


His reckless behavior that was exposed and found to be true was a consensual sexual affair! This woman claims harassment, ergo any sexual encounter would have been non-consensual on her part. In a court of law it would've been a completely separate case. Clinton was impeached for perjury, not for having an affair with another person who entered into the relationship willingly. That's not illegal, it's immoral. You can't prosecute immorality in a court of law. What is so difficult to understand about that?
I'm pointing out that his continual womanizing, harrassing of women and perjurious testimony were all reckless, and led to his overall eventual dimise, unlike Judge Thomas.

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Old 10-03-2007, 12:32 PM   #22
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Originally posted by diamond


I'm pointing out that his continual womanizing, harrassing of women and perjurious testimony were all reckless, and led to his overall eventual dimise, unlike Judge Thomas.

dbs
Let's see, Clinton was not impeached by the Senate, thereby not losing his presidency. He left office with a 65% approval rating, higher than any president since World War II ended. He's continued to do good work throughout the world through CGI and is still loved and esteemed by many Americans as one of our best presidents. How does that equal "demise" to you, other than your own personal dislike of him?

I also just wanted to say, that although I don't agree with this statement, I now understand where you were coming from with the "reckless" point, so thank you for clearing that up.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:42 PM   #23
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


Let's see, Clinton was not impeached by the Senate, thereby not losing his presidency. He left office with a 65% approval rating, higher than any president since World War II ended. He's continued to do good work throughout the world through CGI and is still loved and esteemed by many Americans as one of our best presidents. How does that equal "demise" to you, other than your own personal dislike of him?
He was impeached by Congress also lost his law license in Ark, because of his recklessness.

That a person has the approval of the world, doesnt make him above reproach, some choose to look at a person's character, esp a world leader.

If you want to defend him because he has a high popularity rating, I find that rather sad, but you go ahead and knock yourself out.

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Old 10-03-2007, 12:52 PM   #24
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He was impeached by Congress also lost his law license in Ark, because of his recklessness.

That a person has the approval of the world, doesnt make him above reproach, some choose to look at a person's character, esp a world leader.

If you want to defend him because he has a high popularity rating, I find that rather sad, but you go ahead and knock yourself out.

dbs
Piety doesn't look good on anyone. Personally, I try never to judge someone by their approval from others. That, in itself, isn't worth shit to me. I personally believe that Clinton realized his mistake, fixed it, admitted it, and has moved on. He says he is right with God, and with his wife and daughter. That is enough for me. However, you used the word "demise". Maybe it was just our wires getting crossed, but that doesn't equate to the matters of a person's heart to me. Demise has always signalled a destruction of a person's career, family, and/or "outer" life, which includes approval from people. Maybe you have a different view, which is fine. Seeing, as I view the word differently, I felt that was you said was incorrect, based on the statistics I posted. Clinton's flaws and weaknesses, which I agree with you on, at least in terms of sexual behavior, may have damaged his heart and spirit, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a tremendous president (for those who agree with his policies) and that he is a brilliant, compassionate man who has done a lot of good in the world, even moreso since leaving office.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:55 PM   #25
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nevermind.

U2isthebest is quite holding her own here.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:58 PM   #26
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Originally posted by financeguy


Well, you single out Diamond for his alleged 'serious deficiency in critical thinking skills' but Mrs Springsteen's rush to judgement seemingly doesn't trouble you (refresh our memory there Mrs S, what court of law was Clarence Thomas convicted in?)

I just think it's interesting, and it shows the institutional bias on FYM yet again.
Why would her comment bother me? She is free to cast judgment on Thomas and on Clinton. This thread was about Thomas; she expressed her opinion. Is she supposed to include a preamble in which she declares similar opinions about Clinton, David Vitter and whoever else has a suspect sexual history??
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:03 PM   #27
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Originally posted by U2isthebest
[B Demise has always signalled a destruction of a person's career, family, and/or "outer" life, which includes approval from people. Maybe you have a different view, which is fine.

. Clinton's flaws and weaknesses, which I agree with you on, at least in terms of sexual behavior, may have damaged his heart and spirit, . [/B]
I think damaging your family is the very worse thing a person can do, paticularly, the leader of the free world.

That Bill Clinton has stated since leaving office that he sees his impeachment as a "badge of honor" doesn't bode well for a "repentant" person as you claim he is.

I do appreciate some of the humanitarian work Clinton has done since leaving office.

I do feel that he his quite cognizant of how he hopes his public perception appears which is sad, and since I've read some of your posts and recognize "Christian" leanings in them, this verse reminds me of Bill Clinton:

Matt 16:26:

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Am I condeming Bill Clinton? No.
Am I concerned about him a bit? Yes, but only a little, I have my own house to keep in order.

Cheers-

dbs
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:05 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Irvine511




no darling, he was impeached over purjury.
perjury.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:06 PM   #29
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Originally posted by diamond

wreckless


reckless.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:07 PM   #30
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oh he got me, i had corrected though in posts following that one, sweetpea
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I think damaging your family is the very worse thing a person can do, paticularly, the leader of the free world.

That Bill Clinton has stated since leaving office that he sees his impeachment as a "badge of honor" doesn't bode well for a "repentant" person as you claim he is.

I do appreciate some of the humanitarian work Clinton has done since leaving office.

I do feel that he his quite cognizant of how he hopes his public perception appears which is sad, and since you I've read some of your posts and recognize "Christian" leanings in them, this verse reminds me of Bill Clinton:

Matt 16:26:

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Am I condeming Bill Clinton? No.
Am I concerned about him a bit? Yes, but only a little, I have my own house to keep in order.

Cheers-

dbs
That's still his outer life. The state of his heart and soul have nothing to do with his family. Clearly his family has forgiven him and moved on. His life with his wife and daughter is still in tact, so I see no "demise" in that area. We can interpret what he means by calling his impeachment a "badge of honor" all day long, but I fail to see how that could lead to a conclusion of him being non-repentant. Clinton said he's repentant, and every action I've seen since then has backed it up. I don't know the state of his heart either, so I don't want to try and comment further. The Bible verse you quoted could be applied to any of us who have been blessed in life (and I would say that's pretty much all of us) and still manage to fuck it up (which we all do at some point) None of us are in position to cast judgement (not saying you are specifically, but many have) Bottom Line: Clinton had an affair, Clinton was wrong. Clinton apologized to his family, who forgave him and by his account to God, who forgives anyone who asks. His faults and secrets have been exposed and dealt with. He's a much freer man, than those of us in our self-righteous Christian club who are still hiding our dark secrets behind a mask of morality.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:16 PM   #32
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And I'd just like to point out how once again, the thread has become exclusively about Clinton.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:18 PM   #33
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Actually it segued into hypocrisy, and polictical agendas springled with religiosity.

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Old 10-03-2007, 01:22 PM   #34
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Actually it segued into hypocrisy, and polictical agendas springled with religiosity.

dbs
That didn't happen until Clinton was brought up. After that, everybody here was merely trying to point out that this case had nothing to do with the Lewinsky scandal. Harassment and perjury are apples and oranges; neither applies to the other here, so the Clinton debate never should have been brought up in the first place.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest





Clinton had an affair, Clinton was wrong.

Quote:
Clinton had an affair,
Point is Clinton had many affairs.

He claimed to be repentant in 1992, that is where a lot of people of faith have problems.

As most understand, Repent means to turn away..but he kept coming back.
His outer (public/professional) life and inner (family/own soul) both suffered due to these behaviors:

Womanizing, lying, interfering with due process of the law which he fought.

These private/public actions hurt his family and public performance, and when it began to unravel he was forced into repenting again- there is a difference in repenting the one who is caught, and is *forced* to repent because of public shame vs. a person who does so privately because he doesn't feel right with God.

Clinton was caught publicly and tried to smear Monica in the process-and was caught at that too.

The jury as to why Hilary has stuck with him, many believe it's for polictical power, time will tell.

In short, Clarence is no Bill Clinton.

Clarence has proved himself over time.

The Left is full of hyporisy for attempting to castigate Clarence while giving a real harrasser a free ride.

dbs
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:43 PM   #36
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Point is Clinton had many affairs.

He claimed to be repentant in 1992, that is where a lot of people of faith have problems.

As most understand, Repent means to turn away..but he kept coming back.
His outer (public/professional) life and inner (family/own soul) both suffered due to these behaviors:

Womanizing, lying, interfering with due process of the law which he fought.

These private/public actions hurt his family and public performance, and when it began to unravel he was forced into repenting again- there is a difference in repenting the one who is caught, and is *forced* to repent because of public shame vs. a person who does so because he doesn't feel right with God. Clinton was caught publicly and tried to smear monica in the process.

The jury as to why Hilary has stuck with him, many believe it's for polictical power, time will tell.

In short, Clarence was no Bill Clinton and has proved himself over time.

dbs
The only affairs that can be confirmed are the ones Clinton and the woman involved BOTH admitted to. Also, I don't care how many times someone fucks up if they admit it. Repent actually means to "re-think" from it's original translations. It's not this steely, down-on-my-knees- never do it again guilt trip we've turned it into in order to keep people humble and low. Since we're quoting The Bible here, what about the story of the woman caught in adultery. She was caught in bed with a man and dragged in front of all those in the temple to be stoned to death. She didn't come repenting because she felt guilty, she was about to be killed and she was begging for mercy. Jesus didn't care, he forgave her before she asked (and we have no record saying she ever outright asked) and told the self-righteous, judgemental assholes, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Those standing back tsk-ing their judgements at her were probably doing the same thing she was, or something else. Hence the reason they dropped their stones and left. Yes, she was told to "go and sin no more", but Jesus was not foolish enough to believe she would never struggle with that sin or any other again. If that was the case, than we would all stop any sin or imperfect behavior the minute we become Believers. The mere desire to try even if if someone messes up everyday is all that counts for me, and ultimately all that counts for God.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:50 PM   #37
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Originally posted by anitram
And I'd just like to point out how once again, the thread has become exclusively about Clinton.
Agreed. It's gone three pages now without the actual thread topic being discussed at all. If one can't defend Justice Thomas or critique Anita Hill without turning it into a thread about Bill Clinton, that doesn't say much for the merits of those arguments.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


someone fucks up .
Quote:
manage to fuck it up..
Do we really need the profanity in your posts? Why are you angry?

I'm not wanting to come across as a saint, for goodness sakes there are other words a person can choose.

Affairs/harrassing women-both are bad, and don't need to be proven if a person is truly repentant last time I checked.

I think Jesus knew the whole story of the adultress, her accusers and did tell her in the end to sin no more. Many lessons can be taken from that biblical story.

And as a believer yes one changes his or her heart, stops sinning paticularly a sin you were caught in.

But say a porn star who accepts Christ one day, claims he's repentant stops filming and sleeping around, then decides to cheat on his income tax, isn't truly repentant now is he,-that I hope we can agree on.

best,

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Old 10-03-2007, 02:00 PM   #39
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Do we really need the profanity in your posts? Why are you angry?

I'm not wanting to come across as a saint, for goodness sakes there are other words a person can choose.

Affairs/harrassing women-both are bad, and don't need to be proven if a person is truly repentant last time I checked.

I think Jesus knew the whole story of the adultress, her accusers and did tell her in the end to sin no more. Many lessons can be taken from that biblical story.

And as a believer yes one changes his or her heart, stops sinning paticularly a sin you were caught in.

But say a porn star who accepts Christ one day, claims he's repentant stops filming and sleeping around, then cheats on his income tax, isn't truly repentant-that I hope we can agree on .

best,

dbs
I'm not even continuing a debate with someone who's biggest problem is the language I choose to express myself in. Let's end it here. I'm a Christian, you're a Christian. You're Conservative. I'm Liberal. We will probably never agree on anything other than the base point of Christianity. I'm perfectly convinced of my own opinions, and they're no more right or wrong than yours.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:45 PM   #40
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perjury.
Should I start counting your misspellings?
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